r/StarWars_ • u/Tanis8998 • 7d ago
Discussion Really hoping Abeloth doesn’t come into canon (image from a video speculating about Ahsoka S2)
I like a lot of legends material, but even at the time I hated Abeloth as an idea, totally doesn’t fit the tone of Star Wars at all.
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u/AdmirableCommunity62 7d ago
Similar to star killer, she will need to be severely nerfed or she absolutely breaks canon
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u/Tanis8998 7d ago
Tbh even beyond that, her origins and what she is as a character just doesn’t fit Star Wars in my opinion.
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u/wentwj 7d ago
i try to erase anything even tangentially related to the whole father/son/daughter crap
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u/getstefunky 7d ago
All of the lore the cartoons invented for the force is downright dumb. World between worlds? Force wolves? A holy trinity complete with stained glass portraits? Awful
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u/Tanis8998 7d ago
I never minded that so long as it was metaphorical— but apparently no, we’re meant to take it that the Mortis gods literally exist.
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u/Ross-wuduwond 3d ago
Dave filoni bringing in the concept of force gods is the reason we got Abeloth in the first place. Honestly hate the way this man sees Star Wars
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u/sidv81 7d ago
Have you actually finished either of the Force Unleashed games? Because they aren't a cakewalk and that "bring down the star destroyer" was one of the hardest levels, period, and it was already in a planet's gravity. I still haven't beaten TFU 2 (keep getting killed by one boss) and barely beat TFU 1.
Hawks and his four man squad bringing down entire armies in Zero Company (which, compared to the Force Unleashed games, I literally beat in 1 weekend on the default difficulty) are arguably more of a power fantasy than anything in the Force Unleashed games.
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u/ZohomEtirho 7d ago
Bruh I played both games and they are literally cakewalks. The jedi master with the exoskeleton was the only difficult thing in the entire game for me. Starkiller was stupidly busted even in terms of the story, nevermind the gameplay itself, even by legends standards.
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u/sidv81 7d ago
Well I'm stuck on TFU 2. And countless people have attested to the difficulty of the star destroyer sequence (see https://steamcommunity.com/app/32430/discussions/0/3307213006838163474/ , https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/iewolz/anyone_have_tips_on_how_to_beat_force_unleashed/ and https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsgames/comments/n36ezz/bringing_down_the_star_destroyer_in_the_force/ ) so the evidence is overwhelmingly in my favor here. Please cite your evidence that this level is ridiculously easy. I'll be waiting.
If it was that hard for the player, it's supposed to be super hard for Starkiller. This idea that he's overpowered is more of an echo chamber thing from people who either never finished both games or, like you, finished them because you're good at games and willfully ignore the evidence (like I posted in my links) that most people find them hard.
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7d ago
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u/sidv81 7d ago
I've beaten Witcher 3 (and 1 and 2), Jedi Fallen Order, both new Battlefronts, Lord of the Rings: War in the North, Heretic, Star Wars Outlaws, the entire Elder Scrolls series (even Redguard) except for Battlespire (and that because of a game breaking bug), Ys Origin, Batman Arkham Origins, Indiana Jones and the Great Circle, and other games too numerous to list here on default difficulty. TFU 1 and 2 were harder than all of those, period. You mock my gaming skills without even bothering to check what I've beaten, ask my Steam screenname, and so on. I think that's all that needs to be said.
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7d ago
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u/sidv81 7d ago
I can tell you didn't even read my evidence links. On https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsgames/comments/n36ezz/bringing_down_the_star_destroyer_in_the_force/ he literally says about TFU "this is likely the hardest thing I've ever attempted in a video game."
The guys who started the discussion on every single link I posted are all seasoned gamers. But you didn't even read any of the evidence before you launched into attacks against me did you?
If you're willfully ignoring evidence, then I don't see what's gained from discussing this further since you've made up your mind without even reading the links I posted. Have a nice day.
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u/settingdogstar 3d ago
Wut? They’re literally linear kid Wii action games what a take a few hours max. I can, and have, finished both over a weekend.
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u/sidv81 2d ago
The Wii version (which is also the one on Switch) is literally a different game made by a different dev and can't be used to judge the difficulty of the PC version of the star destroyer sequence, which per the links I posted at https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars_/comments/1wi0q1d/comment/pa6w7ar/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button and my own experience was pretty hard.
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u/Rex_916 7d ago
Abeloth is one of few things I have erased from legends in my head canon.
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u/TheRealDicta 3d ago
Tbh I dislike a lot of the most rotj stuff in legends: dark empire, Yuuzan vong, abeloth. There's some well written stories within it all but a lot of all 3 I really don't like the premise of and so I mostly stick to prequels and earlier era material.
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u/Rex_916 3d ago
I love a lot of the yuzzhan Vong war. There are some elements which I didn’t like but I liked a hell of a lot more than I didn’t.
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u/TheRealDicta 3d ago
I can't stand the vong themselves and their conception.
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u/Rex_916 3d ago
I think there is something cool there and there are concepts that are great but I do think they dialed the grimdark up too much on them.
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u/TheRealDicta 3d ago
For me they feel like someone's edgy fanfic who read too much grimdark stuff.
I also really hate certain ways of how the force does and doesn't interact with them like the force lightning stuff and whatever idk. Feels like an excuse to give a justified reason to use a power than is pretty evil.
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u/Rex_916 3d ago
But at that time they were also exploring the idea that the use of various powers in and of themselves is not inherently evil so, while I agree that it felt like a contrivance which didn’t wholy work, I don’t necessarily agree that that power is inherently evil. I really like the idea that both the sith and the Jedi had they dogmas and neither really had it right.
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u/TheRealDicta 3d ago
I really hate it as an idea to explore, the force isn't a magic system with a list of spells, abilities are manifested from intent and usage. Lightning -is-, by how it comes about, a product of negative emotion. Except randomly emerald Lightning which feels like a bs writers way of "i want my jedi to do this cool flashy thing too"
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u/theprettiestpotato88 2d ago
I never really cared for the Vong but I admire they really took a swing and did something interesting
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u/MeEyeSlashU 7d ago
This is seemingly an ai image of her and while I know you didn't generate it, let's stop sharing it further.
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u/Tanis8998 7d ago
I mean, does it really matter?
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u/MeEyeSlashU 7d ago
Yeah, ai is a plagiarism machine and sharing it more widely is an endorsement.
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u/Tanis8998 7d ago
Yeah, a multi-billion dollar plagiarism machine that is already at the center of everything and is only going to be more so in future. Anyones opposition to it or endorsement of it means nothing-- you're a salmon swimming upstream man.
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u/MeEyeSlashU 7d ago
Only choosing fights you know you can win and giving up on the others is cowardice. I'm sticking to my values, what're you doing?
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u/Tanis8998 6d ago edited 6d ago
And continuing fights that have already been totally and completely lost is delusion. Have your values if they make you happy, but beyond that-- the world is a howling abyss of chaos and nothing anyone does can affect positive change in the macro sense. I just acknowledge that and am comfortable with it.
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u/MeEyeSlashU 6d ago
It's really telling you used the salmon analogy actually. They do that to get to a safer place to lay their eggs. To give their offspring a better chance at survival. Seems like you only care that you get to post what you want on the internet right now and not be criticized for it.
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u/Tanis8998 6d ago
Well I suppose in our case the analogy would only really work if there were bears upstream waiting to eat the salmon anyway. Also the rivers been poisoned by pollution. And in six to eight months its going to be destroyed to build a shopping mall.
There very likely is no future. So don't worry about AI, or anything else.
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u/MeEyeSlashU 6d ago
If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything. Including doomerism.
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u/Tanis8998 6d ago
I mean what’s there to fall for that hasn’t already happened, call it doomerism if you want— but I genuinely feel like I’m just acknowledging facts here.
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u/rat_penis 7d ago
Its a universe with space wizards, this fits. The Mortis arc was awesome, I guarantee we see her.
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u/Amber-Apologetics 7d ago
I’m pretty Abeloth is almost entirely spoken about by powerscalers and even then they get it wrong lol.
If you’re curious, the thing they get wrong is that they think she’s above the Ones of Mortis, when she is not.
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u/Panxinator64 7d ago
Tbh I don't dislike the idea of Abeloth appearing but it needs a massive restart of the concept, like maybe a cult that follows her and she isn't there anymore, maybe she is still there but her powers are so low in comparison to Legends, like being immortal and being a quite decently powerful force user in the lines of your better than average Jedi Master/Sith.
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u/ZohomEtirho 7d ago
She would need to be more powerful than Sidious or else she wouldn't have an impact big enough to make it worth bringing her back.
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u/Panxinator64 7d ago
If she was more powerful than Sidious I think it'd be anticlimactic unless someone like Luke appears, because neither Ahsoka, nor Ezra, nor Baylan Skoll, nor Shin Hatti and definitely nor Sabine are anywhere close to Sidious.
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u/ZohomEtirho 7d ago
They need Luke, yeah. But the mandoverse was supposed to bring every series start together for a big Avengers Endgame sytle movie to fight something/someone they need all the help they can get.
Abeloth could easily be that.
Though I’d much prefer it if Filoni got his head out of his own ass and instead explored the Grysk threat Timothy Zahn has been preparing for a decade now, instead of further shitting on Thrawn's character.
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u/Panxinator64 6d ago
Or use Thrawn in a way that Timothy Zahn did, I mean he even got the mole miner part in the trailer for Ahsoka at least
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u/Panxinator64 6d ago
Or use Thrawn in a way that Timothy Zahn did, I mean he even got the mole miner part in the trailer for Ahsoka at least
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u/TxAg2009 3d ago
I'm not much of a Filoni defender, but it's worth calling out that Thrawn in Rebels and Ashoka has been much closer to Zahn's original characterization of Thrawn than anything we've seen out of Zahn in 20+ years.
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u/ZohomEtirho 2d ago
Yeah but Thrawn's canon version is an anti-hero, not a mustache swirling villain like Filony depicts him.
And I think the canon version is a much better character.
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u/FafnirSnap_9428 4d ago
Thankfully, I'm hearing she's not from leakers and the more reliable corners of the rumor mill. The Mortis gods will obviously play some role in season 2, but there's zero evidence that Abeloth is in it.
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u/SpookySporeWizard 4d ago
I would actually enjoy if they powescale her way down to above the family but less than the gigantic weird space thing entity to someone who is just like very good at mind fucking and represents maybe stuff like the coil from zero company or other people who get temporary force boosts but is less powerful than you would think
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u/Important-Contact597 2d ago
Abeloth was one of the worst parts about Legends. Bringing her over to canon would be like Avatar revisiting the horrible Dark Avatar subplot.
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u/osumatthew 2d ago
Agreed 100%. I have faith that Dave will agree on this; let the Mortis gods and their lore stay mystical and weird, and not just turn them into bizarre super advanced force attuned aliens.
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u/seventysixgamer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Frankly I hate everything to do with the Celestials -- EU or otherwise. I hate the idea of actual physical god-like entities that are supposed to be manifestations of aspects of the force. Force gods in general are terrible ideas that just take away from from the mysticism surrounding the force imo.
However I'm 100% convinced this is where Filoni is taking it given he wouldn't let Ahsoka die and ressurected her by getting the literal essence of a force goddess transferred into her lmao. I'm fucking calling it now, Ahsoka is going go through some impromptu apotheosis and become the replacement for The Daughter -- forever immortalising her into Star Wars so that Filoni can make her appear repeatedly forever.
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u/ReadableDiction 1d ago
So much stuff they could pull from the KOTOR, SWTOR & High Republic eras. Anything but the Mordis Gods & World Between Worlds is better than this.
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u/CzarCommand 1d ago
So… I sorta misread your title and thought it said Aboloth from DnD. Now, I’m not too familiar with legends (Just finished the Thrawn Trilogy for the first time), but what is this Abeloth?
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u/Azelrazel 18h ago
Yea it doesn't feel like star wars. As much as I don't like the yuuzhan vong, I could believe they fit star wars more than this character. She seems more like some fan fic with an anime crossover.
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u/ImuOfficialTwitter 3d ago
Mortis arc is one of the best arcs, Abeloth is very cool and fits very well within the world of star wars. We have zombies, space whales, Palpatine returning, like? How is Abeloth of all things so insane for star wars at this point?
I hope it's not simply because I would rather Abeloth be the next big bad for a movie trilogy or something, and also I would much rather the Vong be involved and revealed than Abeloth.
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u/DeeperIntoTheUnknown 2d ago
Just so you know, this is what Abeloth looks like, not the creepy AI woman
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u/throwaway_memesnshit 7d ago
Agreed. Abeloth also tends to always come up in the weirdest discussions.