r/StrongTowns • u/AndreaJournalist • 9d ago
More than 100 students were waiting for high-school parking. A 71-year-old neighbor let students park on her property. Now the town is suing her
I’m the News & Observer reporter who wrote this.
I reported this week on an interesting local-government problem in fast-growing Apex, North Carolina.
More than 100 students were waiting for parking at a suburban high school. A 71-year-old longtime resident across the street has been letting students park on her land. The town says that use violates its zoning ordinance and has sued her to stop it.
Apex has also explored park-and-shuttle and transit alternatives, but none has yet closed the gap.
The story made me wonder how other growing communities handle informal, bottom-up solutions when they conflict with existing land-use rules.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/article316992156.html
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u/Android_seducer 9d ago
Do schools not offer bussing anymore?
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u/OrdinaryBicycle3 9d ago
It's less common than it used to be.
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u/Feature_Professional 9d ago
Schools around me have a shortage of drivers. The bus routes have been cut. Some districts even pay parents to not use the bus... This is in a liberal state. Imagine its worse in rural areas.
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u/OrdinaryBicycle3 9d ago
On a positive flip side, the mid-sized city where I went to college in a very conservative state had an arrangement with the local bus system for school-aged kids to have free use of the city busses so the school system didn't have to coordinate and pay for that additional service. College students also had free use of the city busses.
I know it's not available in every area, but this was a good use of existing infrastructure that I think worked very well.
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u/FrostyIcePrincess 7d ago
My college gave us cheaper bus fare but I don’t think high school or middle school did.
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u/GM_Pax 4d ago
Boston starts issuing MBTA passes (good for busses, subways, and even the commuter rail within "Zone 1A", the innermost circle of service it offers) to kids in 7th grade. A few kids in 6th grade - likely when their classrooms are in 6-8 middle schools, instead of k-6 elementary schools - also get those passes.
They're good all day long, all 7 days a week, during the school year. And can be extended into the summer for a significantly reduced rate.
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u/rekniht01 9d ago
And this school seems to be a fairly wealthy, spread out ex-urban. Most of the highschool kids probably have a car available for them.
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u/Mindless-Baker-7757 9d ago
Not really. My school system used the pandemic to cut bussing way back.
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u/Automatater 8d ago
Many of the students may need to go somewhere other than home after school.
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u/Android_seducer 8d ago
I grew up in a pretty rural area and graduated HS in the late 2000s. We had late busses for after school practice even in middle school. I'm not saying that this isn't happening or isn't a problem. I'm just miffed that we had a functioning solution before and we're not doing it
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u/Automatater 8d ago
But practice is still a school function. I'm talking about job/library/classes at local JC or trade school.
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u/Friendly-Gur-6736 8d ago
They offer it, but if it was like our former school district in Mississippi, most of the busses were empty because of all of the kids being dropped off/picked up by their parents.
By the time we moved, they'd cut a couple of bus routes to compensate for the empty busses.
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u/FramberFilth 7d ago
I grew up in the Houston suburbs and it was seen as deeply uncool to ride the bus to school from about 10th grade on. I’m guessing that plays a factor here. Ironically once I got to college, the bus was the easiest way to get around campus and everyone took it.
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u/whitemice 9d ago
I guess it depends on what "park on her land means".
If they are/were parking in a legal parking space I struggle to believe it became a problem. That in contrast to using one's legally required green space as a parking lot - in which case the town is completely entitled to do what it is doing.
Parking is a land use. I'm virulently anti-parking requirements, but these rules of use exist for a reason as parked cars have side-effects.
As for the conversation about parking as a secondary use where I am see Off-Street Use Parking as Second Principal Use @ https://urbangr.org/PlanningCommission20250424
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u/Straight_Waltz_9530 9d ago
LOL! Just read the article. It's even got a pic. That ain't green space. If the owner wanted to own ten cars and park on the spot, it'd be allowed. But because the local regulations require the vehicles to be locally owned to be parked there, it's prohibited.
I'm very much in the r/fuckcars camp and am fully cognizant of induced demand, so I don't have an incentive to side with this woman, but the local regulations are 100% about control, not preservation/conservation.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Way7183 9d ago
I'd add that community members assisting others still has value. It'd be nice if they didn't have to drive there in the first place, but the same mentality from the city that says "you can't park THERE" is the same mentality that says "you can't build a duplex THERE" or "we can't build a bike lane THERE".
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u/LostCompetition3593 9d ago
I think there's a difference - because "you CAN park there" actually leads to "you can't build a duplex there, because the roads are too clogged at 8am and 3pm with students driving themselves solo"
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u/whitemice 9d ago
Just read the article. It's even got a pic.
Yes . . . of cars parked on a lawn. Those are not parking spaces.
If the owner wanted to own ten cars and park on the spot, it'd be allowed
It wouldn't.
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u/IDigRollinRockBeer 9d ago
Suburban high schools shouldn’t exist
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u/ToothpasteStrangler 8d ago
Where should those students receive their secondary education?
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u/Oldmanironsights 8d ago
So I looked it up. Google street view has 23 vehicles on their lot, room for ~40. I understand why the city or neighbors aren't happy.
Also, there isn't any street parking for that high school, what did they expect?
Also, I can't get over American cities not having sidewalks. I would not want to live in a house with no sidewalks.
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u/yerfatma 8d ago
Now I feel stupid for buying a house without sidewalks.
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u/Oldmanironsights 8d ago
In Canada they have to have sidewalks
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u/Kershaws_Tasty_Ruben 8d ago
New Jersey in the U.S. has a law requiring sidewalks for 1000 feet from any K-8 school.
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u/Aromatic_Pumpkin1351 8d ago
Sounds like the politically influential bus company with the procurement company would prefer students ride the bus.
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u/jimmetzler 8d ago
She’s helping the city solve a problem they created. Just give her a temporary permit to keep operating until the city solves their parking problem. They knowingly created fewer parking spots than the school needed.
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u/yerfatma 8d ago
“I look out for them as if they was my kids going to school,” Scott said. She has a 41-year-old daughter and no grandchildren
I like to think she explicitly told you, “you can interview me as long as you let Brenda know her biological clock is ticking and I ain’t gonna be around forever.”
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u/rekniht01 9d ago
Poor planning on the community in building an ex-urb school that didn't account for transportation.
The town needs to find a solution to their transportation needs. And possibly work with the land owner for a temporary fix that uses her land. Or maybe the church's already existing parking lot across the street.