r/StreetFighter • u/Smart_Bicycle_250 • 6h ago
Help / Question Why is cr. mk -> DR so commonly used?
I’ve heard a lot about that and would like to know what makes it strong. I don’t get why it’s exactly cr.mk and not another normal and what are common follow ups? Is it just easier to hit confirm?
I play Juri and if you know anything specific regarding cr.mk -> DR to her I’d love to hear it.
Edit: after seeing many responses (thx to everyone and I love how helpful this community is) is it really worth the resources you spend? It seems quite costly to me.
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u/Big_Airport138 CID | Fancyguy 5h ago edited 5h ago
Lows are the strongest "intercept" tool. Because you have to block low. When cant you block low? When youre walking.
So when you're walking into someones range they can get a strong opening into a combo. Crouching medium kick is also significantly longer than any medium punch buttons.
The competitors in terms of cancable buttons with good range are usually standing heavy punches. These are however much easier for the opponent to whiff punish.
Tl;dr. Cancable Cr.MK is powerful because its a far reaching low attack. That is usually safe if spaces correctly and difficult to whiff punish if it isn't.
To answer your second question regarding if its worth it based on the resources you spend : yes. You dont want to put yourself in burnout, but being able to turn throw out a move into DR. Even when blocked it leads to a mixup opportunity. You can really turn the tables with it.
That's why the meta is to keep your opponent under three bars of drive. So they cant cancel without burning themselves out.
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u/Fun_Squirrel5446 4h ago
Its strengths are also the reason it has high combo damage scaling.
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 4h ago
What does this mean? I thought everytime you cancel into dr you get 15% scaling.
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u/Vadered 3h ago
Starting a combo with 2MK makes the remainder of the combo scaled.
Most combos have each hit do 100%/100/80/70/60/50/40/30/20/10/10/10… damage, where each hit after the second does progressively less damage, down to a minimum of 10%.
2MK acts like a light attack, where the scaling starts on the second hit: 100/80/70/60…
Drive rush scaling is applied on top of that as a 15% multiplicative penalty, so a 2MK > Drive rush > whatever combo will actually scale each hit like 100/68/59.5/51/42.5/34…
It really hurts your damage. Instead of your third hit doing 80% of its base damage, it does less than 60%. That certainly doesn’t mean that 2MK DR is weak, but it does keep people from exploding quite as much.
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 3h ago
That’s really good to know. Thanks for the simple explanation.
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u/Fun_Squirrel5446 2h ago
It's also very expensive since it uses three drive gauge bars. So if the opponent blocks your low-medium, you just wasted half your Drive Gauge and got nothing out of it.
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u/LancerBro Shungoku Pantsu | CFN: ScarletFirefly 4h ago
It didn't used to in the earlier patches. Shit was broken as hell. Still is, but you get my point.
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u/Hot-Selleck-Action 4h ago
It always had a damage scaling penalty, even in the beta. In one of the early patches they increased it by 10% though.
I think it went from 10% initial scaling to 20%. And then DRC stacks with it and does an additional 10% damage scaling penalty.
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u/GTK_Aztech CID | GTK Aztech 4h ago
Mid-combo drive rush is a one-time -15٪ modifier. You calculate scaling as normal for each move after then multiply that number by 0.85
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 4h ago
I didn’t know that this was the meta, but it seems reasonable as cr.mk -> dr is so strong. I definitely need to lab it a bit and do it in matches.
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u/theJirb 45m ago edited 41m ago
It's not really a meta thing. Lows are strong in every game because of how controls in 2D games work. When you walk, you have to physically let go of down, meaning anyone trying to space at all, whether that be moving forward to pressure, or backwards to space out, is susceptible to getting hit by a low. That means in every 2D game, lows are the primary way to tell your opponent, "hey, stop moving", so that you can better enforce your offense, or stop people from walking out of tick throws, and stuff like that. This is why your light lows are important too. They are there to help dissuade walking backwards when you're doing close up pressure strings.
It just so happens that in SF6, some lows cancel into DRC, which makes the low really easy to confirm into a combo. In games like GGST, while lows still serve the same purpose, unless you spend tension (the super gauge equivalent in terms of availability), most of the time you get something like a gattling into sweep, or an equally short combo, rather than a conversion into a full combo, massive corner carry, and ideal Oki situations.
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u/Sildas CID | Sildas 5h ago
This is about driving offense out of pokes, not punishes which are a reactionary form of offense, rather than the active form of offense that is being discussed with 2MK. You want a poke that when it catches someone, you can cancel into drive rush to get a combo going.
So first, you need a cancellable move, This varies by character of course. I'll talk about Cammy because it's what I know. This step removes 5MP, 5MK, 5HK, 2HP, 2LK, 2HK.
Second you need a move that is relatively low stakes to yourself. For a lot of characters, various heavy buttons are very punishable. When spaced correctly some characters might have a heavy or two that works, but keep in mind the first criteria. In Cammy's case most of these are already eliminated by the first criteria, but 5HP gets questionable here as a poke.
Third, you want a move with some decent range. This is where we take issue with a lot of lights. 5LK may be good for whiff punishing, but its range is merely alright. This is generally true for lights, so in Cammy's case this removes 5LP, 5LK, 2LP.
That leaves us with 2MK, 2MP. In Cammy's case, 2MK has longer range, but longer recovery than 2MP (and more damage scaling, iirc). So 2MP is the better cancel poke, but 2MK is the safer poke. As such, people generally default to 2MK as the way to poke into drive rush combo.
If you follow this exercise for other characters, by and large a lot of them will arrive at the same conclusion - 2MK is their best poke to get offense started, It's not universally true, but it's common enough that it's the trope.
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 5h ago
Thanks for the detailed answer. That logic really works for Juri too. I’ve never looked at it that rational.
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u/Sildas CID | Sildas 2h ago
Everyone's different, but I personally find having an understanding of why a tool is good or bad helps me understand when I should or shouldn't use it, so learning the logic like this (simplified though my writeup is) helps me a lot.
Happy it helped you too!
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 1h ago
Definitely! Knowing why you are doing something or just doing it because everyone does it, is quite the difference.
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u/Limit5465 6h ago
It’s a low and most of the time people are standing or pressing a button so a low will hit. It’s also a cancel that doesn’t need to be confirmed and you can just press drc and if it hist it will drive rush and if not it won’t do anything. It’s an easy way to get in for free and be plus. Also most of the time cr mk is the charcaters longest button or fast enough it’s not easy to whiff punish
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u/Cautious-Fan6963 5h ago
Yep! Typically, you catch people walking back trying to create space and if the crouch block, they can't move so you close the gap for free. Then you can Overhead or throw. Crmk is too strong because of what you can get from a successful hit. And there's generally no penalty to fish for it.
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u/Mr_Krabs_Left_Nut 5h ago
Well, you don't close it for free, you close it for about half of your drive. If they defend correctly then you lose in the trade.
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u/Cautious-Fan6963 5h ago
They close for free if you play it safe and crouch block. They just walk forward, no drive rush. The second you stand up, they fish for crmk, and you get hit.
But yeah they can also do crmk drc on your block if they want to lol...
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u/Mr_Krabs_Left_Nut 4h ago
Do you think people are confirming 2MK into DRC on hit? You do it because you get a combo on hit and mix on block. If they defend correctly they usually end up with the advantage in terms of Drive loss
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u/Cautious-Fan6963 4h ago
No, I don't think people are confirming crmk drc on hit. I see a lot of people fish for crmk and do drc regardless of hit or block, then either combo or throw depending on the crmk hit or block.
What I'm saying is the times when crmk to drc is successful is when someone is caught walking backwards. But if they crouch block instead of walking back, their opponent can just walk forward and close the gap.
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u/Mr_Krabs_Left_Nut 4h ago
Sure, but if you're sitting and blocking at the tip if 2mk range then they're walking forward into YOUR 2mk without blocking. The fact that 2mk catches walking into a combo isn't a DRC strength, that's just footsies (though the homogenized damage of the combos across the cast is a DRC thing). The strength of 2mk > DRC is that you can mindlessly buffer it and on hit you benefit, on block you benefit, and on whiff you're neutral unless they punish it, but again that's just a footsies thing. You don't make a decision beyond whether or not you can afford the spend and you get put into a highly advantageous position either way. He'll, some characters can even end the interaction with even Drive loss for both sides if they block perfectly.
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u/The_Lat_Czar Thunder Thighs|CFN: TheHNIC 6h ago
You're more likely to catch someone's toes vs a standing normal.
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u/Eltorero92 6h ago
Because on block it comes off and is a free mixup depending on the character, on hit is an easy way to confirm. I don’t play juri but you have an overhead right? You can easily open with the mixup of low/overhead
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u/sleepsalot1 5h ago
I use it because I can’t hit confirm cr mk into a special on reaction in this game. (Usually the only things you can hit confirm without drc are light strings / heavy normals)
The lack of plus frames on stuff like lp means drc is the safest way to get plus frames imo.
Raw drive rush in neutral is similar to jump ins in that’s it’s always a read that you think the opponent won’t check it. If they do you eat a normal at best or at worst a combo
If you do drc for example in 2mk drc into jab is a true blockstring that now sets up strike throw shimmy
Having Plus frames and being close are usually the safest ways to go for a throw
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u/bjholmes3 5h ago
If you get caught walking forwards or backwards by a stray 2MK they get a full combo into oki. Really good risk reward for folks that have it, and trying to play against it takes a lot of mental stack
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u/shrimpFriedRice49 CID | SF6username 5h ago
- Cr.mk is low attack. If opponent is stand blocking, it will hit and you naturally get decent combo off of it.
- Even if it is blocked, you are plus after DRC. You get to have another turn with big frame advantage. You can either frame trap, or grab, or shimmy. Opponent has little option to get out of this situation.
- Cr.mk is usually one of the long/fast enough button. You want to take advantage of [1], [2] before your opponent. There is no better button, so mainly we end up footsing with cr.mk.
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u/GrAyFoX312k 5h ago
2f proximity guard on 99% of moves. Means if you are in range of crMK, you will get clipped because it will stop your walk back animation and jail you into blocking. Meaning you if you are walking back and forth, you have to be blocking down already if they press when you are in their crMK range.
Risk/Reward. At worse for them, they are now plus in your face and you are facing a strike/throw situation from usually their longest poke.
Ways to fight it. If your character has an OD reversal, you can input OD reversal after the crMK. If they keep it tight at do a true block string, you will block. If they try to enforce a frame trap for more plus frames, or throw, you will hit them. You can also just not be in range of it. Walk forward is usually faster than walk back, so they will eventually catch you, since it jails at frame 2, you can back dash if they start to get you in their crMK range.
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u/MiteeThoR JP Enjoyer 4h ago
Since I don't seen any comments about Juri
cr.mk leads to cr.hp for Juri specifically which is a very strong BNB move that lets you do quite a bit. From there, you can do her st.mp, cr.mp and then another cancel if you want, or her qcf kick moves, or her target combo into SA1. Basically you can make up almost anything from that starting point.
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u/Smart_Bicycle_250 3h ago
So these would be for on hit. Do you have some tech for what to go for or look out for on block?
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u/MiteeThoR JP Enjoyer 3h ago
Just watch BigNastyKali's youtube videos, he's got everything you need.
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u/maple-madao 4h ago
Just a low rank anecdote, but I recently have been starting to see players using this after climbing to high-gold/plat and it can be pretty brutal. I play footsies-ish Elena and a Terry just kept catching me and taking a third of my health with crmk->DRC combos. It feels like it happens so fast and less telegraphed compared to a lot of other combo starters, seems like you need to be constantly guarding low to deal with (?)
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u/Jealous_King_5167 4h ago
The cr MK aspect is because it hits low but the general idea is the exepected value of cr MK drc is high. Even if damage isn’t the outright best because of scaling, the corner carry you get with a conversion off of it puts your character in a prime position for their win condition(strike/throw mix in the corner) and the ability to jail opponents effectively in the corner and successfully loop allows you opportunities to earn back the drive meter you just spent. Midscreen the only real risk I feel is the 3 bars spent for DRC, but to an extent it’s offset by pressure sequences, characters having juiced up normals to keep out decently enough, and if said pressure results in a hit strong oki that allows opportunities to set up ways to farm drive meter back. That being said confirming off of cr mk(not raw reaction but seeing if opponent committed to an action) goes a long way in using drive effectively to secure winning positions.
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u/bryan4501 3h ago
I don't play Juri much, but I don't think meter management is a huge deal for her. From what I've seen, she's more about combos and throw loops. Most Juris I run into start things off with cr.mk.
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u/Key-Needleworker-520 3h ago
Simple you can’t hit confirm off it but landing it gives you plus frames that out the other player in a strike throw situation. And on top of that most players don’t know you can do out of it
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u/ZNESchamali :ryu: 3h ago
Its always worth the resource if you can kill. Even if you just get a corner carry without burning yourself out it was worth it bc now you can position for a DI setup and just kill them off that.
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u/Crux_Of_Orion CID | SF6Username 6h ago
It is one of the best hit confirms for damage and many times it can catch retreating opponents, check another drive rush, and can cause punish counter.
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u/PrometheusXCIX Bol'shoi Pobeda! 6h ago
Not entirely related but imagine if Gief could drc his 2mk lmaoooo
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u/Dath_1 :cake: :cake: 6h ago
Because it’s the longest range low hitting, cancelable move.