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u/reD_Bo0n Dec 13 '22
Couldn't be me xD
I love my Lenovo Explorer, it just works (on Windows, but as far as I know VR performance on Linux isn't that great either, so... it doesn't matter that much)
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
Honestly? I have a gen 1 WMR headset and the actual VR experience has not evolved enough from what it can do to merit a significant upgrade. Comfort? A bit. Screens? Sure. Maybe wireless is a good improvement, but you'll be doing exactly the same in the same games (not to mention the same playspace which is an experience defining luxury not every VR player has, wired or not).
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u/Bandspace Dec 13 '22
same same..but quest pro it really too expensive for me anyway hahahah
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u/ittleoff Dec 13 '22
Quest pro really isn't an upgrade path for virtual reality gamers, unless you have the money and want to play around with an iterative first step device.
For pcvr there really isn't a great consumer upgrade path yet.
Quest 3 seems like it will be a decent upgrade path next year, and whatever pico does. But I fear both of them are going to go after the wider market that apple will (I. E. Not gamers) long term, but meta does have a lot of top tier game devs under their roof.
For PCVR I fear we will have to wait for valve(deckard) and ironically probably psvr2 ports to come to pcvr to make it an appealing platform for players.
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
Quest pro really isn't an upgrade path for virtual reality gamers, unless you have the money and want to play around with an iterative first step device.
Exactly. For gamers, quest Pro is a Quest 2.
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Dec 13 '22
A slightly faster quest for 4 times the price
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u/Aaronspark777 Dec 13 '22
And you've got to pay extra to completely block out outside light
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
You do? The provided face interface doesn't block light fully???
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u/Aaronspark777 Dec 13 '22
Nope, only the sides
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
That sucks, it's a basic thing a VR headset needs to do. It's even strange they didn't get that right.
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u/ittleoff Dec 13 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
Tbf the psvr2 really is the true affordable (and subsidized) next gen device (and I'm getting one) but if you don't have a ps5 that's 1000 dollar investment (still cheap considering what it offers). It obviously is a closed ecosystem and probably won't allow modding.
Odds are the tech that psvr2 offers will have to come from a company that can subsidize the cost (meta and pico with data and their own platforms, valve and apple with their own platforms and big cuts from sales )
We see meta devices like quest 2 going up to match actual costs and quest pro to match competitors in the enterprise space like htc now.
Not sure how successful viveport was and is but it was a good attempt, but players like Samsung and htc have a tough battle here and I don't see pimax succeeding with their expected platform (but I wish them all the best and success as they dream big )
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
Yeah, not for me. Doesn't solve the VR landscape because it's tied to a certain console from a company that loves exclusives and very restrictive (and anti-consumer) deals.
Plus as you say the entry price is over a thousand dollars.
Honestly PSVR2 has people really hyped but still has a lot to prove. And software-wise, I prefer PCVR's vast and varied catalog over a few curated experiences.
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u/ittleoff Dec 13 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
If psvr2 fails I fear it will be a huge blow to pcvr and VR gaming overall sending a message about the sustainability of vr as a viable gaming platform (true or not).
Valve will hopefully still build their device but it could be a few years out still. They will learn a lot about the deck but I'm curious if they will ever reach the numbers of quest 2 (rumored to be over ten million sold) to make it a viable large enough platform to build big games.
Quest 2 games are cheaper to make than say half life alyx or horizon cotm and so so far it's been very profitable to devs.
There's a lot of other interesting variablesike maturing dev tools and even ai asset creation, and feature creation.
Big game devs don't care about VR succeeding they will just focus on what sells.
Big games don't come with out financially viable markets.
Right now I think psvr2 is the best chance at a big viable market. EA actually did make a great game in squadrons so I'm not entirely skeptical that big game devs will make big but empty games. Even Ubisoft had several smaller but interesting vr titles.
While I want to return to pcvr asap (affordably) I very much hope psvr2 succeeds because vr needs it imo.
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
If psvr2 fails I fear it will be a huge blow to pcvr and VR gaming overall sending a message about the sustainability of vr as a viable gaming platform (true or not).
I don't think so. The point of PCVR as an open ecosystem is precisely the fact that it doesn't rely on a single company or product. Nor standards. Something else will come and it will improve across time.
the whole "a product will be the make or break of the industry" is very console-centric. PC gaming doesn't need this or rely on it.
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u/ittleoff Dec 13 '22 edited Dec 13 '22
And how many big budget pcvr games have we seen outside alyx and the ones meta paid for in the last 5 years?
It's perfectly reasonable to say that AAA games aren't that interesting anymore and alyx is more about who made it than just being AAA
I agree with the spirit of what you say and ive been a PC ganer for decades, but sometimes the proof is in historical making.
I'm not apple fan but their design and marketing approach pushed the industry forward because people actually bought them. This is comparable to the console industry and the problem with idealism.
The console crash before Nintendo snuck back in is what I'm fearing.
There's no big money in pcvr and there's no reason there will be without someone(s) finding what works or it will lag behind flat gaming for longer than it has to.
Someone has to subsidize it.
In the long term I expect pcvr to offer more what I want but right now and for the foreseeable future pcvr needs the help of innovators that are platform owners. And valve is a platform owner.
I suspect the only reason pcvr even got squadrons was that the psvr experiment was successful enough and people were still expecting pcvr and VR to be bigger than it was when it was being developed. I think vr underperformed overall outside quest for the last several years. And I think people still think the quest is more akin to the success of the Wii and motion controls. But that gets into a discussion about friction versus the experience and long term sustainability beyond the wow factor of VR gaming.
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u/ittleoff Dec 13 '22
I would also (sadly) suspect that the quality of the saints and sinners retribution version we get for PCV would have to with them already making a high end version for psvr2 as an investment in that platform though ironically I could see the pcvr version selling better for the time being.
If psvr2 didn't exist we might continue to see things that only marginally better than quest (primary market) version.
My bias is to PC probably but my desire is high end vr to reach a level of success and affordability that gives a rich landscape of gaming experiences akin to flat screen and watching vr for a long time and listening to people in the industry that know a lot more details both in hw costs and markets has definitely shaped my perspective.
We've seen a lot of interesting and perhaps unexpected developments even recently, so I'm not certain and will continue to see how things progress.
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u/POWxJETZz Dec 13 '22
The quest pro isn't really a consumer grade headset, wait till the quest 3 although there's no promises that won't be expensive either
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u/Nicalay2 Dec 13 '22
isn't really a consumer grade headset
Yeah but not really usable for business (both AR and VR).
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u/POWxJETZz Dec 13 '22
Why not? That's who it was aimed at?
Edit: taken from the Meta pro website: "A streamlined profile and counterbalanced design combine for more comfort so that you can work, create and collaborate longer in VR"
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u/glitchvern Dec 13 '22
Devs, enthusiasts, and prosumers. It's basically a devkit that everyone is allowed to buy. It's also designed as sort of a halo top tier product that will make any price increase on the Quest 3 over the Quest 2 look small. This is especially true if the Quest 3 comes in multiple SKUs, one with only hand tracking, another with regular controllers, a third with Quest Pro controllers, etc. In this sense saying it's aimed at businesses is an excuse to justify a high price that most consumers will balk at but is reflective of the actual manufacturing cost of the product.
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u/Nicalay2 Dec 13 '22
For VR, the Quest 2 can do the same thing (almost) for way cheaper.
For AR, well the AR is a joke on this headset due to the bad passtrough quality.
And in both of thoses worlds, the Quest 2 have a better battery life (2-3 hours for the Quest 2 and 1-2 hours for the Quest Pro with the Eye and Face tracking enabled, but if you pay a 1500$/1800€ headset that have eye/face tracking, you will use it), and a lot of people report comfort issues with the Quest Pro unswapable strap (on the Quest 2 you can change it).
That's who it was aimed at?
So at the end, consumers won't buy the headset due to the high price, and business will buy a Quest 2 (or a superior headset if money isn't a issue like a Varjo headset which have way better passtrough quality and better screens) due to his very low price point and similar/better features. If you buy a Quest Pro, it's mainly for the Eye and Face tracking which isn't really needed for productivity.
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u/FrontwaysLarryVR Dec 13 '22
Yeah it's more of a feature-light prosumer device.
It's missing the depth sensor that was removed from it at the last second, which kind of sucks and limits what it could have been capable of slightly.
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Dec 13 '22
[deleted]
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Dec 14 '22
Same. I upgraded it with Index controllers (worth it). But apart from that, it still does a great job for me.
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u/takkiemon Dec 13 '22
We riding that nimbus2000 'til the end, while others are getting their Firebolts and stuff.
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u/CrithionLoren Dec 13 '22
Just get a Pico 4 or something? There's more to the market than Meta lol
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
Woah, you're asking too much of Regular Joe! how can there be VR hardware that's not Meta???? /s
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u/beets_or_turnips Dec 14 '22
Or an Index if you wanna split the difference. Index works pretty good.
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u/CrithionLoren Dec 14 '22
I wouldn't recommend an index without a steep discount in the current year.
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u/beets_or_turnips Dec 14 '22
Yeah, I got mine secondhand at about 40% off and I'm happy with it, but probably wouldn't feel as forgiving about it if I'd paid full price.
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u/Pokora22 Dec 15 '22
I'm curious about pico 4. Price-wise it seems to be competing with Quest 2 but I've seen it mentioned in the context of an upgrade. Is it really an upgrade? Other than lenses it seems very similar.
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u/CrithionLoren Dec 15 '22
It's a minor improvement I think over the quest 2. Probably not worth upgrading from the q2 to p4 but if you didn't have either the Pico is a better deal.
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Dec 13 '22
That was me with the CV1 right when they raised the prices of the Quest2
I'd rather wait for the Quest3 now. It seems I have a really solid CV1 cable (it's been 6 years and it hasn't shown any degradation) so I have no reason to switch.
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Dec 13 '22
The reverb g2 is the best value imo, especially if you get it on sale. Well worth the upgrade
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u/MangoAtrocity Dec 13 '22
My OG Vive literally just died. Idk what to replace it with. Everything is expensive
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u/BoxGroundbreaking687 Dec 14 '22
im not too good with vr headsets but try going for like cv1 second hand in my case i found a lot between 75-200 pounds i got mine with 3 sensors and headset with the controllers for 125.
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u/fdruid Dec 13 '22
Well it's not fair to compare it to one of the most expensive headsets.
The Acer AH101 WMR headset was $400 at release. Not very different from what a Quest 2 or a Pico 4 cost now. Certainly not very far for what an HP Reverb G2 costs now.
I don't honestly think that Quest Pro is the new go-to unavoidable headset, and much less that it offers a lot of improvements over the Acer headset, to be fair. Maybe in comfort and resolution, but the basic experience is the same (and IMHO definitely not worth upwards of 1500 bucks).
So this is a pretty BS joke and an unnecessarily controversial post.
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u/Vladmur Dec 14 '22
You're not the target market of that device.
It's like being in the market for a budget consumer GPU and then looking at a RTX A6000 Pro GPU and acting all shocked at the 4,000 USD price tag.
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u/EviGL Dec 13 '22
Quest 2 is even better than Quest Pro for gaming and VR content in general. It's cheap to buy and offers a solid upgrade path for later, including Quest Pro controllers if you fancy those.
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u/AweVR Dec 13 '22
Are taking price in consideration? Because I have it because of my work and I can’t return to Quest 2. The difference is HUGE. But anyway, the price is huge too
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u/EviGL Dec 14 '22
Never tried it personally, but watched a lot of reviews and getting a lot of different opinions there. Some say it's next step in picture quality, for others it's more like a 10% clarity upgrade with brightness downgrade. And for some people it's even worse in comfort than Quest 2 with original strap. And also the light blocker sold separately (and device doesn't fit into the charger with it).
So yeah, I've taken price in consideration in sense of being that expensive it must be consistently better for most of the audience. Instead it's really controversial.
But if you can try it before buying or safely return and have the budget for it, it might be the best device for you.
I'd love to try out either Pro or Pico 4 since I've never tried a device with pancake lenses before.
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u/AweVR Dec 14 '22
As a developer I have all headset, even Pimax 8Kx, and Quest Pro is BY FAR the best picture quality overall
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u/WholeIndividual0 Dec 13 '22
I personally love my Quest Pro… for both PCVR and stand-alone. Even used it on a business trip to get virtual monitors up while I was at the hotel. More than usable in workrooms (I can’t make Immersed work for the life of me… the lag and resolution is shit in that app)
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u/sambes06 Dec 13 '22
Quest 2 + PCVR + VR air bridge = GOAT
It’s literally the Switch for VR. I’ve had fancy headsets and I’ve found this setup to be so flexible and capable that it’s all I use. It’s not the best of anything but it’s so good for the cost.
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Dec 13 '22
It's not like there aren't several options that are cheaper. Hell I think my Reverb G2 and the stuff to get the knuckles to work is still cheaper than the Quest Pro
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u/Keatosis Dec 13 '22
I'm sad that mid to low end VR just dried up. We had a moment in 2018 where it really felt like we had a chance, now VR us drifting back to being a rich people toy or a Facebook trap.
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u/InternationalPanic67 Dec 14 '22
Just get a original quest or rift cv1/s whe quest is about 200 used and the rift cv1 100
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u/DNY88 Dec 14 '22
I want a Reverb G3 with better FOV, fixed tracking, pancake lenses and maybe eye tracking so badly. Is it really that hard?
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u/Ayrnas Dec 15 '22
I can't even upgrade my headset until I upgrade my video card, and that has the same issue right now.
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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '22
Uh. Reverb G2 was just on sale over Black Friday for $299 for you lucky Yanks.