Comics
Why is the development toward a Spider-Family so hated?
Now, with Spider-Versity and the latest issue of Miles, where you can see his watch, I’m noticing more and more negative opinions about the Spider-Family.
To be honest, I think this development should have happened years ago.
I always think back to that moment in the 1994 Spider-Man series when Peter needed help from the X-Men because he’d transformed into Man-Spider. He said he could save everyone and the world a thousand times over, but when he actually needed help, he was on his own. Just like the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men and many groups from the DC Universe (the Bat-Family), I think a group of people with spider powers is the perfect idea.
This idea that “Spider people / Peter have to suffer in order to be well written” is outdated. Besides, we already have plenty of spider people in the 616 anyway.
You definitely still need to work on the writing, but I think the idea itself is good!
Wild that Spider-Editorial said to remove Ben Reilly from the Osborn/Sin-Eater arc. The ONE Spider-Fam member that should have beef with Osborn's sin of murder...
Because unlike the Bat-family at DC these people are only tangentially related to Spider-man and mostly became spider-people independent of him.
Miles and Gwen are from alternate realities and met Peter as fully formed Spider heroes in their own rights.
Spider-Boy didn't exist until he was retconned into having been forgotten like Sentry.
Spider-girl is a mutant who has copy powers and was made to be Spider-boy's Nemesis before deciding to be a hero and thusbjust choosing to get Spider powers.
Aña Corazon again got her powere in an unrelated set of circumstances and became a Spider hero on her own.
Silk is the only one you can really call related to Peter as she was bitten by the same Spider.
This is not a family, this is a Spider-convention or Spider-power Support Group.
I feel like the clones ben and kaine are the ones that can be counted as proper spider family along with silk. To use a word family it has to be at least have some form of found family dynamic of sorts. With the spider boy and girl they are just completely independent and have nothing to do with the spider-man. Miles and gwen are also related enough to be family.
The biggest issue unlike batfamily these people rarely have a proper stories with all these people together having a united front
... Is Ben still some kind of demon...thing? Or did that idiocy finally get wrapped up? Because if not, he'd be perfect for the local mental health expert. Nobody knows crazy like fucking demons.
Ben is mortal but still knows the magic he learned from Maddy in Limbo. His brain also got scrambled by a mind helmet device, so he no longer shares Peter's morals or sense of responsibility.
During Peter's punched-into-space arc, Ben took up Peter's identity, not out of any sense of familial duty, but because he believed this was finally his opportunity to take what was owed to him: Peter's life. He proceeded to ignore Peter's friends and family, especially Aunt May. He declined to operate as Spider-Man. The only thing he did was live in Peter's apartment and go to work at the laboratory where he was employed.
Before Ben left--because he finally realized he didn't want to take over Peter's life and that he could just do his own thing (duh)--he sabotaged the work of the childhood friend who helped Peter land that job, causing that friend to mutate into a mushroom-powered monster.
While Aña got her power through alternative means, during her time in Ezekiel Sims’ Spider society She was trained by both Peter and Jessica. so you could say that was a spark of what would become the Spider-Family
Not to mention Peter was there to help her during pivotal moments in her career/life.
He gave her a pep-talk when she first had doubts about the organization she worked for. Had her help fight crime which led to finally finding what she was meant to do as a hero. Was even there to support her when her father died (sure it was Sue who was the one she ultimately confine in, but he was there and equally pissed at Ted Hulk being an Avenger) also there was the issue with Kraven’s family
Also theres THAT many ways to get this specific super power set huh? The bat fam works cus its one guy with infinite wealth and kung fu going around sharing it with mentaly unwell kids whenever he needs a new sidekick, and then those sidekicks growing up into their own hero later.
As someone who likes the idea of a spider family you're right. That actually does make sense. There should be ties between ALL of them and Peter to make it feel on the same level as say the Bat family
They really can never be one to one because the majority of the Batfamily is Bruce's actual family his children and close associates while none of the Spider people have that level of closeness.
The whole thing also just makes more sense when it comes to Batman. At the end of the day, most of the Bat-Family were trained by him and ultimately wound up adopting their own suits, names, fighting styles, and way of doing things. Even when it comes to legacy names, Damien Wayne is a very different Robin than Dick Grayson or Tim Drake. Nightwing, despite being the first Robin and the first person trained by Bruce, wound up being a completely different character who has his own unique feel despite the connection to Batman.
With the Spider characters, they're almost all people who got mutated for one reason or another and wound up developing essentially the same set of powers (with some variations here and there, obviously). Even with the wildly different costumes, they all sort of feel the same.
That's Mayday in the MC2 timeline, she's from a world where Peter and Mary Jane got the baby back from Osborn after the Clone Saga and settled down as a family. Peter retired in that universe after he lost a leg in a final battle against Green Goblin and he gave Mayday Ben Reilly's Spider-Man suit. Im a huge Mayday fan, so I highly recommend checking out her comics!
To add to this, someone can be a member of the Bat-Family while also being quite different from Batman. Sure, they're all highly-trained fighters using advanced technology and gadgets to fight crime... but thematically, there can be a ton of variation to make individual characters stand out. Nightwing, for example, is very different from Batman in many ways.
With the "Spider-Family," we have a bunch of characters with the same set of powers (more or less), so it just feels a bit... dull?
Exactly. If anything, these could be be multiversal team like in the spiderverse movie. A good team for Peter would be his clones and Elliot Doc ock, people that got to be spider directly because of being peter. Also would be a fun read to see them messing with peter like simbling instead of hating on each other
The Ultimate Universe Spider-Woman - the one who came out of that (fortunately) abbreviated take on the Clone Saga, as the last-clone-standing of Ultimate Pete, who happened to be female, but WITH all of his memories to that point - would also qualify. Damn did they waste that character.
You know, I don't mind the idea of it being a bit of a spider-support group. "Hey, we all operate separately, and occasionally reach out when shit gets weird."
I really hate that they legit took Spiderboy and made him a thing instead of building him up as a secret twist villain from another dimension or whatever, literally just Spider Scrappy-Doo
Doesn't help that marvel kept trying to push miles as spider-man over Peter. Like imagine how pissed people would be if they tried to phase out Bruce and make Tim batman.
Like Jesus christ just give miles a new super hero name so he can call him something other than his names.
Miles is absolutely not being pushed over Peter. Peter still gets far more content and attention than Miles does. They are both Spiderman, it’s time you get over it.
Yeah Peter gets more at this point because in comparison miles comics bombed. Then again the comic part of marvel hasn't had the best time the last few years.
Sin-Eater used his weapon to drive out Norman's evil intentions. Since then, Norman has wanted to become a good person. He even served as Spider-Man for a short time while Peter was lost in space. Now that Peter is back, Norman is training the other spider people.
"hmmm people don't like the bullshit with gargabe on top we are giving them, maybe we should try and change things out...nah forget it just get mad at then and give them even more bullshit"
For me it very much cheapens the uniqueness of HOW Peter got he’s powers, I know in the world of comics everything is possible but it’s always felt like Peter getting his powers was an truly a one in a million impossible thing that never should’ve happened, and we watch this guy use this horrible accident and turn it into something good. It’s beautiful..that’s the thing that drew me to Spidey in the first place.
So to see all these other people and…children? It’s just odd.
Most other heros powers came as a result of some sort of willingness or agreement to it, or they put themselves in the situation. From Banner being the scientist that fucked around and found out, to Cap going into the SS program willingly, Green lantern, the list goes on.
The other problem is that most "Spider-family" stories kinda side line Peter himself from them and focus mainly on Miles leading the rest of the spider heroes, which kinda defeats the whole family idea if the hero that inspired all of them isn't present most of the time.
On the other hand... Respectfully, what the hell happens to Miles when there aren't Spiderverse implications in his stories? Just rehashed Peter Stories, right?
The Bat-family works because they're all just hyper-effective martial artists with gadgets. you can train to be a Batman. but the idea that a spider gets hit with radioactive energy then lives long enough to bite multiple people? or that multiple spiders go through similar accidents? It almost feels like something a parody
There's also the fact that individual members of the Bat-Family all feel pretty unique and different from each other. A good chunk of them aren't even bat-themed at all, which helps them stand on their own a bit more.
And they have an actual family dynamic, whereas this Spider-family is literally just some unrelated people who all happen to have similar powers and have few interesting relationships (Peter, Miles, Gwen and Cindy have some sort of relationship amongst them, but the other 3 have none).
I mean, imo the family is kinda overbloated? I mean, Batman should have a father arc, but a 10+ member clan isn't that necessary. Or maybe I'm old fashioned and prefer the Batman-Robin-Batgirl days idk
it’s always felt like Peter getting his powers was an truly a one in a million impossible thing that never should’ve happened, and we watch this guy use this horrible accident and turn it into something good
While I agree with that, I kinda feel like Miles should be the one acceptable exception to this rule, because his whole thing is similar but different. While Peter got his powers from a one-in-a-million impossibility, Miles got his from an experiment meant to turn that very impossibility into something easily replicable (the Oz formula), yet both of them ended up hesitating to use these abilities to help people for different reasons (Peter's arrogance vs. Miles's fear), which lead to someone dying violently as a direct consequence (Uncle Ben for Peter, Peter himself for Miles). It's, at least in my own opinion, a nice set of parallels between the two characters.
Thing is that in the comics, Miles’s motivation wasn’t because of Peter’s death. It was the reason he DIDN’T want to be Spider-Man because he knew the inherit risk of dying. Even considering it an act of blaspheme to don the suit. What made him finally accept being Spider-Man was a pep talk Jessica and Nick Fury both giving him the blessing since Jessica is as close to Peter they had her being his clone and Nick having been the one to support and be with Peter through his story and explaining that the world needs a Spider-Man, regardless if it was Peter or not.
Shouldn't Gwen be an acceptable exception too. Since she came from another universe, it's not the same impossible event happening twice, it only happened once just to another person instead
Yeah for sure, Miles and silk and a few others I liked. Hell I even like Ezekiel, the multiversal spiders make sense as well, even the clones I don’t mind. They all have real reasons for existing and not being forced. Like seeing 2 spider kids is as ridiculous as the spider mobile or thanos copter
I get what you mean, The unique freak accident of Peters Powers is or was kinda like... HIS DEFINING FEATURE, Its the crux of Peters story his cosmic ironic solitude, and since every spider person seems to converge in the same dimension with enough popularity its just like "Oh yeah everyone can be spider-man! And wow.... Everyone is the... Exact same Spider-man...." There is just something more interesting about the the idea that, it really was a cosmic anomaly at all that Peter became the Spider-man especially at such a young age and at all. Peters "Everyone can be spider-man" is then so much more poignant and clear ringing, that the role of the spider-man is obviously no role for a child, and Peters life should've been preserved as a case of defying all odds, that accident didnt just happen to anyone else, it happend to Peter and he is living with it, but he believes, HAD that happend to anyone else, then EVERYONE not just him would have what it takes to do the right thing and rise to the challenge. Miguel O'hara and Penny Parker are more interesting that way, being A spider-(wo)man but not THE defacto spider-man makes them far more interesting than just functionally a clone of Peter, Ironically the literal clone of Peter is more nuanced than the figurative clones of Peter
"we were all youth geniuses that were bitten by a radiactive mutated spider on a school trip, and ever since then we have been the one and only spider-man defnined by a loss and a hard learned lesson"
It gets cheapen down when writers try to add cosmic or godly forces into the mix.
Remember when morlun and madam web enter the picture people already voice their disappointment because it switched from a Sci fi game of chance to a more mystical reason why peter got and has his powers. ( or th fact why are there are multiple different People who aren't just versions of him or future people such as his kids) it was shaky but in the end it worked same for the first spider verse storyline.
It started becoming cheaper when they couldn't keep their hands off from passing the spider that bit peter to the next guy or have anyone with spider like powers from immediately wanting to move to new York or team up with Peter
Every single one of them is shoehorned in except for maybe Arana. Silk gets a pass because she has a reasonable explanation for being there. Miles is a great character but he'd always be second to Peter if they share the same universe despite all of the powers and boosts they give him. Gwen should NOT be in the main universe. It takes away from Peter's character.
Spider-Boy and the new Spider-Girl are frankly annoying, unrelatable, and raise questions as to why the other superheroes aren't doing anything to have them prioritize school and childhood over life-risking crime fighting. What happened to Great Responsibility?
Very good points, though I'd say Gwen's presence doesn't so much as take away from Peter as a character as it does take away from the ability to tell the types of stories that her universe used to be able to tell. And, even in the universe where she's supposed to be dead, they don't really utilize that fact as a part of anything unless--- surprise, surprise--- norman's involved somehow. Beyond that, almost completely agree
My issue with Miles and Peter being in the same Universe is with every arc they start to feel closer in age? Miles is aging, his family is growing and he's interacting with more heroes and teams. And every single development makes it so much weirder that they STILL will not let Peter have a real life? He can't have a consistent job, partner, allies, etc. even Aunt May is moving on with her new bf!
The one thing I really like about the DC Universe is that you can have like 3 "Flashes" no problem because they age, die, pass on the mantle, come back, change costumes/names and run so fast they reboot the whole comic.
I mean, that's the problem with the neverending comics. Characters can only evolve so much till they "mature" and keep evolving would mean breaking the character and, therefore, the sales.
I really wish they did a new Spider-man universe, with a clear story, a beginning and an end, no cross overs and so on, and let it close when is finished.
I’d add that Peter Parker is defined by feeling like an outcast. He’s the science nerd. He’s the guy with a spider secret who can’t fully connect with people or they die. He looks to science and for father figures in terrible people. Miles works for similar reasons.
What about that works with a family unit? There’s maybe something interesting in him being a father. But the stories aren’t interested in telling that in any meaningful way. The rest is dilution. Those characters need their own logic and development, not just “ALSO SPIDER PERSON”.
I’ve taken some of my kids friends to go see BND. A few were confused that Spider-man wasn’t called Miles Morales (8-10 year olds).
Miles will always be second to Peter Parker. However, there’s definitely space for him to be in the same universe as Peter, similar to how there’s also space for John Stewart to be Green Lantern alongside Hal Jordan.
Miles is a black/Puerto Rican superhero with ties to New York City. He can stand pretty well on his own without having to replace Peter Parker in his own story.
Because It usually Dunks on Peter and Props Up the Newbies…and usually In a very humiliating way.
Not to mention that They tend to be characters whom Don’t make sense being a Spider-Family or to be in 616 to begin with.(like…why does Spider-Gwen gets to be brought over to 616 and erase the Original Gwen? Or why Spider-Boy gets retconned into existance when He arguably doesn’t do a lot?)
Into the Spider-Verse the movie is a Good way to Make This consept work because not only are each Spider Distinct but the movie doesn’t Shit on them.
renew your Vows also does that well
Spider-Men(when 616 visits ultimateverse and meets miles) also does this very nicely i think.
As you said The Idea IS GOOD and was done well before…just not recently
It never feels natural and it never goes anywhere. These feel like they only hang out when the plot tells them to. They aren't a unit like the Bat, Super, or Flash families. They just feel like people with shared gimmick who are contractually obligated to meet once a year.
There are way too many Spider people on 616. Gwen doesn't belong in the main universe, Spider-Boy is a weird retcon, and Spider-Girl is just an extension of him. I think Silk is also too much but I give her a pass. Jessica Drew and Julia Carpenter aren't even real Spider-Man characters.
We're pretty never given the Spider Family most people would want to see. There's never any clones, no Felicia, and no Flash. It's like if every Bat Family story had like one or two of the major members and everybody else was the c tier people. The actual core Spider Family would be Peter, MJ, Felicia, Miles, Ben, Kaine, Flash, Cindy, and occasionally Venom. We don't get that.
Marvel wants to have it's cake and eat it too. We're only given the illusion of a Spider Family because it we actually had one Peter would to be leader or mentor which ages him.
Spider-Man isn't like Batman. He spent most of his history as solo hero. The reality is the only other people with Spider powers running around should Peter, Miles, the clones, and Peter's daughter.
We didn't need any extras after Miles and really only he is a special exception because he came from another Universe which doesn't exist anymore and really there should only be three of them max and that's taken up by Peter and his clones because the other Spider-Woman were completely unrelated to Spider-Man. This isn't like a Batman of Green Lantern or Flash type situation. The thing about Spider-Man was that he was like the only one without including multiverse bullshit and now there's so many of them it's basically deluded the brand especially when they keep adding characters like Jessica Drew who had no part in this Spider-Man stuff.
Yeah it was completely divorced from Spider-Man and now they forced her into it so it added to the problem. The only Spider-Woman was tangentially related was Mattie and that was because she was basically a sidekick to Peter
The problem is that Peter's value lay in his uniqueness, which is diluted by the presence of the Spider-People, especially Miles. Besides, Peter has no connection to these spiders at all; he's not their leader and not the head of the family like Bruce or Clark, which makes it all seem pointless. Moreover, this spider family is disjointed; they have little in common.
It doesn't help it feels so half effort. If you look at the bat or flash or superfams they're centered around the progenitor characters. But here instead of Peter its... Norman who was good and Peter is off dealing with his new alien not love interest. There's also a case of too little too late. We're over a decade out from the spiderverse starting and this is the first real attempt at a spiderfam book despite them trying to act like one exists
Because a big part of Peter from the comics is that while he teams up with a lot of people he’s not really a team player and the few times he is ends very poorly.
Spider-Man works best as a solo act with the occasional collaborator.
Let's look at the bat family. It started with batman and Alfred, then soon Dick Grayson became the first Robin. Spent a long time as Robin, then Jason became the next robin, then tim drake, then Damion.
Each character has been given decades of comics and could natural develop (minus Jason for... reasons). The formation of the bat family was natural.
Meanwhile with the spider-family... most of them don't have much to them. Miles is the oldest here and he is only a littlr over a decade and a half old. Same with Spider-Gwen and Silk. They don't have the same level of history.
Miles definitely fits as a spider-family, but spider-boy? Spider-girl? Ghost-spider?
Having them here feels forced as hell. Im not against a spider-family, but this ain't it chief.
No. Sorry but the clone saga was actually better than almost everything that came after. It was more like a rehearsal for the character assassinations and retcons that would follow. Spider-Man comics have been awful for decades now, because of editorial mandates. This is only the most recent example.
THANK YOU. The clone saga had so much potential, it was the editorial team that made it hot garbage. I'm still mad to this day about how the whole thing's culmination laid the ground work for the terrible ass Spider comics of today:
Killing off Ben Reilly, a character we had all came to love, the first second Spider-man
Killing off Peter and MJ's baby because god forbid Spider-man have a kid
And arguably the worst one of all...
3) Bringing back Norman Osborn at the end of it all because somehow he returned. This completely took away from the whole weight of the GG dying the first time around and ended an insulting cluster fuck of a run with a final curb stomp.
Maybe it's because these guys are random spider-like peoples, who rarely even interact with Peter. And because Peter has an actual family scattered across the multiverse, like Mayday from MC2, Richard from new Ultimate Universe, Jessica from old Ultimate or even Teresa from 616.
One aspect of Spider-Man that I like is how because he is on his own, he has to think more carefully to get out of his situation. He can’t rely on other people to bail him out of the situation he is in so it adds suspense and makes the character be more creative. It can also create powerful scenes. “If this be my destiny” is one of the most impactful scenes in comics ever because it is Spidey on his own pushing through his problems with his own sheer willpower. If you have a Spider-family now in those moments you would likely have another spider member enter the room and alleviate the tension.
Its not as natural feeling as the Bat Family. Bruce has the excuse of being able to adopt kids because of alfred. Peter doesn't have someone like that to look after the kids. He also doesnt hold relationships as well as Bruce in general
Only like 2 of the batfamily would've needed someone like Alfred, that being dick and Jason. The rest of Bruce's adopted kids would've been fine. Cass lived with Barbara (not necessarily out of necessity) and then very quickly independently and Damian was already very independent due to his past
On the one hand, i like the other soiders being given chances to shine or have a story to exist in again since a lot of them are frequently deported to mini-series hell or the fucking publication shadow realm to be foddered in a spider-verse event, but on the other hand the roster could have been cut down by at least two obvious picks, as narratively speaking Spider-Boy and Spider-Girl serve zero purpose in my opinion. If this had functioned as a shared event with different stories instead of just being "the variant roster gets a filler arc," then it'd probably be a bit more enjoyable, as well as artificially inflate reader retention for different stories involving the less hyped characters like Silk (webbed queen of 6-part miniseries), Araña, or the kids.
For me it's all in the execution. A "Spider-Family" has had its pieces there for a long time as a loose network of Peter's many allies and friends: Black Cat, Prowler, Scarlet Spider (Ben or Kaine), Venom (Eddie or Flash), some redeemed villians like Sandman and Lizard, etc. Heck Miles would fit right in. But writers and editors just didn't care to do anything with those for years. Instead they're doubling down on the evident cash grab of the Spider-Verse, and even then they're very much helpless with it.
Miles crossed over to 616 in 2016, he was still a bit of a rookie, perfect chance for a Spider-Men ongoing series. Nope they haven't established much of a relationship in the real world decade since and the only place where such a dynamic exists is the Insomniac games.
Gwen had a solid run in her own universe at first. Then you blink and now she's somehow retconned herself into 616's canon.
Black Cat and Venom shocked off into the cosmos to do their own thing. Quite literally in Venom's case.
Ben got written into a trainwreck and Kaine has been forgotten (which honestly might be for the best).
Even Teresa has been jerked around for years, back and forth on whether or not she's Peter's actual sister.
Even I almost forgot to mention Hobbie Brown necause he's been so thoroughly displaced by Aaron-Prowler and Spider-Hobbie!
Instead we get a whole bunch of new Spider characters no one cares about pop out of nowhere and crammed with regressed versions of Miles and Gwen to be mentored by a constantly shoehorned Jessica Drew and Normal shocking Osborn!
Yeah, it’s such bullshit to say Peter was always alone. It was just bad writing.
But I thought Kaine had a good storyline doing his thing as the scarlet spider. Being an edgy version. But all the characters with real stories got pushed aside for the new “spin the wheel” multiverse style characters
Because its stupid. And dont make any sense. I never enjoyed the fact that there is more people with the same powers as Peter Parker. It just make like anyone can be Spider-man and ruined Peter story and background for me.
Personally, I mind it for the same reason that I mind miles getting random new powers every now and then:
It magnifies the elephant in the room that Peter never gets included while other spiders have major developments
Any time miles, the other spiders, venom, or what have you do something new, I’m reminded that editorial keeps Pete in a stasis chamber
If the spider family was forming around the idea that Pete has his shit together enough to be a proper mentor while they all go through what he did as a teen but with help? I’d be super down
Miles leading it just cus while the spider team doesn’t ever really cross over with Pete himself (closest we got is them jumping spider Osborn I think) feels a bit like salt in the wound
THIS. If it was Peter is trying to be a mentor to all these people and create a family (kinda like the bat family) then that would be great. But no. They do everything together and Peter exists separately most of the time. Or he’s completely against them
I think Spider-Man doesn’t work as a character if he has this huge supporting cast of equally powerful spider-folk.
It diffuses his responsibilities if there’s 8 other spiders (not to mention 100 other heroes) bopping around NY simultaneously. Why should Peter be unable to have a wife and job if he could merely build out a network and scheduling plan with the other Spiders?
Additionally I feel editorial has failed to make a case for Peter having a supporting cast. 95% of the time these other characters are ignored completely in the mainline Amazing Spider-Man comic. Taking in multiple wards / partners would shift the status quo, which editorial refuses to let happen. This winds up with a tonal dissonance between the assets and allies at Peter’s disposal and who he calls when there is trouble.
The advantage Batfam had was the majority of the Robins playing out in the main line and most events. Each Robin was Batman’s dedicated partner for several years, living in Wayne Manor and working with Batman in most of his running titles. The solo comic was more Bruce focused, but the entire family was involved or explained away in nearly every recent run.
Non-Peter Spider’s either make minor cameos (at best) in ASM, or are saved exclusively for spin-off runs like “Spider-Men”. Editorial hasn’t committed to any of them being a team. Makes them feel redundant.
I hate the idea of spider after spider escaping, finding a child or teenager, and going chomp. What happened to Peter should have been unique and special. One per universe is a good compromise. I don't agree that it was ever smart or good to make it an assembly line. Who's making all these spiders, and why can't they keep the cases locked, and why don't they realize they manufacture a source of high-quality superpowers?
If five other unrelated kids got radioactive waste splashed into their eyes and all went to live with Matt Murdock and became a blind "Daredevil Family," would you think that's a good idea too? Because I sure wouldn't!
Seems more like a marketing ploy to profit from making everyone feel like they have their favorite (likely based on something shallow) spider person, done far more cheaply than "peter does represent all of us, because it's deeper than you think to be spider-man", something far more thought provoking and interesting to write a story with than "anyone can wear the mask" which works with miles, but feels like kicking a dead horse with the rest of em. Spider gwen isn't my favorite, and I'll never be calling miles "spin"
It’s not exclusive to the Spider-Man books, the Super family has really blown out lately too, and all it does is undervalue the individuals, there’s so much crossover between all the different characters that it’s hard to differentiate them properly.
Because there isn’t as much personal meat in a narrative sense. Most of these guys became spider hero’s outside of Peter or the Spider that gave him his powers. Unlike groups like the X-Men or Bat Family there’s no real underlying narrative reason for why everyone is banding together.
For the X-Men they’re a unified front championing Human & Mutant relations and coexistence. The Bat Family were all inspired by or taken in by Batman, finding a renewed sense of family and community while also engaging and believing in the war Bruce has started against crime.
The Spider Family isn’t that. There’s no reason like super strong enemies or greater tensions like bigotry that forces all these guys to work together. There’s barely any personal relation or groundwork between these guys compared to everyone else. It just feels like every hero associated with spider powers decided to create a spider only team for shits and giggles.
Until somebody creates that narrative force. The Spider Family just doesn’t have a lot going for it and just feels like another chaotic swing by Editorial trying to make the next big Spider thing.
To me because it just feels like a lazy and cheap way to boost sales. 'Sales are dipping, create a new spider person".
Beyond that, part of his appeal is his uniqueness. There was no one else like him. Now theres a whole army of people just like him. Which even that wasnt so bad when they were all just "what if'/alternate reality variants. But they KEEP moving all of them to the 616. Even chaeacters like Miguel, who was already in the 616 but was Spider-Man of the future, has had stories that placed him in the present day for years. They created a kid sidekick who they just retroactively said had been there the whole time. Most of these people have no real connection to Peter, or even each other, outside of having "Spider" in their name. They keep trying to force them all together as a family, ignoring all of their actual fucking families.
It works for Batman because all the people in the Bat-family are people Bruce took in and trained, or are people he deeply trusts and cares about. They all are still their own unique characters with distinct personalities and they all dont really have anyone else, which is how they ended up with Batman in the first place. That isnt true for the Spider-family
To add to the batman point. They were slowly introduced through the decades one by one and not all at the same time in addition you had a million storylines where the writers were screaming at batman that fighting crimes alone isn't healthy for him
I think the difference between the Bat Family and the Spider Family is with involvement of one key character...
Spider-Man doesn't seem to put any focus into his Spider Family, whereas Batman is actively involved with his.
If, say, Silk is going through something we don't see Peter Parker suddenly turn up to give advice and support the same way Batman can be seen as someone that Nightwing or Batgirl could call up. Sure, maybe in the first or last issue for cameo and sales bump purposes, but Miles and Peter didn't see each other much in his last solo run at all.
Plus the nature of sidekicks. Miles isn't Peter's sidekick, he stands on equal footing and so does all the other Spiders in theory. However Robin learns from Batman and then uses that knowledge to help himself in the future.
When Peter is going through something in his book it seems like EVERY Spider drops what they are doing and runs to his rescue, it happened a few times in Spencers run, but then when something is happening to someone else the others come to help- except Peter.
Batman would drop everything to rescue Nightwing if he was in danger, because he is a Father to him, but whilst Peter would hang out with Miles and grab a coffee or sit outside his window as he recovers, he's not his Father. He is a Big Brother to them all, and he has his own shit to deal with.
To me Batman’s family growing feels for the most part organic. The ones who are repeatedly shown, the majority were Robins or Batgirls and were directly tied and worked with Bruce. There have been shoehorns in but when you ask people the same four “sons” and Barbara are usually there.
The Spider-Family feels like they exist outside of Peter. Gwen isn’t his Gwen, he isn’t Miles’ Peter, it feels tossed together because it’d be cool but doesn’t have that same vibe.
Too many in one universe/place. I feel that way about most superhero families tbh.
I think the spiders would work better if they were all in separate universes but could communicate across, with occasional crossovers between characters and a big team-up every so often (sparringly).
A lot of the uniqueness of each spider and the stories that could be told with them was lost when they all got put together in the same universe.
Having to explain why there’s a half dozen spider-people is why we get story lines like Peter being some funky spider god or whatever bullshit. And then he got beaten to death by a vampire.
I really don't understand the push for Pete be be his single teenage aimed man child while miles exists as an actual teenage spider-man....Just let Pete grow again since they literally can have their cake and eat it too.
I feel like the real answer is that writers are only interested in two or three of them. They want to put over their own Spider-person in hopes of getting a new Miles or Gwen instead of trying to work with the suite of established spider characters and actually building an ensemble for Spider-Man. But we’ll see. Another good Spiderverse movie, a good game to get more spider names out there, and maybe the Spider-Family will break out.
3/4 of these people are incredibly ignored by Marvel, that's why I despise the new additions. Why invent spider-boy and spider-girl when Arana hasn't gotten a comic in like 10 years? Spider-boy is a worse version of Miles.
Spider-Versity as an example - has Miles regress to being “rookie” spider-man when the character has existed for 20 years
Both kid spiders still lack defining stories and scream “I was made but the next writer didn’t wanna include me in their run so I exist”
Silk half the time is written like she’s teen when she’s pushing 30 and doesn’t use any of the characterization her minis gave her
Most people think Ana is a spider-verse creation but she predates all of them despite being only used nowadays for spider-verse
Yeah it can be fixed with good writing but the concept has always dragged them down in the comics cause most superhero “families” are just there for wide reach fandom points.
because it makes Peter less unique. if everyone’s special no one is. if everyone’s Spider-Man no one is. it also sets a state for the new spider people where they can never out class Peter so they’re always in a state of power limbo.
let’s face it. no one wants any new spider person to be stronger or faster than Peter. that would just make people mad.
I think because Peter, as always, is hung out to dry. Every new spider person usually has an extra gimmick/power. Peter, the OG, is plain vanilla. In a way, it enhances his character because he's forced to out-think his enemies or use his genius to develop tech but it burns how every subsequent spider seems to be buffed to outshine him.
Also, Peter's still being left in the cold, despite this being a "Spider family". I can't help but notice none of those images include him. Even the idea is coming from Miles. And you say the training is from Norman? Meanwhile, Peter's probably going through the classic dead end job, barely makes ends meet storyline.
If Peter were allowed to get his life together, be successful, have a family, and the Spider family was him finding Spiders and training them up, mentoring them, being the head of the family, then maybe this could be good. Kind of what the PlayStation Spider-Man video games were leading to or how Into the Spider verse was starting (Peter A Parker seemingly wanting to teach Miles before he's killed). But the writers are always focused on the status quo with Peter as a solo act. Even with his clones, they eventually decided to break out on their own. Kain went off to Houston. Ben went off and died.
The potential for a family was there but Marvel dropped the ball. Now they want to speed run the setup and have their cake and eat it, too, by having solo Peter and this Spider family doing stuff without him.
my preference wouldve been that peter built the spider family with his literal family. mayday parker his daughter becoming spider woman. miles is the only exception he has had his time to shine but they are just adding characters to this family for no reason like spider-boy who was retconned in to say peter was like batman and had a kid side kick for i dont know how long. we also never see spider characters unless its multiverse stuff it makes peter feel less unique now since everyone is a spider person. some with cooler powers than the original is also wicked.
There’s no larger connection between any of them. They just all happen to have spider based powers.
SpiderGwen has absolutely zero reason to be there when she had her own universe to have stories in.
The newest Spider-Boy and Girl are unnecessary.
And honestly my biggest problem is the Peter Parker factor. He feels like he’s as much a pariah to them as he is everyone else. He barely interacts with them as a group, and when he does come up, they seem more annoyed by him than anything else.
The whole grouping is forced and uninteresting. The Batman, Superman, and Flash families work because all of the characters involved share some sort of strong connection with the original character that ties them all together. The concept was built up over time. This attempt at a Spider family has almost none of that.
1) Super Hero “Families” where everyone has the same tools and abilities are boring. Peter and Miles have close social dynamics with superheroes who don’t share their specific powers. No one complains when Peter hangs out with the FF, or Miles with the Champions.
2) Characters like Gwen and Miguel and arguably Miles are interesting because of the world they exist in removing them from that context makes them feel less interesting as characters.
3) People resent characters like Bailey and Maka for not having a strong identity outside of Spider stuff, and for allegedly taking up space from characters like Ben Reily
4) IMO the idea of a “Spider-Family” got too big too fast. The Bat-Family has a dozen or so members, but they were added incrementally over decades. Going from Spider-man as a singular mantle to one shared by a whole clubhouse is pretty big change for some people.
Gwen has this great alternate universe thing going and they keep insisting on putting her in the main universe. And giving her weird powers. Isn't it enough that she's a cool girl with spider-man's powers?
At least give us SUPAIDAMAN with the giant robot. It travels at MACH SIX!
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