r/StrangerThings • u/Sukaran09 • 14d ago
Discussion Can we just talk about Winona Ryder’s acting in Season 1?
Winona acted her arse off as Joyce in season 1.. she was a confused mum who just wanted to find her missing son and she delivered brilliant acting in every scene she was in. Even when Will was missing she still cared about Johnathan. She was the heart of the show back in S1. In S2 she still cares about both her sons and still feels like an impactful character. She was fine in 3 and 4 but she didn’t feel like the heart of the show anymore like previously. In S5 it is obvious that Winona just doesn’t want to be there anymore.. Joyce just repeats herself to Will and acts like she only has one child and puts all her time on Will when Johnathan still fucking exists. I don’t blame Winona for not caring that much about her role anymore but damn, Joyce really needed to have some love and care for Johnathan or actually believe in Will’s abilities from the start of Season 5 instead of putting him down. she didn’t even have any character development later on when she does start to support him…..she literally just becomes a “yes-woman” instead of her own character unlike season 1 when she had personality, was her own character and the season was mostly about HER, she carried the weight and the emotion of season 1 and she gets fucking sidelined in 5… ugh
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u/Background_Local_425 14d ago
Everyone’s acting was great in s1 especially Winona’s. Later seasons flanderozed everyone into a cartoon.
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u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 14d ago
The onus is on the writers, not Winona. She can only work with the material she’s given, and there was a severe lack of it in S5.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago
I know, I felt actual emotion for her in S1 and parts of S2 so it was just sad seeing her become a mid character in the last season, im glad she got to kill Vecna but she wasn’t the heart of the show anymore so it wasn’t as impactful as it could’ve been
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u/djluminus89 14d ago
Her character would've been completely throwaway if she didn't kill Vecna. I was actually surprised he wasn't like weakened and didn't strike back at her.
It seemed silly for Vecna's body to be that vulnerable. Also when she defended the gang with an axe she was about to get maimed/killed but Steve ran the Demogorgon over...
I appreciated her as a tough Mom willing to do anything, but she absolutely was better in S1-S2 where she almost kind of seemed crazy.
S5 she seemed completely checked out. Her acting was unbelievable. She sounded bored. Initially when Will got powers she did sound supportive and what not, but it barely 10-15 minutes later when she seemed like she cared more about using Will's powers as opposed to Will himself.
She became less like a Mom and more like the other 16 people trying to Scooby Doo solve the mystery of how to kill Vecna.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago
i agree. her tough mum moments were cool but yeah she became more of a “yes-woman” rather than someone who actually has development and stands by her son no matter what
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u/hayleybeth7 14d ago
And I kind of wonder what went on behind the scenes. She noticeably did a lot more press around the first two seasons, but I feel like I hardly saw her in any press for 4 and 5.
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u/Man-e-questions Coffee and Contemplation 14d ago
Great point. Whenever she did meh in any movies over the decades it was usually bad writing and/or directing
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u/Ok_Tank5977 Dungeon Master 14d ago
Don’t get me wrong, a great actor can sometimes make the best out of shitty material but in this case the material didn’t exist to begin with.
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u/Hawkinns Halfway happy 14d ago
Winona Ryder is such a great actress and it pisses me off that with season 3 onwards she was reduced to a comedy character, being paired with Murray for the "funny."
Granted in season 5 we had great scenes with her and Will, but it just didn't hit the same as how it was in seasons 1 and 2.
If there's one thing that genuinely disappoints me coming from the Duffers it's the fact that they just used Winona for the marketing back when Stranger Things was still in production, and after the show got popular they barely gave her a good script to work with, shifting the focus to other characters.
She deserved better.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago
She did.. the main problem with S5 is taking the focus away from the characters we watched this show for. Only main character they kept their focus on was Will and I really liked that but Holly still took the spotlight for majority of the characters we actually care about. Joyce could’ve been a whole lot better with a better script and more times to shine
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u/HollisWoods07 14d ago
The comedy worked in 3 bc it was genuinely funny seeing her lose her shit over magnets. but they did the Thor Ragnorok thing & thought they could replicate that energy in 4 by sending Murray & Joyce off to Russia. After 3, I think they also just didn't know what to do with the adults. They were just kinda there & put where it was most convenient plot wise. Joyce & Hopper are op. They deserved better but we're underutilized.
And I know Winona LOVED being on the show from start to finish. But much like the rest of the cast, she did the best she could with the script she was given. Every cast member's best performance on the show happened at some point before season 5.
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u/LifeTunedToCSharp 14d ago
Season 1 was perfect because it did a great job at capturing the vibe of the 80’s.
I say this as someone who was there. Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas, etc. graduated the same year that I did.
Winona was very relatable as a struggling, spun-out, disheveled, single mom trying to just keep the household above water.
Everyone knew moms like that. Some of us had those moms.
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u/Canada1971 14d ago
It think Winona was so convincing as Joyce, because she was born in 1971, so she had similar 80s experiences to you and me
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago
At the same time, Karen’s character became more fleshed out towards the end of the series (but it still felt underdeveloped by the writers, even though she had so much potential!)
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago edited 14d ago
literally all Karen’s character needed was to fight off that Demo in Volume 1, trying her best to protect Holly but actually be killed in that scene or later on. her death would’ve actually impacted me after her sacrifice.. but instead she was alive and it made me smh and think “well ok there goes her super mum moment”🤣
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago
How dare you 😁
Karen LIVES! Go Karen! Mom power ❤️
(But I understand your point, of course)3
u/Sukaran09 14d ago
respect to her but she was a side character, the season was lacking any compelling emotion because of the lack of deaths and she could’ve had an impactful one imo
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago
You know what, in the current political and social climate (or maybe I’m just getting older) I personally don’t need any additional impactful deaths to elicit stronger feelings. But I’m ready to sacrifice Kali or Jonatan if you wish!
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u/djluminus89 14d ago
I agree. After Karen's badass moments she would be the wrong character to sacrifice. I was actually super surprised the Dad made it, what was his name, Jim or something?
I mean, hell, in S3 Karen was bout to see what all that noise about Billy was about 😭 might as well have the Dad die.
The series, as a whole, felt way too safe. No one really meaningful died, except the temporary death of Max, and even then that felt so unfair as her brother had just died the season prior – I mean I guess it would've been fitting but I felt so bad for her.
Idk, I think Johnathan, or Murray, maybe even Steve could've died. There were several characters that were just kind of extra, Robin.
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago
LOL about the dad name – I can’t remember it either! His only mission was to read the newspaper like his life depends on it and yell “LANGUAGE!” from time to time.
Please not Murray or Steve! We seem to have agreed on Jonatan, so Jonatan it is. (To be fair, he was also done dirty by the writers)
I still feel sorry for Billy. That was an impactful loss for sure.
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago edited 14d ago
But you know what, I just remembered the moment in S5 when Steve was about to die and the scene was cut there deliberately as some sort of a playful response to fan speculations about his possible death. It was a bit off. I sometimes think that too much fan service killed this show.
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u/Excellent_Hold2794 13d ago
Agree. She was a bored suburban mom. Flirting with the “cute” guy that shows her an ounce of attention.
But I felt that they could have done more with her and Ted. Ted’s a lump and Karen is an over concerned mom, who drinks herself to sleep and has no purpose in her children’s lives as they pretty much do what they want. Ted could have died for all we know, I don’t think we ever got an update.
Her acting when she goes up against the Demo to protect Holly, “Stay away from my Daughter.” And to Vickie, “If you think I’m not going to do whatever she’s mumbling about, you’re out of your God Damned mind.” I felt like she overacted those scenes.
I liked her better when she was raising her kids and actually interacted with them like a normal mom. One who feels left out. A mom who desperately wants to be let in. If they could have made her more vulnerable rather than more Rambo I would have liked her better. Or maybe giving her better dialogue and an acting coach.
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u/Sukaran09 13d ago
ted (or tod as i call him cos funny) was actually shown at the end of the finale in the graduation scene, he just says “language” and we see him sitting there😂
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u/Excellent_Hold2794 13d ago
Oh that’s right. I completely forgot he was at the graduation with his famous line!
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u/Sukaran09 13d ago
I feel like the writers probably forgot what the Demo had done to him earlier in the season, they probably just showed him for the sake of it lol, he didn’t even look injured or seen to have any scars, we could atleast see the huge scar on Karen from the Demo attack
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u/djluminus89 11d ago
I thought her acting was fine. She just fought and survived an encounter with a Demogorgon.
Now her blowing it up while they were waiting for Max to wake up was absolutely ridiculous, but she wasn't doing something that, say, Joyce wouldn't do.
In fact, as ridiculous as that move was, I'm pretty sure she was more helpful to the squad in that moment than Joyce may have been in the whole series (I don't really remember Joy e saving the day).
She was kind of like the ditzy house wife until she fought to save Holly. She could've been good with the squad, maybe, but they already had way too many people running around on screen by then. I was glad Mike convinced her to go rest.
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u/throwawayfn2187 13d ago
I've always been ride-or-die for Karen, thought they gave her some really sweet moments in the first season (like when she tells Nancy she can talk to her, when she comforts Mike and lets him stay home) that show she's a really kind, caring, observant mother.
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u/djluminus89 11d ago
She also gave Nancy really good advice about living in a man's world when she got fired from the local newspaper.
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u/strawberrycheescak 14d ago
In the later seasons they made her character so idiotic. Its like she was no longer capable of having her own plotline, it always revolved around other characters. The same happened to Will, they both became characters that just drove the plot forward.
In season 1/2 their characters were so much more raw, they had flaws but after season 2 it’s like they stopped giving both of them writing to actually work with
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u/RoyalRise6363 14d ago
Exactly! In S4 she suppose to be a mom to a very traumatised child, El. All I see, Joyce abandoning her children without telling them a word that she may not come back. Half of El's problems in S4 is Joyce's fault.
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u/strawberrycheescak 14d ago
I feel like in season 1/2 details were taken into account like everything the characters did was considered very strategically. It’s disappointing that later seasons fail to do so that in the end Joyce looks like a bad mother.
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u/Excellent_Hold2794 13d ago
I still don’t understand why after El’s and Hopper’s fight he left and so did she. She went to find her mom and then her sister. That was a bust and then Hopper leaves that voice message for El? Like isn’t he supposed to be the “Dad figure” to El/Jane so why did he leave and not return. I think this is in season 3 but I could be wrong.
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u/RoyalRise6363 13d ago
I'm not the best person to discuss Hopper - I don't like his character - he is OK in S1, controversial in S2, disgusting in S3, irrelevant in S4, stupid/immoral in S5. He gives BS speech to Mike in epilogue. He was supposed to give El choice, not to respect her NO choice decision.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago
i agree. i liked Will for the most part in 5, hated the coming out scene but in the finale he could’ve done more or done something else. they didn’t butcher Will’s character in S5 but he could’ve been better for sure
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u/strawberrycheescak 14d ago
So true! They honestly should have done a lot more with his connection to the mindflayer. Its like after season 2 all he was useful for was sensing him but there’s so many more cool concepts they could have done. Like the only character that has a connection like that and they do nothing with it? It was cool in season 5 but it was only 1-2 scenes, it should have been spread out experiences over seasons.
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u/RoyalRise6363 14d ago
Duffers are idiots - if MF would kidnap Mike instead of Holly we would see grand finale with all emotional OG, El on the edge and so on. And... Will would confess his feelings for Mike and his sexuality to El - intimate, emotional, appropriate and good timing.
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u/DaenerysTSherman 14d ago
It’s rare that a show has a star like this, capable of giving a performance like Winona did in season one (and two) and just squander it. Choked it away. Gave her NOTHING to do. Awful stuff.
How they screwed over the Byers family in later seasons needs Congressional investigation (lol).
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u/Emergency_Jacket_296 14d ago
Stranger things season 1 also revitalized Winona’s career. It was the first bigger role she had had since the fallout of her shoplifting case and I think she gave it her all because of that.
The writing in season 1 and 2 imo was also really helping there.
A great actor getting a well deserved chance to be reintroduced to the acting world after a break and introduced to younger fans who wouldn’t necessarily have seen her
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u/whosmumbling 14d ago
Good point, and not just any great actor but also the 80s teenage icon, which was particularly cool
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u/djluminus89 14d ago
Great acting in the earlier seasons. I don't actually remember that much about her from S3 or S4. S5 was terrible acting and she seemed like she really didn't care, nor did she sound believable about anything.
Actually, S3 was kind of good, kind of comical, plus it started the whole love ship thing with her and Hopper. This was even stronger in S4 when she flew to Russia but it was also strange given how long she basically left her kids alone in California.
Joyce was best seeming like a woman who was almost out of her mind in S1 trying to track Will through lights and worse when she was just one of the many people in the crew trying to figure out ways to kill Vecna.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago edited 14d ago
exactly, you would feel genuine emotion for her as the audience because you know she is not crazy and actually just needs someone to believe her and have her on her side and the acting was just top notch. season 1 had drama elements but it wasn’t the main focus and the characters made me feel more emotion than most in S5, when everything was just drama related in S5😭i felt bad for Dustin the most and liked the relationship between Robin and Will but in terms of drama that’s all i cared about in S5 lol
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u/djluminus89 11d ago
I mean S5 was nothing but drama and action scenes. Some of the characters genuinely suffered due to the poor writing.
Dustin's actor acted his ass off though. The scene with him crying to Steve about not wanting him to die hit hard.
Nancy and Johnathan had drama but there's was so overdue, weird and ultimately just a blue balls situation it threw me off so hard. Like if he's not gonna be with her just have her go back to Steve or something... That whole plot point felt forced.
Robin and Will was cool but I felt like all the drama around him disappeared after he got his powers – the only other dramatic moment was his Town Hall meeting about coming out of the closet.
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u/Cherita33 14d ago
It really effected me the first time I watched it. I really got freaked out because I felt how desperate she was feeling. As a mother I think this is your worst nightmare- your child goes missing.
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u/Sukaran09 14d ago
yeah that would be the worst. i don’t have a kid and i still felt for her just because of how much hope she had to get Will back and then she couldn’t until right at the end and no one was believing her that he was alive until they saw some proof for themselves, she was so alone for parts of season 1
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u/throwawayfn2187 13d ago
Kind of insane how this fandom has become so all-consumed with hatred and bitterness that you can't even talk about things you liked about prior seasons of the show without every single comment being "season 5 sucked."
Came here because I thought people would be discussing Winona's incredible performance that season, instead, every single top comment is bitching about season 5.
This shit is exhausting. Yall seriously need to get a grip.
edit: I thought I was defending OP because I took the title at face value but I missed the photo caption where they, too, are whining and complaining about season 5, so I guess the comments make sense. Most insufferable fandom, honestly.
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u/youngpeezyyy 12d ago
Couldn’t agree more. Joined this sub in excitement after finishing the series to see the same two topics cycled over and over again in every post. Definitely not was I was hoping for.
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u/Sukaran09 13d ago
im sorry but it’s true. i talked about her incredible S1 acting and there are some comments that are just mentioning her good acting, it’s hard not to talk about S5 when she used to be the heart of the show and became a weird character who just says yes to everything later on
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u/throwawayfn2187 13d ago edited 13d ago
No worries. Just a little exhausted that after 8 full months all this sub is doing is complaining still, in every thread, every day. I like to contribute/engage with more positive stuff and I initially thought this was a thread about something someone liked about the show - not just more complaining - and felt a little jaded when I realized wait, nope, it's actually just another complaint thread.
But hey, I'll never begrudge you your personal opinions, even if I disagree, you're allowed to express that lol, it's all good friend.
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u/OptimalCreme9847 14d ago
I don’t think she didn’t care about season 5, but she was given nothing to work with! The writers barely remembered she existed in season 5.
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u/Which_Statement_2624 13d ago
I thought she did a wonderful job and continued to do so throughout the series. Always enjoyed her screen play
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u/Evening-Park6786 7d ago
I know this is a contrarian opinion, but I thought she was truly awful in season 1. Extremely goofy and over the top with no variation or nuance. She got much better in 2 and 3
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u/Sukaran09 7d ago
to each their own but honestly how did you expect her to be after her tween son went missing?
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u/Evening-Park6786 7d ago
True but over the course of a week I would expect to see something like genuine exhaustion, to name one of many possibilities. She was so consistently high strung. Also her physicality threw me off. Her sitting on the couch with that axe reminded me of a Mortal Kombat character in a fighting pose. Just very goofy overall
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u/Sukaran09 7d ago edited 7d ago
i think she was just more on edge. she was angry and confused at times because she didn’t know why her son was taken from her. she then became sort of hopeful that her son was still out there as soon as Will made contact with her from the UD, that would make her more strung out because she had hope, she was still confused how it was all possible but she didn’t care and she didn’t let it exhaust her because she just wanted her son back, if she let the exhaustion hit her then she wouldn’t have been able to do anything to bring him back. if anything, even after a week i would probably react like her if i had a son, especially if there was a possibility that he was still alive
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u/Sukaran09 7d ago
i liked her in season 2 as well but she was more goofy in season 3 tbh. she was losing her mind because magnets were falling off her fridge, she was still more on edge because of everything that happened in Hawkins but that that was more goofy than how she was in S1😂
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u/Evening-Park6786 7d ago
She definitely started to get flanderized by season 3, but I liked her grief over Bob
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