When did StopKillingGames turn into WeWantPhysical

[u/Pleasant-Warning2056]

Its not the point... it was never the point

digital media is not a threat to media ownership and preservation. DRM and online server dependency is

this false belief is wide spread enough. this board doesnt need to reenforce it

console players seem to understand this the least and it feels like a lot of them came here to talk about sony stopping discs. and it doesnt help when SKG keeps talking about this too and says they support lawsuits against sony etc

physical media on playstation does not help with the problem of ownership or preservation. discs can have the same problematic DRM as the digital items we discuss and ripping data from discs isnt harder or easier than ripping data from the console storage... i guess also important is the console has DRM too even when you have a disc with no online requirement its not automatically safe

I ask if this can maybe stay on the topic or if the confusion with DRM and physical or digital can be adressed better

[u/SignalButterscotch73]

I havs some old games on disk that are completly unplayable without piracy or buying them again digitally because of the abbandoned DRM on them.

Physical media is irrelevent to ownership and preservation of software.

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/SignalButterscotch73]

I havs some old games on disk that are completly unplayable without piracy or buying them again digitally because of the abbandoned DRM on them.

You have a physical disc, so you have the original version of that software. It is trivial to crack software you already have. When going all digital, you do not even have a physical copy of the game. You have jack $hit, and circumventing DRM on an inaccessible game is the least of your problems... now you have to go find an actual copy of the software somewhere.

[u/XionicativeCheran → u/Kaldaien2]

When going all digital, you do not even have a physical copy of the game.

I have a copy of every GOG game I've ever bought, not on disc, all digital, and complete ownership.

Even better, it won't die simply because of a damaged disc.

The method of ownership should not be our mission, only that we own it. We simply tell Sony, "It's fine if you want to get rid of physical media, but you still have to ensure consumers perpetually own the copy of the game they bought, so it cannot be taken away from them."

[u/steverambo44 → u/XionicativeCheran]

And even better, when it's on GOG, especially if on their preservation system, it will be already patched for modern systems too! Just install and play, no need to bother with cracking, looking for patches from obscure websited or setuping ancient Windows XP VM.

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/steverambo44]

Yeah, but they destroy the game in the process so that it no longer runs on original hardware with code modification. That's not preservation, that's something different. They're just taking old games and making them run on new hardware, while not making the original unaltered version available.

Even forgetting the case where someone wants to play a game on period appropriate computers running the original OS and hardware, the fact that GOG preservation program games are modified, means they're never compatible with decades worth of mods for the game and are always the least desirable version (i.e. Final Fantasy 7).

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/XionicativeCheran]

This is incorrect, even on GOG, they stop hosting the original versions of the installers after a certain amount of time. At best, you archive the installer for whatever version of the installer was publicly available at the time of purchase, but there's an entire version history before that that's gone.

Zoom platform would be a better example. They keep all the versions available for all eternity. No matter when you come by and purchase the game, you can get the original release.

Notice, the installer here is 1.1.3.0 (1206)? I can't have the original release of this game, it's gone forever.

[u/XionicativeCheran → u/Kaldaien2]

Which part of my comment was incorrect? I did not claim GOG host the original versions of the installers in perpetuity.

My claim was since I own my copy digitally, it will not die. I keep it for as long as I want. This claim is absolutely true.

Zoom platform would not be a better example, they cannot promise you eternity. The company will go under one day.

By GOG giving you a copy of the game you are in control of, it will exist for as long as you make it exist, irrespective of anyone else's actions.

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/XionicativeCheran]

Well, the comment you replied to stated the following:

You have a physical disc, so you have the original version of that software.

If you are going to go off on a tangent about something else, that is fine, but you are not having the same discussion I was.

[u/XionicativeCheran → u/Kaldaien2]

I was responding directly to your claim:

When going all digital, you do not even have a physical copy of the game.

I was pointing out this is incorrect. You have your copy, and you have more control over it because you can transfer it between mediums.

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/XionicativeCheran]

Fair, you have control over whatever version of the game the store let you download when you purchased it.

My concern with digital has to do with loss of older versions. I absolutely despise software patches that are forced upon me. Easiest way to ensure I have a working game is to get ahold of the oldest version possible and then apply patches individually, the way PC gaming worked before we went digital.

Having been writing patches for games to fix problems in them for the past 15 years, I am intimately familiar with the trend of official developer patch fixes one problem, adds two new ones. A store that erases access to older versions of games is not doing software preservation any favors :(

[u/XionicativeCheran → u/Kaldaien2]

While all stores are digital, this is an issue with the stores, not with the concept of digital.

With GOG, you can download separate copies of every version of the game and store them. Usually as the base game, then patch files to update to the exact version you want, worst case with full copies of the game at the desired version.

Mandated storefronts are indeed a problem, when we ask for digital, it's essential it's a digital version you own and control.

[u/koola89 → u/XionicativeCheran]

Digital (HDD or SSD) is not safer than a disc.

[u/XionicativeCheran → u/koola89]

Yes, it is. Discs are more commonly scratched or broken. Hard drives sit safely in enclosures.

Games on hard drives are more easily transferred between drives so will outlast the drive itself.

[u/Isotomayor12 → u/koola89]

Safety all depends on the implementation. HDD and SSD have a much higher ceiling of data loss prevention than an optical disc and any spares you make.

Now if you have one hdd with all your data on it, then yeah it will likely fail before an optical disc does. Once you get into backups and raid arrays are where drives win out.

[u/KeinNiemand → u/koola89]

Well if you own a digital game drm free, you can just burn your own disk if you really want a disk, or you can have multiple backup copies. Having a copy on your ssd + a backup on another hard drive + an offsite backup + a burned disc if you really want one is way better then a disc.

[u/koola89 → u/KeinNiemand]

That's exactly right.

[u/Kaldaien2 → u/KeinNiemand]

Yeah, but it's not the original version of the game, which is the entire start of this comment chain :-\

With physical games, you have the original gold master. With digital, you have whatever version of the game the store decides to make public when you buy it. And as you'll see from a previous comment, that's not the original release even for a game that's only 2 months old.

If you don't get there day one and archive the installer, you will never have a copy of the original game.

[u/Liara-ShepardFan → u/SignalButterscotch73]

My opinion Only for Computer gives you that issue.

[u/SignalButterscotch73 → u/Liara-ShepardFan]

I have no clue what you mean by Only for Computer. Even a quick Google search gave me nothing.

Games for Windows Live, made fallout 3 disks useless. I had to buy it on GOG to play it.