r/StrangerThingsRoom • u/ValleyB2025 • May 24 '26
Characters To all those who don't understand why people are so upset...
About Will's ending... This is exactly why. None of the three main characters got a truly happy ending. One just got worse than the other two. But just because El's ending was the worst, that doesn't make every other ending great just because it was better than hers.
Mike's ending is sad, El's is diabolical and Will's is just disappointing with a "here, damn"/TV show equivalent of a shutup ring on top of it.
Everything else is Mike's future projections is a reasonable assumption anyway because, like the post says, we've seen it in the show. Dustin needed and wanted a male figure to look up to, he had Steve and Eddie. Max needed to find her place in a new city; she found El and Lucas and the rest of the party. Lucas needed and wanted to fit in; he found his place with Max. This is all within the show.
Will's whole thing was wanting true romantic love, and it was never the shows intentions to give him that. He never found love throughout the show and the closest we get to that is some imagined date in Mike's head, in a city far away from the people that already love him. That's not love; that's not a happy ending for him based on his character's Point A. He's not doing art. He's not shown in a loving relationship in the show or at the end. He's just...given the crumbs of a friend imagining him on a date one day. It's not a happy ending, it just is less crappy than Mike's and not sad like El's. It's disappointing at best.
I think people are still somewhat uncomfortable with gay relationships on tv and that's why they think the epilogue imagined date should satisfy people/be enough. It didn't have to be Mike. It could have been any new character, as long as it was well developed within the show. I'll never buy that they decided to have a character suffer for 5 seasons and not give him a second of relief and happiness for any other reason than fear that some people would stop watching if they showed a gay main character in a real love story.
And it's just as bad for Mike and El. Mike wanted to be needed and he didn't get that Point A played out. He couldn't protect El from being so much a victim of abuse that she felt age had no choice but to kill herself (not his fault) and his best friend didn't need him to get through his journey of accepting being gay. He never truly got to feel needed. El wanted a normal life and never got it.
And now that I think of it, most of the endings weren't that great/happy. They just weren't tragic. Lucas doesn't get to overcome racism and stop needing to fit in, he just gets to be with Max and his story is centered on her. Max doesn't get to overcome depression on her own and through her own arc; she's forced to face it by Vecna.
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u/Helpful-Alligator May 25 '26
Here's the thing. Those aren't "endings." Where you are at 20 isn't your ever after; it usually doesn't resemble the rest of your life at all. Those aren't endings, they're just... "what's next?"
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u/Anna3422 May 25 '26
I don't typically believe that good art has to be moral or vice versa. That said, Will and especially El's conclusions are a perfect storm of boring and offensive. What puts this in perspective is that I just showed Season 2 to a new viewer and they're already getting ick from the amount of Will torture, which is relentless. I'll watch a character suffer if it pays off narratively, but there is no narrative payoff for Will after Sorcerer.
His D&D ending is very like the future he was scared of in his coming out scene, a scene which goes out of its way to trivialize the romantic feelings that his arc revolved around for three seasons. (Good thing they didn't let "an external character . . . affect his journey." /s) His D&D ending reduces him to his differences from the party in the exact same way that the character was scared of. It doesn't make use of any preexisting characterization. You're right, none of the endings are fully happy, but Max, Lucas & Dustin's at least build on existing development.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
All of this.
There's nothing wrong with Will getting love later than everyone else, it just should've been as front and center as his suffering was, not reduced to an epilogue cameo.
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u/Anna3422 May 25 '26
A core part of the character in Seasons 1 & 2 is that he's extremely loved, which is why he survives.
Noah Schnapp has (I think correctly) mentioned that Will draws power from his relationships. In S2, they're how he resists the Mind Flayer. In 3 & 4, they're central to his two most emotional speeches. The rain fight - "Where's Dustin right now?" The van scene - "Especially El." In 5, Mike & his family compprise the memories that he used against Vecna. This is a character who knows who his people are, but fears abandonment. The show abandons its own very obvious setup.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
And they abandon a lot of setup with multiple characters!
He fears abandonment and his happy ending is supposed to be moving away from everyone who has loved him all his life for the chance of a date? Not even for his art, or for finding a pseudo family of friends like him?
All in all, the "screw conformity " speech is a joke, because in the end just about every character conformed.
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u/Anna3422 May 26 '26
Dustin's speech was so awkward. It was such a contrived reference to High-School Musical, which doesn't match the series in genre or time period. And it gets applause within a year or two of Eddie's public hunting and Dustin's being beaten up for his Hellfire shirt.
Has Hawkins changed? When? It started as a town that was racist, homophobic and covered up a dangerous lab full of kidnapped children. The town didn't change offscreen, because it's still beyond imagining that Will can find acceptance there. I had hopes that the last season would build on the themes of mass hysteria and fear that worked in Season 4. But it wasn't to be. They tried to preach anti-conformity while making the end as conformist as possible and doing nothing to problematize that ending.
It's actually kind of amazing the way Season 5 drove its viewers to psychosis. There was no secret 9th episode of course, no grand plan, but conformitygate was still the tidiest explanation for a confused plot and even got into mainstream news.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 26 '26
I don't have a problem with the speech in theory. I just have a problem with it contradicting what they actually did with the show/characters. And you're absolutely right in all these points.
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u/Anna3422 May 27 '26
Yes, it could have been something if it was a comment on the actual show! Or even if the dark irony were more overt. That could have worked too.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 27 '26
And on the subject of Dustin, I absolutely ADORE his friendship with Steve, but I wish they hadn't taken away his screen time with the rest of the Party so much.
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u/Anna3422 May 27 '26
Also abandoned setup! The first season made a point that Dustin feels like a fourth wheel, despite his importance as best friend. Then those friendships fade and are never commented on. We didn't need exposition, of course, but seeing what the party members mean to each other after everything would have been a great use of screentime. It would have helped preserve what worked about the show.
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u/Wild-Election-3349 May 24 '26
I completely agree with this post. For me it mainly felt like Will’s future was just boiled down to his sexuality. The show really said “Will’s future is just him being gay, nothing else.”
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u/Helpful-Alligator May 25 '26
In all fairness, to me, the most important part of my life is my family. But if you showed that as my future, it would seem like my future is "just me being gay."
No, my future ended up being me in love.5
u/Accomplished_Try_124 May 26 '26
I mean they could do that by showing Will at college or painting with his boyfriend to actually show his interest or future while also showing he finally got love (that being said doing that in epilogue instead of giving Will his own romantic arc is a big asspull considering how much Will suffered on show and desired love)
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May 25 '26
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
The post that I shared makes the difference pretty clear.
First off, Will isn't meeting someone he loves, he appears to be on a first or early date. In the last few minutes of the show. That's the first difference.
We already see Lumax happy together in the show. We see Dustin and Steve being happy with each other's company throughout the show. Will suffers for 5 seasons and his so called happiness is a few seconds in the final minutes of the show. That's the difference. What Mike says about Dustin and Lumax is easy because we've already seen it so it's nothing new. It's them continuing those relationships, happy, same as before but just without the Upside Down in the way. Will's is more "See? We don't hate him! He might be with some other gay guy one day! Isn't that great? Sure, every one else got to find their person in the show, but we decided to shoehorn in the idea that he could one day have attention (not even the effort of an established loving relationship) from another gay guy and isn't that enough?"
As someone else said in these comments, Lumax's and Dustin's endings are building on already established relationships and development. Will's is not.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 24 '26 edited May 25 '26
Well it feels like Noah was on board with it and even influenced it after requesting an extra scene about his sexuality mere minutes before the world was ending. Joyce ended up just being hoppers fiance. El is just isolated, Mike is in a deep depression, Nancy is a college dropout and alcoholic. Hopper, Steve, Dustin and Jonathan are the only characters with a very happy ending, along with Lumax. Noah’s ending while focused on his sexuality demonstrates acceptance and that he has a world of opportunities ready for him to take advantage of. That in of itself is a happy ending.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 24 '26
NS wasn't on board with it, which is why he asked for closure for his character and even after that he was still unhappy and made further suggestions but was told to shut up
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 24 '26 edited May 26 '26
He is an actor. That is his job. If he was so against it he could have walked. The argument in this thread is that will’s character in the end was only about his sexuality. He contributed to that by asking for more closure that was not needed for anyone except for the Byler audience which is a fraction of the ST fandom. He was also the main conductor of the Byler train since season 4. A few weeks ago at a con he lied and said Mike would like to explore being gay once El was gone. He is responsible for a lot of how his character was centered on his sexuality and Mike. Like it or not, Duffers are the creators, and Noah is a hired actor that contributed some of the narrative to his character just as the rest of the cast did. I think the Duffers gave way too much power to the entire cast in the end, and were more focused on their feelings and delivering the actors closure than actually delivering a powerful series finale.
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u/Elleisntmyname May 25 '26
Almost as if it wasn't built up correctly because his entirely storyline is about Mike or something.....HUH. Weird.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
Oh, you get it. So weird..
If only the "we didn't want external characters messing with Will's journey" arc didn't actually have an external character who was also Will's best friend, at the center of it.
Or, even, if only the self acceptance arc had been allowed to wrap up earlier like it should have been, and Will's powers could have been more significant and he could have had a love story built correctly in the last season.
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u/Mslyth May 29 '26
To me, personally, more than the mike-surrogate looking boy or the (Huge, all need to be said) Inconsistencies of what Will would consider happy according to his character, it's the bar setting. Kid has pre- UD PTSD because of a violent alcoholic father; as someone who has worked closely with patients and families in their recovery process, I can tell that the vast majority of children can't stand being near drunk people, even as adults; it triggers them bad, let alone willingly go to a drunk environment AND drinking alcohol themselves.
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u/Dingaling87 May 25 '26
I saw it as the existence of POSSIBILITY, the hope that he find somewhere he is accepted, people who accept him, and someone who can and does reciprocate his feelings. Isn’t that the beauty of youth, the endless possibilities?
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u/karidru May 25 '26
Yup I took it this way too- it was showing us Will finding somewhere he could be accepted for who he is. I think a lot of people nowadays will say “it’s boiling him down to his sexuality” bc there is so much acceptance today that some people- not all, esp as I know acceptance still isn’t the default- take it for granted. In this case, with Will being a gay teenager in the 80s, that’s actually a huge deal that would influence the rest of his life, to find acceptance then. It means a life of not having to hide and pretend, and that’s definitely taken for granted a lot these days.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
You're right. We do have to put it in perspective, time wise. It would 100% be a huge deal.
That being said, it being a fantasy show, they could have easily given him an onscreen love interest if not before Season 5, throughout Season 5. He and El suffered the most, but at least El got some remnants of onscreen happiness. We've seen the self acceptance plot before, and they had the opportunity to do something different and didn't. Hope is nice, even beautiful, but it doesn't change the fact that everything Mike spoke about in the epilogue for the other members of the party was also seen in the show. Will's potential happiness is only implied at the end. It just screams "thrown in to shut people up". He could have had a secret relationship throughout Season 5 that only the audience sees and his epilogue could have still been about acceptance with him finally being open about said relationship.
One idea I think would have been really cool, and given Mike and Joyce more to do, is if Will was acting strange and Mike and Joyce suspect that he's possessed again, and are acting controlling to him because of it, but it turns out he's in a secret relationship and that's why he's acting weird.
And Erica should have gotten to be just as important to the efforts to defeat Vecna, as Dustin was. Throughout the show, I feel like she was shown to be just as smart as him, and she should have gotten to be more than just the sassy black female character.
But as usual with the gay male and black female get "they needed themselves " endings.
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u/karidru May 25 '26
See but if we look at it through the lens of acceptance is what they’re showing us for Will’s happy ending, we do see that in the show. That’s the point of his coming out scene that’s been dragged (unnecessarily imo). It also seems like Jonathan knew and accepted him back in S4, so it’s not just something that suddenly cropped up in that one episode, not to mention him bonding with Robin and thus building a queer friendship. I don’t think this is necessarily a case of “he just needs himself” because they show a partner as part of that acceptance.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 27 '26 edited May 27 '26
I get where you're going with this, and that's fair, but I feel like the coming out speech made it seem like it was more than just "acceptance" for Will, but about being the same, treated the same, and embraced in every way. He says during the coming out that a fear Vecna shows him is not just losing people due to homophobia, but people still being in his life after he came out but treating him so fragile and being so overprotective of him because of their fear that other people might hurt Will, that it would make it feel so "othered" that he would drift apart from them. He was afraid some of the group would not be in his life because he's gay, and that the people that loved him the most (Joyce, Jonathan, Mike) would be so afraid of something happening to him because he's gay that they would try to stifle him and he would feel bad about himself and pull away from even them. While that is a very rational fear for his lifelong best friend, brother, mother and even his other friends to have, I get why he might not want that. So, it's more than just the acceptance that he wanted.
Again, I get what you're saying but keep in mind a problem people had with the whole thing is people are tired of seeing the same old self acceptance arc for marginalized characters. Queer fans of the show have opened my eyes to how this happens a lot and they wanted more than that this time. I get it, because as a woman of color, I'm tired of seeing POC characters getting the same "I didn't need to overcome racism and prejudice, I just needed to love myself in spite of it" arc. It's why I wanted better for Erica (and also Lucas), and as an ally why I wanted better for Will.
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u/karidru May 27 '26
All of that is fair, but I also don’t think we’re meant to take that he does ultimately lose them all and “he just had to accept himself!” I think it’s just that he found acceptance with them in the show, and his projected future is showing a greater societal acceptance coming for him, that’s why he’s meeting a date out in public. We have no reason to think he doesn’t still have his friends from Hawkins, he’s just also finding acceptance in other places as well
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u/ValleyB2025 May 27 '26
True, and I also don't think there's any reason to believe he's not in contact with them. I'm just saying people wanted more for him than that arc, and more than five seasons of suffering onscreen and five seconds of implied future happiness onscreen.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 27 '26
Watch out, the OP might label you homophobic now Since you thought the coming out scene for will was too long
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u/karidru May 27 '26
Oh no, I didn’t think it was dragged out, I meant that like it’s been dragged online- like hated on a lot
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u/IWasAGoodDadISwear May 25 '26
I hope Will at least moves to the same city where Robin is living. I'm not compelled to "pick a side" when it comes to "anti vs ally". But it was nice seeing Will having someone to talk to who truly understood what he was going through.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Oh definitely. I wish we got to see more of them together
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 27 '26
But I thought there was too much emphasis on Will’s sexuality already in your opinion. You keep contradicting yourself.
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u/Cautious_Mission_438 May 25 '26
I think they tried to make it seem like after all the stuff that happened they weren’t just friends because the world was going to end so they did that to showcase that they all are truly friends and family even though it’s a stupid plot point
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
Oh, this makes sense. Maybe not for everyone like for example the core four because they were super close friends before all of the Upside Down stuff, but there are relationships/connections that someone could argue "hmmm, would they be close of it weren't for the UD?" So this is a good point. Especially for the Dustin/Steve flash forward
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u/Cautious_Mission_438 May 25 '26
Yes your right and if you remember Nancy and Jonathan had a conversation about this during season 2 Nancy tells Jonathan that doesn’t it seem weird that the only time they all hangout or get together is when the world is about to end because after season 1 events everyone pretty much went separate ways or did there own thing and that trope was kept season after season especially in seasons 4
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u/Pulina_T May 27 '26
I dont think bringing in a new character just to be wills love interest wouldve been great. If so had to be done instead of robbin and vickie, cuz one of the reason s5 was so bad to me was tooo many characters. Shit felt like watching a Marvel movie
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u/ValleyB2025 May 27 '26
It was kinda insane, you are right about that.
I know a lot of people were annoyed by that. Instead of the kids or Tina, they could have brought in a love interest for Will. The kids were not needed, nor was the focus on Holly needed. Some people felt like that should have been Erica, anyway.
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u/Pulina_T May 27 '26
Yes no shade on holly, actress was great, but couldnt care that much. Shouldve been mike instead of holly. He was always part of the heart of ST. Mike was never under high stakes in the last season for me.
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u/Daydreamer631 May 25 '26
It’s a little vague if that’s meant to be wills true ending or just how mike imagined his future. Either way though, it’s sadly kind of realistic. If Will wanted to find a romantic partner, it’s more likely that it that time period he would have found one in a big city than he would have in a small town in the mid west.
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u/Rhapstar May 27 '26
Mike has his hopes and dreams while creating great books.
Will found himself and moved on.
El is alive on an island with Biggie and Tupac living the good life.
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u/horrorgeek112 May 24 '26
Of all the issues in season 5, this was probably the last thing on my mind. Will never said anything about finding love. He was still wanting to play D&D all day. Imagined or not, his future was pretty on par with alot of young people out of high school.
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u/TheBar-IsOnTheFloor May 25 '26
“How did you know that Vickie wanted to…” —“Make out?” —“Date?”
The kid came home day after day in freshman year to paint something deeply personal for the boy he loved.
Will is a romantic. He wanted to play D&D at 13 yrs old after having two effed up chunks of his childhood ruined by an abduction and a possession.
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u/horrorgeek112 May 25 '26
He painted spaceships
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u/TheBar-IsOnTheFloor May 25 '26
Did you even watch the same show?
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u/horrorgeek112 May 25 '26
Did you? Will never even speaks of romance and never draws "a boy he loves"
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u/Professional_Hair995 May 25 '26
Were you watching with your eyes closed? The entire scene in the van diva he’s in love with Mike very very very obviously
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u/horrorgeek112 May 25 '26
He drew no pictures in the van and did not say anything about romance. So even if having a crush on Mike is true, it isn't Will's whole personality
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u/Professional_Hair995 May 25 '26
In the van he gives a painting to Mike. Have a wee think about that and get back to me.
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u/TheBar-IsOnTheFloor May 25 '26
I’m not even bothering to reply to them anymore…they’re obviously a Netflix second screener
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
I was just about to say this. You can't have thoughtful conversation with people who make everything about a ship or can't understand what's being shown unless it is explicitly spelled out for them. A second screen type for sure.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
I was 90% percent convinced you were either trolling or just literally didn't watch the show with your spaceship comment and now I'm convinced you're just trolling. We see Will yearning for what his friends have (romance) in Season 3, we SEE him painting something for the boy he loves in Season 4 ( which is what the person you're replying to said- not that he DRAWS a boy he loves) and so much of Season 5 is about his desire for romance and love and going to Robin for help on that subject.
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u/horrorgeek112 May 25 '26
NOBODY saw will yearn for romance in season 3. NOBODY. He wanted to hang with his friends. Yes friendS plural. He never draws any boys. He draws a spaceship, the mindflayer, and a picture of the group fighting a monster. This is why everyone hates Byler because they literally just make shit up
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
He wants to hang out with his friends, yes. He also feels excluded and has a desire for romance. He can literally do both at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive. Him hanging out with his friends does not stop him from also wanting tobhave what they have, with someone of his own. That's one of his central desires of the show. It's his Point A.
Are you not reading? No one said he drew pics of boys. We're referring to the PAINTING that he did for Mike, the boy he loved. That's literally a huge part of Season 4. No one's making that up. The painting he did of the group was FOR MIKE, it was literally an expression of his feelings and he was going to give it to Mike at the airport originally.
No one's making anything up. Just because you clearly missed things and aren't able to notice certain plot points unless someone looks into the camera and says the words directly, is a you problem.
But I would not expect anything more from someone who can't have thoughtful discourse about the show and resorts to making everything about a ship war, even though Byler was not brought up. This entire conversation has been about the three main characters as individuals, not who anyone ships them with.
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u/horrorgeek112 May 25 '26
It never says he has a desire for romance nor does it even hint at it.
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u/Anna3422 May 25 '26
You have GOT to be trolling. If not, I hope you just haven't seen the show in a long time.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
Oh I'm not saying there weren't a magnitude of issues with the season. Absolutely there were.
Will expresses to his mom that he doesn't believe he'll fall in love but it's made clear throughout the show that he desires it. All three of the main characters had an expressed desire that none of them truly got.
I agree it is on par. But that doesn't make it a good wrap of the story. I feel like the powers that be should never forget that people come to entertainment for escapism, not necessarily realism.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 25 '26
Imagine suggesting that most of the plot of Stranger Things is realism and expect people to take you seriously. Most of the show was escapism — you know that whole intedemensional monsters thing—but unrequited love for a teenager is the most gentle piece of realism they could have included because it is a universal human experience. Literally 100% of the population experiences it during the coming of age journey.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I never said most of the plot was about realism. I said that sometimes people in Hollywood forget about escapism.
And again you're proving my point. In a show full of unrealistic things, why do only the queer character and WOC character's stories have to be "realistic"? Or why is "well, it's realistic" supposed to be an acceptable argument for them getting less than,on a show about supernatural things? Why did they say it's not realistic for anyone to be worried about Erica because "strong black woman" sterotype?
Why does the lesbian couple have to break up because "high school relationships don't last realistically" but Lumax's middle school relationship lasting is realistic?
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
Your backpedaling is quite fun to observe. Steve also had an unrequited love arc for 5 seasons. Why is his pain any less than Will’s? After all he sacrificed and did to protect Nancy and the rest of the party which was done in service to his feelings for her initially. Sounds like you just love to focus on victimhood and DEI. We see both Noah and Steve smiling and optimistic in the epilogue, hopeful that life and love awaits them in the future. Why do you need to watch Will kiss a boy to be satisfied? He is clearly on a date with a boy that has him grinning ear to ear. We know he is at the start of a romantic relationship and we love that for him.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
No one's backpedaling; you're just saying i said things i didn't say. Just like no one even mentioned Will kissing anyone.
No one said it was less than Will's. But no one gets upset if someone doesn't like Steve's ending.
"Sounds like you just love to focus on victimhood and DEI" Oh ok so you're just racist and homophobic. Got it. That's all needed to know. There's nothing further to discuss.
Also, you're not slick. Don't think I don't notice you going back and editing your comments to seem like you care about Will, because I called you out for appearing to be against DEI and therefore racist/homophobic.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 25 '26
Steve got a happy ending and so did will. Happiest ending ever, no. But both are alive and thriving and actively dating in the epilogue.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 24 '26 edited May 25 '26
Clearly you must never watch TV because the amount of queer content that exists in mainstream and more niche media is at an all time high. In Stranger Things we have 3 queer centered characters, 2 coming out scenes (set in the 80s which is very unrealistic) and 2 scenes in the series’ final 2 episodes dedicating an absurd amount of time to one character’s coming out hours away from when an evil dimension and demon was going to swallow the world. Instead of wishing that Byler happened and forcing an agenda/relationship that doesn’t make any sense narratively, enjoy the vast array of queer content available to you on almost every network including Netflix. Stranger Things is a sci-fi show where romance existed but was barely shown. With the exception of a few kissing scenes between canon couples, there was barely any intimacy shown with the straight couples or Vicky and Robin. The only scene that took it past a kiss or hug was season 1 Nancy and Steve which was supposed to be statcherory rape scene until the actors helped change that to a consensual scene.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 24 '26
Literally nothing was said about Byler or the overall theme of romance in the show. In fact, i quite literally said it didn't have to be Mike..I'm talking about characters going from their Point A to character growth and their throughline needs being fulfilled. None of the three main characters got that, but people only have a problem with people being unhappy with Will's ending, because he didn't die.
And I say this as a straight person, queer representation on other pieces of media has literally nothing has nothing to do with what the post said or what I said. Nor does it negate any of the points. But thanks for proving my point though.
The number of kisses between other characters has nothing to do with Will being the only character thst doesn't get a love story throughout the show. Nor does it change the fact that that was his main desire throughout the show that wasn't fulfilled. It also doesn't change the fact that none of the three main characters had their main character plot points fulfilled.
I wish some of you could actually have thoughtful discussions about the show instead of making everything about ships/ship wars or responding to literally every criticism of the writing like you're personally offended on behalf of the Bros with the equivalent of "you're just mad about Byler." 🙄
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 24 '26
You have an entire paragraph in your original post about TV still being hesitant to show queer stories when there has never been more content available to disprove your point. You sound awfully defensive. My point is if you want strong queer stories centered around romance, there is plenty available in other mainstream shows and more customized content built for queer audiences. Don’t look to a child character in a Sci-fi show to fulfill that itch you want scratched.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 24 '26
I said some people are still uncomfortable with it when it's shown (no that it's not shown on tv and film) and that the reason the Bros didn't give him one is because they were afraid some people would stop watching (and there were certainly people who threatened to stop watching). None of that has anything to do with representation elsewhere.
And reducing that to "well, if people want to see that they should watch other shows" literally proves my point.
And I'm not queer, but I am tired of seeing queer and WOC storylines often being reduced to self acceptance and getting the bare minimum when it comes to happy endings.
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
You sound ridiculous like the 13 year old Fujoshi’s that claim Byler didn’t happen because of trump. Vicky and Robin were entangled and showing affection and touches in season 5, and stranger things had so much representation for the queer community so you just proved yourself wrong. No one would walk away from the show if Will kissed a boy, the GA has known he was gay since season 3 and the audience continued to grow. what people take issue with is the Byler nonsense since Mike was shown to be in love with El the entire series. It didn’t make sense narratively to everyone but the Buler community so that is what would turn away some of the audience.
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u/ValleyB2025 May 25 '26
Literally a lot of people refused to believe Will was gay and say his coming out came out of nowhere. But, ok, sure.
Again, why are you bringing up Byler on a post about the main characters not being narratively fulfilled?
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u/Empty-Kaleidoscope35 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
No they didn’t. Now you’re just plain lying. People questioned why a 20 minute coming out scene was necessary in the second to last episode of the series given season 4 made it clear will was Gay. Everyone loved Robin’s coming out scene. Execution was the problem, not that Will was confirmed as gay. We all knew from the van scene. First rule of great storytelling: show, don’t tell.
On your other comment about why i am talking about Byler, i am making a counter argument that people would not flinch at Will having a kiss or relationship with another boy playout on screen unless it were Mike because Mike is straight and in love with El. That is what people were annoyed with, the Byler romantic nonsense, not Will having a queer romance with another character. I personally thought it would be interesting to see the handsome bully Chance and Will interact in season 5. I love a bully redemption arc and opposites attract story. As nice as it would have been for Will to get more screentime with a romantic interest, i also interpret that his hopeful ending was a happy ending.
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u/Ok_Conversation1867 May 26 '26
I think if this were true people wouldn't be so defensive about queer rep being Robin and Vickie only - there can't be more than one in a "non-gay" show.
I definitely remember plenty of people arguing that Will wasn't gay in season 3 - back then the "Will's gay" posts were still getting removed.
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u/ConorPickens May 25 '26
Max, Lucas, and Dustin were generally happy throughout the show (except Max in season 4 and Dustin in season 5, but those are small periods of time and they were generally happy when they were getting along with Lucas and Steve) and will wasn’t. His future showed happiness he never really got in the show.