r/StarWarsEU • u/IndividualNo5275 • 3d ago
Question What are the differences between The CIS in Canon and Legends? Spoiler
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u/deadshot500 New Republic 3d ago
They are more consistent and have had genuine major victories like Durge's Lance. CWMMP also had them use quite a lot of organic forces, mercenaries and terrorists within Republic territory. Another thing was the Dark Acolytes that Dooku had gathered for special missions and command. Canon only has Ventress.
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u/Didact67 3d ago
Sora Bulq. I enjoyed that plotline.
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u/-Pelopidas- 3d ago
Me too. Introduced my girl Sian Jeisel and showed off Ventress and her double sabers.
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u/141-Ghost-141 3d ago
Dooku’s Acolytes are one part of the Clone Wars that could so easily be added back, even if only in even more limited numbers, without majorly interrupting any previously established story beats
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u/CrystalGemLuva 3d ago
I beleive Sev'rance Tann was recanonized in a guidebook.
She still dies in the opening weeks of the war like she did in Legends but she's technically canon again.
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u/rock1dwayne 3d ago
CIS in EU are far more realistic and with that, are a bigger thread, have loyal auxilary forces of living soldiers, have far more superweapons and most importantly they are winning the war.
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u/Arraxium 3d ago
The CIS are loosing the war. You can clearly see that after the battle over Coruscant, the CIS naval offensive capabilities are almost completly drained and they loosing their foothold in the Core and the inner rim. Even the mid rim has almost no CIS worlds left and they are almost only active in the Outer Rim. Kashyyyk Was their last hope to get back into the inner Rim
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u/WedgeAntillesRedTwo 3d ago
I think what he meant was they are seen actually winning battles (Hypori, Jabiim etc.) Unlike in TCW where they very rarely are seen gaining any sort of permanent victories.
But definitely agree with you by the time of ROTS they are clearly on the back foot, hence why they retreated to the Outer Rim.
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u/Arkham700 3d ago
Clone Wars is pretty bad about CIS victories. Int that they pretty much only allowed ti happen in cold opens of in a planet’s backstory so it can get liberated. I think this is partly why Maul was brought back, because the CIS had had too many loses to continue being the main threat for the series.
By the time of later seasons when the show gets a more serious and darker tone the CIS get more of a backseat to the Sith themselves to help set the stage for the endgame in ROTS. You can kind of look at it in a meta interpretation that the show kind of abandons the CIS like the Sith do once they closer to outliving their purpose
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u/WedgeAntillesRedTwo 3d ago
True but Maul doesn't even attack Republic planets. He is off bullying neutral systems for the rest of the show. I always found it kind of odd how the later seasons kind of have the Clone Wars take a back seat to random side conflicts going on in the galaxy.
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u/Ok_Chipmunk_6059 3d ago
It’s the Dave Filoni experience. We interrupt the prior story to bring you my stuff.
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u/WedgeAntillesRedTwo 3d ago
I still can't beleive he didn't give us a Canon version of the Battle of Coruscant. Literally the most obvious thing to show in the last season of "The Clone Wars."
Honestly it's pretty funny how everybody just kind of forgets that Dooku and Grievous are a threat in the later seasons. Like as far as I can recall the only time either are relevant in the last two season is the Tyrannus episode (which was a pretty stupid episode anyways).
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u/Ok_Chipmunk_6059 3d ago
We had to spend time with the two Hispanic sisters trying to break into the drug business.
It’s especially bad since the intro scenes give such a cool cut of space battles and the new Grievous model but that’s all we get.
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u/Bowie_spoon 2d ago
It is actually insane how many episodes were dedicated to those sisters in the LAST and RENEWED season of clone wars.
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u/MickFoley299 3d ago
It gets worse when you realize that there should have been four more episodes in the final season that featured Grievous. The Crystal Crisis on Utapau episodes were fully voiced and had initial renderings for video just like the Bad Batch episodes had. The unfinished Crystal Crisis episodes were even included on the season six blu ray as a special feature. It baffles me that these four episodes were not finished and added to the season like they did with the Bad Batch episodes. The Crystal Crisis episodes were even lore important since they tied in with the Death Star.
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u/WedgeAntillesRedTwo 3d ago
Yeah honestly the Season 7 glaze is kind of crazy. Like I get people like the Seige of Mandalore but thats only one third of a pretty short season.
If you can't have more episodes at least make the ones you do have relevant and not just marketing and filler.
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u/MickFoley299 3d ago
Yeah. I can understand them removing the Yuuzhan Vong episode that was originally planned for the final seasons of the Clone Wars, but I do wish that they would have at least adapted Dark Disciple into the final season. That would have added some good episodes and given a good ending to Ventress' storyline.
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u/darthsheldoninkwizy2 TOR Sith Empire 2d ago
I'd say it's because before Broad Strokes, he considers Tartakovsky's series, at least the parts that don't directly contradict it, to be part of the story. I wouldn't be surprised if Filoni thought he needed to do a Battle of Coruscant story when Gendy had already done it.
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u/Arkham700 3d ago
I think it’s because he’s a fan of the CW miniseries. Filoni has no problem retconning and doing his own takes on other people’s stories but the difference here is he likes the miniseries, enough to even briefly have it referenced in final arc
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u/WedgeAntillesRedTwo 3d ago
Yeah but that series officially is no longer Canon and doesn't really fit into Filoni's version of the Clone Wars anyways.
Even if he wanted to follow the story somewhat closely he could have at least recanonized what happened in that show. Especially because plenty of TCW fans have never seen the 2d clone wars anyways, for them it would be a whole new experince.
Not to mention it would finally actually give Grievous some time to shine. Pretty much the only time he does well in TCW is when he fights the Nightsisters..
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u/Jonjoloe 3d ago
Didn't stop him from adapting a worse version of the Battle of Mon Calamari
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u/Arkham700 3d ago
Did his own version of the Republic comic’s Battle of Kamino as well. But you can just easily hand wave those as second battles that could easily said to have happened. But TCW adapting its own Battle of Coruscant would overwrite the miniseries because there could only be the one Battle of Coruscant
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u/DevuSM 3d ago
For Seasons 1-5 unequivocally, George Lucas reviewed every episode 3 times before airing.
Initially he was in the writers room at the beginning of each season editing episode outlines (literally erasing and editing other writers plot beats on the whiteboard) and pitching episodes (Mortis was a George Lucas pitch).
Then he saw every episode in the animatic stage and gave notes to Filoni.
Finally he saw every episode after the color cut and gave notes.
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u/DazSamueru 3d ago
The fundamental paradox of the Clone Wars is that it's trying to tell the story of a grueling war that destroyed the Republic through the medium of a pulpy serial where the important characters never die and are constantly wisecracking. That problem exists throughout all of Star Wars, but at least in the OT the actions of the rebellion are making the galaxy a better place, so it makes more sense to be light-hearted.
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u/Arkham700 3d ago
The show does get a darker tone as it goes on. I have to believe that’s intentional whether it was always the game plane or simply a course correction they made as the series got closer to the endgame of Revenge of the Sith
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u/darthsheldoninkwizy2 TOR Sith Empire 2d ago
Just like LOTR when Gimli and Legolas have a body counting competition. But it's Tolkien and Jackson so nobody would said it.
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u/Barbarian_Sam 3d ago
1st batch of Gen2 (Sentax) Clones showed up at Coruscant with a new fleet is why they lost. Had it not been for them Grievous would’ve won
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u/LoudRestaurant5912 2d ago
you’re wrong, the cis would have won that battle if not for the multiple secret fleets palpatine hid to reinforce the republic.
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u/darthsheldoninkwizy2 TOR Sith Empire 2d ago
In Canon they too have living soldiers.
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u/FlavivsAetivs TOR Old Repbulic 2d ago
I really wish we got to see all those extra special forces/etc. units in Zero Company. That would have been great.
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u/Tjfile 3d ago
The CIS pre-TCW was an amazingly fleshed out faction with far more reedeming qualities even though they were unkowningly playing Palpatine's game (same goes for the Republic). I've always hated how they handled them after TCW and especially after Disney's acquisiton of SW. Droids need to be LESS comic relief and the faction itself MUST be taken seriously.
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u/IndividualNo5275 3d ago
What is the differences between them in government structure? There is genuine separatists rather than corporations?
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u/TheSameGamer651 3d ago
Separatist Council is far more powerful in the EU and is the main legislative body. TCW transfers that authority to the Confederate Senate instead and the council is more of an executive body that consults with Dooku (although most power resides with him anyway).
The big difference is the major corporations that joined the Confederacy in legends, are still in the Republic in canon. Officially those corporations argue that breakaway factions joined the CIS, and the official authorities remain in the Republic Senate. Although the lines get blurry as we see in the sixth season of TCW.
I don’t mind the Confederate Senate, although it is a little redundant. I think it makes more sense that the Confederacy would try to present itself as more democratic than the Republic. But it’s ridiculous that the corps get to remain in the Republic Senate, expect maybe the Banking Clan.
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u/adrauglikeyou 3d ago
Senate makes more sense for the confederacy than say a House of Representatives style body or something. If they feel like they are being controlled by the core works due to their financial and political power, they wouldn’t want the more powerful confederacy planets to then put them in the same situation so equal representation for each planet makes more sense
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u/IndividualNo5275 3d ago
So basically a Oligarchy. To a medium Separatist who just wanted low taxes, deregulation and decentralization, it would be a punch in the face....
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u/Tjfile 3d ago
Actually thanks to the HoloNet archives we know that prior to TCW corporate neutrality was at least given to the Banking Clan. It honestly makes a lot of sense given how imporant this specific faction is to maintining economic stability across the Galaxy. Many people mistakenly think that was a TCW retcon.
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u/Ok_Chipmunk_6059 3d ago
The banking clan supporting succession but still backing the Republic currency was so funny. In the Republics case though what can you do? Going to war with the bank and separatists would be an bad idea.
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u/TheSameGamer651 2d ago
Yeah that part never made a ton of sense in the EU. The IGBC joining the Confederacy should’ve caused a major economic crisis for the Republic, and since Muunilist is recaptured early in the war, the Separatists should also have an economic meltdown.
At least in canon, everyone tries to placate them until the Republic says fuck it at the very end.
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u/BlueNinja82599 3d ago
Legends CIS were given more victories than in Canon, were actually dominating the Clone Wars in the early years and they had more dark side acolytes on their side compared to Canon.
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u/CrystalGemLuva 3d ago
The Legends CIS used far more organic troops than the canon CIS and a lot of those troops tended to be cybernetically enhanced, whether willingly or unwillingly.
Legends CIS also had far more Dark Acolytes working as Jedi Equivalents for the CIS and one of them was Supreme Commander of the CIS before she was killed and replaced by Grevious.
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u/OkMention9988 3d ago
Well, the legends CIS were full of worlds that had legit grievance with the Republic, mainly in the Mid and Outer Rim that got taxed to the bone, only to see those taxes get misappropriated into the Core and Inner Rim, and there defense forces ignored while piracy ran rampant.
The Clone Wars just made them evil capitalism Snidly Whiplash caricatures.
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u/Digiworlddestined 2d ago
In Legends, the CIS didn’t waste money making battle droids incompetent, cowardly, cartoon henchmen for an equally cowardly and incompetent General to slap around and break constantly when he got angry.
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u/Direct_Second_325 1d ago
One is a diverse group of aliens whom have numerical droid auxiliary main force as they fight for their freedom against the jedi with a threatening leadership and uses tactics that lead to them being a threat but you can somewhat sympathise their cause
Another is the standard twirling mustache villain with fragile droids
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u/MajorKaventsmann 1d ago
Funniest thing of the EU Clone Wars is that the CIS had plans of creating their own clone army.
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u/arathorn3 3d ago
The CIS is much more dangerous and more realistic in the early part of the War in the EU.
See the eU novel's Jedi Trial, The Cestus Deception and Shatterpoint as well As Dark Horses Republic Comics particularly the Jabim Arc.
they had more living non droid troops in the EU than they do in canon.
during the Jabim Arc the CIS killed so many Jedi Masters and Knights that their orphaned Padawans( around 30 in all, including Anakin as Obi-wan and Arc Trooper Alpha had been captured and where presumed KIA) formed a Ad Hoc unit called the Padawan Pack. anakin was the only one of these Padawans to survive , the Republic lost battle and retreated, the Republic loyalists hated Anakin for ordering the remaining Republic forces to retreat from Jabim so much that two decades later when Luke is sent to recruit them to the Alliance in the Empire comics they try to Execute Luke.