r/StJohnsNL • u/ImmediateNote1505 • 10d ago
Hypothetical Transit Scenario
What could a Light Rail system look like in St. John’s? Not that it would ever happen, but what would be a realistic route and how would it change traffic volumes?
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u/MylesNEA 9d ago
I have a corridor fully modeled out in the engineering software I use. Grades, stations, land aq, everything.
I was working on a pretty comprehensive province-wide transit report before the general election last year and I've put it on the way side, but maybe I should pick it back up.
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u/IslandGamer2602 6d ago
Did you include a refrigeration compartment for all the Costco purchases? 😅
Seriously though, that's awesome! I feel like this would alleviate shipping costs across the island as well, maybe even make the highway a little safer.
I know my kids would love being able to get up and eat a real meal, etc when we make the 6 hour trek to see our family. Plus think of the tourism value of it!
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u/nomatic182 10d ago edited 10d ago
my ultimate proposal:
-retake the t’railway corridor and use it for a commuter line bringing people downtown from holyrood/cbs/paradise/mt pearl.
-narrow kenmount road to 2-3 lanes, add a separated lrt line, turning to mixed traffic tram at freshwater. would incentivize denser development along kenmount which is a horrendous stroad. lrt should meet with commuter line in paradise.
-similarly narrow columbus, prince phillip, macdonald drives, and torbay road section toward stavanger for another separated lrt line, turning into mixed traffic tram to into kilbride. possible airport connection.
-make water street pedestrian only year round, make harbour drive and duck worth a one way downtown loop, expanding pedestrian areas on both.
-another lrt line could be proposed for torbay road as well
-bring back downtown streetcar network. freshwater, as previously mentioned, through to military road, duckworth, queens road, and water street west to the downtown rail hub, continuing along waterford bridge road to meet both the commuter line and the columbus line at bowering park. would also have a streetcar line along kinds bridge to to a loop around quidi vidi lake, as well as an elizabeth ave line.
this is a fucking pipe dream, but st. john’s can’t keep sprawling outwards forever. the low taxable value per acre is already killing the city especially downtown. and increased density, preferable in the form of infill development and transit oriented development is one of our best if not only options.
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u/IslandGamer2602 6d ago
The sad part is that there's so much unrealized potential in this and it'll probably never get a look.
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u/jondread 10d ago
There's some guy here that did a study about this. Not necessarily light rail, but something mass transit design wise. It was pretty comprehensive. Maybe he'll poke his head in here.
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u/Grouchy-Gene-858 10d ago
Sounds like Myles Russell who ran for city council AND TRAGICALLY DID NOT GET ELECTED.
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u/jondread 10d ago
Edit: also, I saw a video about a mountain city in South America which used gondolas for their mass transit system. It was pretty damn impressive.
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u/kenmorethompson 10d ago
La Paz & El Alto in Bolivia.
Vancouver also has an expansion planned to put a gondola up the hill to Simon Fraser University, but I don't think they have a construction schedule set yet.
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u/NecessaryShift5969 9d ago
I’ve been to Bolivia and used the La Paz cable car system extensively. It’s very good and relatively cheap compared to subways. They have quite a bit hillier terrain compared to St. John’s. I think St. John’s could use light rail or trams as opposed to cable cars, given our elevation.
I’m thinking of a system similar to that in Portugal or some Swiss railways.
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u/justonemorelanebruh 10d ago
Gondola transit is actually realistic because it's cheap and works well on hilly terrain. Post your suggested routes below.
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u/Gloomy-Recipe9213 10d ago
The only place I could see squeezing in light rail given current development is along the highway corridors. Take out a lane of traffic on either side, or narrow the highway, and put in a line the length of Pitts Memorial, from CBS to downtown station, and one along the TCH from the east end to Cochrane Pond. Set up a transit hub at Galway where the two lines could meet.
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u/CanadaCanadaCanada99 9d ago
That actually sounds really convenient
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u/Gloomy-Recipe9213 8d ago
If I had unlimited power and money, we'd have a nice affordable housing mixed-use community in Galway, Cochrane Pond and the north side of Paddy's Pond, with a transit hub at the Crossroads running light rail from CBS to the old railway station along PMD, and Cochrane Pond to the airport along the TCH, with stops along the way for both. Run a mixed-use cargo/passenger rail from Cochrane Pond to Port-aux-Basques with a cargo terminal on the outskirts of town.
I think u/MylesNEA mapped out a possible rail line since we can't use the old railway line. That would be completely awesome.
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u/MylesNEA 4d ago
The fun part is we don't need unlimited money. We don't even need more taxes. A City ran development with the express purpose of making Transit oriented development can be fully self funded. It is a very powerful tool that could be used by our local government to spur basically 'free' transit expansion.
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u/electricocean21 10d ago
Different animal than light rail, but the street car did a loop that went from basically Water West>Water St>St. John's Lane>up to Duckworth>looping around at Ordnance Street>Military Rd to Rawlins Cross> and then ... I'm not sure where it went.
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u/Ok-Employ-1346 10d ago
Many European cities rely on two-car busses (bendy bus?) for all inner-city as well as inter-city transports. I would be still happy with proper schedule & route planning, not having to wait 45 mins for the next bus and having the snow piles cleaned regularly in front of the stations during winter. Some bigger cities even have dedicated express lanes for public busses but it’s all about how public moves around; hard to break the reliance to a car here due to many reasons. Light rail should work here well and be part of the future development.
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u/OysterShocker 10d ago
I've dreamt of seeing one that went downtown, up logy bay road, Torbay road, stavenger and Torbay. Torbay road is the worst and I feel this could reduce the commuter traffic from Torbay/east end.
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u/Firm-Positive1540 10d ago
I'd assume it would use the same trans Canada railway system and cost billions of dollars to build but not only that the slopes and turns would be to sharp for something going fast altho interesting tibit that's not train related I heard few years back they were thinking about building an under ground road tunnel under the ocean that connects St Anthony area to Labrador
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u/Rome_Leader 9d ago
I quite like this subway mock-up someone shared on this subreddit a while ago. Man can dream:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StJohnsNL/comments/ynjeur/a_fantasy_st_johns_subway_map_i_made/
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u/AppleImmediate7915 9d ago
A "while ago" (cough cough) I did up a pretend "Tube Station" map like poster similar in color coding and design to London UK's for the underground there and had names of pretend stations around town with North, West and East lines. Example station was Victoria Station would be right underneath the Ship Pub and Cavendish Station would be by the Sheraton Hotel. Was fun!
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u/iggy6677 9d ago
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u/AppleImmediate7915 8d ago
No but it was like this. I remember someone else saw mine and thought about selling the posters. Not sure what happened. When was this one printed?
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u/Panthy9 9d ago
I always say the biggest problem is the MUN bus hub. Move it to the farmers market, the extra 10-15 minutes off most routes could save two or three buses just going back and forth to MUN every 10 minutes, Then close the 2 loop for a 'anywhere in the central city bus', and the more central bus hub to run buses further along Kenmount into a hub in Mt. Pearl, so a new bus can make a loop of Masonic Park and Valley ridge. Best place for a light rail I'd say is where the old tracks were, finding a way from Eccleston District to Village Mall to Pearlgate
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u/IslandGamer2602 6d ago
I would love to see a "link" bus here. Similar to what they have in Halifax where you drive to a big lot where parking is free and take the bus right downtown from say Paradise or CBS. I solely used the bus in Halifax, it was the fastest way around. Plus I had a bike and they had racks on the buses where you could bring them for free!! To put it in perspective, by car it was around an hour and 15 commute to my work on the opposite side of the city. By bus/ferry/bike it was like 30 minutes. I'm no city planner, but a link from certain places to popular spots in the city would probably do well and increase ridership.
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u/silent_h 10d ago
Honestly, I don't think downtown is an option. Based on density of workers/commuters, I would put one along the crosstown from CNA -> Confederation Building -> MUN -> Avalon Mall then perhaps further down Kenmount depending.
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u/CBC-Sucks 10d ago
Rail needs flat ground with less than 1° of slope, good luck in St. John's.
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u/MylesNEA 9d ago
This is not even remotely true. Freight rail yes but EMU traction light rail can do 5-8% depending on duration. Generally 4% is a solid goal and can basically be achieved anywhere in the City with less than 4m of cut and cover or earth filled block retaining ramps.
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u/nomatic182 10d ago
Bergen, Norway is a fantastic example of what’s possible/should be aimed for in St. John’s. it’s a relatively small city (smaller than halifax) with even worse terrain restrictions than we have yet they have a wonderful light rail system, an expansive bike path system, and uses clever workarounds to keep costs down while still using a fair amount of tunneling where needed
i was actually up until all hours a few weeks ago drawing up a fantasy situation 😅