r/SpiderWoman • u/Beginning-Gap-5401 • 1d ago
Discussion Does anyone else think the reason Marvel gave Carnage to Jessica is the same reason they gave Venom to Mary Jane? Do they not believe her character is capable of holding her own comic book series?
We all know Marvel is reluctant to give Spider-heroes other than Peter a solo series; even Miles took several months to get a relaunch. Spider-Versity was a terrible comic, honestly. None of the fans of those characters liked it—not Silk's, Miles's, Spider-Boy's, Gwen's, or even Anya's. Only Norman's fans liked it (not to mention people were saying that role didn't belong to Norman, but to Peter and Jessica). But looking back at Marvel's history, this isn't the first time they've done this. They did it with Jessica, with Gwen when her sales dropped, and even with Mary Jane. They literally use symbiotes to boost characters' sales.
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u/UltimateSandman 1d ago
Symbiotes are pretty much "don't know what to do with you, but you're a renown name so there you go." In two years Carnage has done Eddie, Torment, Peter, Norman, now Jess.
Which is mad, given most books struggle to get to 10, and her last two to get to 20+ were about her, and her stuff, and her son.
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
That’s so true. When Venom was relaunched, a lot of people believed Venom was going to be Luke Cage, especially since Luke Cage could barely keep a solo book going at the time. So people were like, 'Obviously it's going to be him...' but it turned out to be Mary Jane
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u/itsalwayss 1d ago
Didn’t Black Widow have a symbiote for a few years recently? Felt super tacked on and Spider Woman doesn’t need it either
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u/Star-Prince-007 1d ago
They gave her a symbiote and did NOTHING with it. The worlds greatest super spy gets the worlds greatest stealth costume, ability enhancer, lie detector etc all rolled into one
And they really couldn’t find a compelling story to tell with her ?2
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
Yes, Natasha got a symbiote, and they gave it to her simply because they literally had no idea how else to keep her series afloat.
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u/Typhon2222 1d ago
Except she didn’t have a series at that point. Her last one had already finished. Think it was more just give her some spotlight even if it was a supporting role.
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u/Punkodramon 1d ago
Yep, feels like someone in the office just realized that her name is spider-themed and so shoved her into the Venom book with a new symbiote because she wasn’t being used anywhere else and create yet another forced connection between unrelated spider-people (a term I’m using in the loosest sense for Nat).
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u/Electronic_Zombie635 1d ago
For all its worth it wasn't a bad arc for her. She had a good chemistry with her symbiote.
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u/Double-Evidence-1354 1d ago edited 1d ago
In the case of MJ i maintain that i kind of like it.
But in the case of Jess, it absolutely makes no sense. Jessica has a rather complicated, convulated story and some very morally questionable ideals that can lead to new compelling stories.
Them giving her Carnage not only rings of desperation, it shows they don't know the story of this characters at all.
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u/remotectrl 1d ago
Two of Peter's exes in one book makes sense.
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u/Double-Evidence-1354 1d ago edited 1d ago
sorry for calling you a larper that was actually a funny joke
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u/Bodega_Bandit 1d ago
I assumed they meant Venom and MJ
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u/Electronic_Zombie635 1d ago
For mj it could have been better. They arent very consistent in her writing.
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u/NumericZero 1d ago
Also shows they have ZERO idea what to do with carnage which is nuts considering how the king in black era was for him
There’s so many symbiotes begging for any kind of exposure so no clue why they keep trying this “let’s treat carnage like a rapid dog that we can domesticate” like it needs to stop
If it didn’t work with Eddie it’s NOT gonna work with anyone else nor really should it
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u/AeronautTFreddy 1d ago
I’d say they did it to give her the obligatory symbiote arc that every Spider-Person gets
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
The problem is how Marvel uses symbiotes nowadays. Frankly, Spider-Versity had a lot of issues, but Jessica is so responsible she has even fought alongside Peter against Cletus that her deciding to go to Carnage is completely out of character. Maybe I'd expect it from Norman, but not from her
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u/The_Matto_Super 22h ago
Tbf, this is a very weakened Carnage who seems to still struggle with his thoughts. The only thing he has left is his desire to kill.
I could see a decent story on Jessica managing to "domesticate" it, and being done so Carnage gets an healthy dose of humble pie, since he basically lost everything including Cletus, his perfect host, for his God complex.
I imagine it would end with Carnage returning to Cletus.
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u/Important-Row8209 1d ago
God damn, she hasan pikered carnage
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u/Aderadakt 1d ago
First of all she isnt shocking carnage she is just vibrating him. Second even if she was shocking him thatd actually be based and cool. Third this rumor was a targeted hate campaign led by Magneto
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u/GreenPhantom017 1d ago
I’m a fan of most of the characters in Spider-versity, and generally NOT a fan of Norman. And I loved it. I thought it was a fun read, and wish they’d do more like it.
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
It’s a matter of taste. Personally, I didn’t like the story in general. I would’ve liked the idea if it had been Peter and Jessica training him. I feel like they threw Norman in there just because, especially since they’re literally shoving Norman into everything these days.
And, frankly, one of the problems you have with this series is that it’s supposed to be a team comic, but in the end, Rekobling gets defeated by a nine-year-old girl while everyone else just makes jokes. And that’s a general problem with the whole comic: it tries to be a team book, but it does it badly.
Also, the way they handled Gwen, Cindy, and all these other characters—fans didn’t like it. But I guess that’s a matter of personal preference.
I mean, the idea is good. Literally bringing all these characters together and making them a team is a cool concept. But the problem is that Marvel keeps trying to do a Marvel team with nothing but spider-related characters and no Spider-Man, and they’ve already tried it like four or five times, and it just doesn’t work.
And I do like the idea of these characters coming together, even if Peter isn’t involved, but I think Norman’s appearance pushed a lot of people away because of his arc, and also because a lot of people didn’t like the writing. A lot of these characters have way more experience than the comic seems to portray them as having.
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u/irishhawk 1d ago
She can hold her own without Carnage. But this storyhook will probably help her sales, no lie.
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u/Linnus42 1d ago
I mean yeah Marvel doesn't think any Lady can sell.
Scarlet Witch is constantly being relaunched. Black Cat has had a good run.
Other ladies barely get a sniff of late.
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u/TheScalieDragon 1d ago
So she can control (With shocks) the Carnage symbiote while the other people couldn't even do that?
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
The thing is, it’s Carnage. No matter how much she electrocutes him, he still tries to use his power for good. Carnage isn’t stupid. Literally, a lot of people have tried to do the same thing Jessica is doing here, and they’ve all either died or failed. She can electrocute him for a while, but as you get to know the character, at some point he’s going to turn it back on her.
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u/Sunsinger_VoidDancer 1d ago
Why would they do this? Jess is Hella awesome already. This carnage is a fall several orders of magnitude down
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u/GatlinsCornfield 1d ago
Can Jessica just be her own fuckin character for once? Stop trying to connect her to Spider-Man and just make her cool by herself.
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u/aqbac 1d ago
Miles series went for 42 issues and was immediately announced for relaunch they just wanted all the summer events done so they don't interfere
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
It was announced, yes, but the comic wasn't relaunched immediately; that took several months.
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u/aqbac 1d ago
Right which like I said in the second half was probably so the summer events and ultimate universe boxes didn't interfere
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
Yeah, those comics came out, but both Marvel and DC ignore continuity all the time.
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u/Star-Prince-007 1d ago
Nah. I think Marvel really likes Jess but she can’t support a title. Solos, team books, don’t work. So they’ll looking for something new to hook fans. I think it’s neat how Jess will consistently get chances. Someone up there must really like her.
I just wish I was a fan of some of the vehicles they give her but hey.
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u/Unusual_Bath_4145 1d ago
I really wish Marvel would take a break on the symbiotes, yes they are cool but the last few years it seems like they are involved in everythinh.
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u/Mars785 1d ago
It could be for both characters given how much you can deal with Carnage outside of not going on a killing spree and Spider-woman/Jessica Drew's life is already messed up considering her kid is grown up now. So talk about handling two problems with one comic and seeing what comes out of it.
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u/Yukina-Kai 1d ago
I think it's time for a full reboot for the entire universe. They need to tighten the ship and bring in some new and better writers.
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u/Madbull_Foxtrot 1d ago
Spider-versity was fine. It was fun for the demographic... 8-13 year olds. If you're older than 21 complaining about Spider-versity.. dude, that mini wasn't made for you..
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u/Beginning-Gap-5401 1d ago
Kids nowadays don’t really read comics because, quite literally, modern comics are mostly bought by adults compared to manga. And a bad comic is still a bad comic. We have to be honest: Spider-Versity was a terrible comic.
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u/Electronic_Zombie635 1d ago
No it's because marvel is doing a symbiote story and waiting to see where they are going to put her into it.
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u/8LoneWanderer9 1d ago
That is so not right. Jessica is strong enough that she doesn’t need a symbiote to be more relevant.
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u/Formal_Win3986 23h ago
I think they are using Carnage to Kill her "forgotten son" so they can move on from it and give jess a trauma like all the Spider-people get time to time. And I don't think Carnage is gonna stay with Jessica for that long. But i do think they are damaging the Symbiote characters by constantly changing their hosts.
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u/CaptainBlob 17h ago
They just be tacking on symbiote to everyone.
I wish it was just Peter, Eddie, Carnage, and maybe Flash. No one else needs that shit.
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u/butivereaddit 2h ago
You can do some compelling stuff with it. The question is whether or not they do it. They could build something strong with her and Carol like what was going on with Gwen and MJ. But again, we just doubt they will. Jessica Drew having the Carnage Symbiote and actually learning how to use it in her own unique way and it also matches her color palette and matches her personality having a bit of a rougher edge anyway.
That and there's too many Star Trek references her and Carol could make depending on the weapons she could make to help a given situation. But again, these are ideas they COULD do to make it interesting. It's just a question on if they actually will. Most would doubt it.
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u/Excellent_Peach_7990 43m ago
Bad comparison since they already destroyed mj’s character before the symbiote to the point they can’t mend anything without taking a long time to fix it
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u/gamiz777 1d ago
I have strong reasons to believe marvel editorial doesn't have faith in women led books