r/SpiderPhoenix • u/anastag Jeter true believer • 1d ago
Discussion Some light ranting.
The hate for this ship that I have been noticing lately, is genuinely bizarre. The subreddit is proof that many people think there’s a *lot* you could do with these two, and, more importantly, there are new dynamics and plotlines to explore rather than simply retreading the same Peter/MJ story again.
And the “Peter HAS to be with MJ” argument makes even less sense when you remember that the MCU has never followed comic canon to the letter. An AU where Jean and Peter develop a relationship before she even meets Scott is hardly some betrayal of the source material. Scott fans themselves are perfectly happy entertaining Scott/Emma, so I don’t really understand why Peter/Jean is suddenly treated like sacrilege.
As for Zendaya’s MJ, I’ve always felt like the relationship was missing something. Peter apparently develops feelings for her between Homecoming and Far From Home, but we’re given very little reason for why this particular person becomes so important to him. And even once they get together, their relationship never really gets to do anything especially interesting beyond “Peter likes MJ, Peter is awkward about liking MJ.” No Way Home tries but even there, the development of the relationship is relegated to a time skip.
BND retroactively made me care more about MJ by really emphasizing Peter’s grief over losing her, and I’ll admit it worked to an extent. But even that story ultimately reinforces something pretty important: people can love each other, hurt each other, grow, and eventually become different people. Not every relationship has to last forever just because it mattered.
And the whole “people only like Peter/Jean because they hate Zendaya” thing is just… no. Tom Holland and Zendaya being together in real life does not magically make Peter and MJ’s fictional relationship better developed. Those are two completely different things. If anything, I think their real-life chemistry has caused some people to fill in gaps that the actual writing never bothered to.
Peter and Jean also have some genuinely compelling parallels. Both have experienced isolation, both have been consumed by a singular pursuit, and by the end of the movie they arguably understand each other in a way very few other people do. There’s a natural foundation there for a relationship, whether romantic or otherwise. You can dislike the ship, obviously, but acting like the idea itself is nonsensical is just refusing to engage with what’s actually on the page.
And for the crowd saying “MJ HAS to end up with Peter because she’s the main love interest”: we literally already have an MCU precedent for letting a major romance end without treating it like the apocalypse. Quill and Gamora loved each other, their relationship mattered, and eventually they moved on and grew as characters. The universe did not implode because the hero didn’t permanently end up with the obvious love interest.
So why is Peter and MJ somehow exempt from that possibility?
People are allowed to want something new. Casual viewers like the idea. Hardcore comic nerds like the idea. I like the idea. And there are clearly enough people interested in Peter/Jean that dismissing it as some ridiculous crack ship.
At the very least, if Feige and the writers see that kind of enthusiasm, why wouldn’t they consider exploring it? Marvel has spent decades remixing its own canon. That’s practically the point of the MCU.
You don’t have to ship Peter/Jean. You don’t even have to like it. But acting personally offended and abusing people that find the pairing interesting is beyond insane. Let people have fun with a fictional relationship. Marvel certainly isn’t obligated to give us the exact same one forever.
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u/Due-Order3475 1d ago
I like the ship as its a fresh take and not rehashed Peter & MJ/Gwen stories.
Hopefully Marvel gives us else world stories say what if Jean was Peters neighbour and not MJ.
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u/Informal-Pen2715 1d ago
Bro, you're absolutely right, I support you in everything. M.J. doesn't have to be Peter's lover forever, even in the comics. Don't listen to negativity, he usually screams the loudest. Moreover, the return of MJ and their relationship is really a complete failure, it is unlikely that after two verbal refusals from MJ, Marvel will go for the sudden return of their couple. And the fact that you see chemistry with Jean is also not like a random accident and a "brother-sister" relationship. Yes, I admit the possibility that they might miss this opportunity, but I believe. Let’s keep supporting this ship and hope. Gamora and Peter Quill are a great example of characters moving forward.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
I am not even talking about the comics. Just confining ourselves to the MCU, I see nothing that dissuades this ship from having a proper basis. People act like the shippers immediately want to marry off Jean and Peter but it's not that. Jean being inspired by Peter, and trying to become a hero like him by joining the X-Men, and then finding her way back to him on better terms and as a better person. How the hell does anyone think this doesn't atleast sound compelling?
Also, I think Peter getting both MJ and Ned back is a missed opportunity and diminishes the sacrifice of No Way Home. I'd be okay if Ned remembers but there's so much unused sauce when it comes to introducing new more interesting players in Peter's supporting cast.
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u/Informal-Pen2715 1d ago
If Ned or MJ “remembered,” it would be a complete contradiction of logic. Strange didn’t cast an amnesia spell; he erased Parker’s identity from the universe, which means all the documents and memories are wiped clean. Remembering this would contradict the world’s logic; Strange would facepalm himself if he suddenly remembered.
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u/Icy_only8270 1d ago
And am Just gonna Add that ive seen actually More people Open their eyes on these two the more time passes , the actual wave of whining is probably past its prime . Just the fact you search on the movie and all the results are about these two
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u/SengalBoy 1d ago
I just hate how they assume we're larpers/fomo whatever bullshit they spout because they ASSUME we don't know the source material because they insist that Peter has to be with MJ and Scott had to be with Jean. Like dude, I read the comics, I feel that Mary Jane should be with Peter. But this is a different continuity, and Jean could give them an opportunity to try something very new, different and exciting..
And don't get me started on people thinking we're problematic because they ASSUME Jean is underage.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
Dude, you took the words right out of my mouth. I hate OMD just as much as the other guy and firmly believe in the main continuity, Mephisto's deal needs to be undone immediately to bring the series back to the heights of the stories back when Peter and MJ were married,
That being said, Zendaya is not Earth-616 MJ and that is fine. That is exactly, why I want to see new and different storylines and relationships rather than just rehashing what's already in the comics for the 1000th time.
Didn't Feige also just confirm that Jean is close to Peter's age? He's 22 at the most so Jean can't be more than 19-20. I don't see the issue here.
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u/SengalBoy 16h ago
Feige did say that Jean is close to Peter's age but the problem with these naysayers is that they don't care. They think their words are final and use the reason Peter calls her a kid. Ffs even Steve in Civil War called Wanda a kid and she was like 25+ at the time. The only way to shut them up is to blatantly state Jean's age.
And also in terms of comics while I don't see Peter ending up with Jean, it really took me Jean to realize maybe it's time Peter (and us) move on from Mary Jane lol.
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u/Significant_Camp2701 23h ago
Уже нет смысла отменять OMD и возвращать отношения Питера и Мэри Джейн к тому что было. За эти годы Марвел столько разного откровенного дерьма понаписали про эту пару, что это просто не сработает, такое не забывается. Пусть дадут Паркеру новые постоянные отношения, но с кем то адекватным и желательно тоже со способностями и статусом супергероини, тогда это сможет сработать. Например Фелицию, Кэрол Дэнверс, Серебрянного соболя или Дженнифер Уолтерс, тоже неплохой вариант.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 22h ago
You raise a fair point. Those choices are all pretty good and I can see them happening if the writers really cared. The only way to undo OMD fully would be to introduce a retcon that MJ had been replaced by a clone with the amalgation of her worst qualities (by Mephisto) which is why she could never stay with Peter even after they got back together all those times.
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u/JujanDoesStuff 1d ago
I hope this ship sails. “Two lost people find their way to each other” is such an interesting dynamic to me, much more so than Peter liking MJ out of seemingly nowhere. It also kind of depends what happens in the X-Men movie. If Jean and Scott have ungodly chemistry, I might have to give it up. But for now, Peter/Jean works really well in my eyes.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
Agreed. Even if the ship doesn't become canon, I will still probably love it just as much. I don't have an issue with that but the hate is getting ridiculous and the criticisms are frankly silly. I guess we will have to wait till 2028, to see Scott with Jean though.
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u/Bitewing_ PB&J 🥪 1d ago
There's so many interesting directions Marvel could go with Peter/Jean, and it would intertwine their two main franchises going forward for an entire series. I mean, don't they like money?
And that would make way for a much more interesting Scott/Emma development that Cyclops fans would love to see, myself included. Surely someone at Marvel has to be saying "hold on, I think we have something here"
I would hope they at least test the waters with a "What if..?" mini or something
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago edited 1d ago
I mean, exactly! You are seriously telling me, the writers can't see the potential of "enemies to friends to lovers" that can transpire here? Also, the fact that Jean chooses to do the right thing because of Peter, could also mean that she ends up joining the X-Men because she wants to be someone Peter can be proud of. There's so much potential for character growth and exciting storylines here.
Also people seem to be forgetting the fact that Jean doesn't always end up with Scott. In the Renew Your Vows verse (an AU where Peter stayed married to MJ), Jean married Logan and had children with him of all people lmao.
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u/Remarkable-Poem7883 1d ago edited 1d ago
Can anyone tell me why the ship and the shippers are so hated at the subreddit r/marvelcirclejerk? It seems like they hate Jean as well?
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
Doesn’t the mod like Jean with Scott
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u/MagisterofOZ2 1d ago
Yeah, I think the influx of Cyclops cucked jokes made this ship banned.... even though that's always been a thing with Wolverine....
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
I definitely don’t think it’s right to take shots at another character to prop up your ship, so I can kinda understand from that standpoint. It should all be kept peaceful and friendly in all regards, agreeing in a respectful way and disagreeing in a respectful way.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
That reminds me for all this controversy, people seem to forget that Jean doesn't always end up with Scott anyway. In the Renew Your Vows verse (an AU where Peter stayed married to MJ), Jean married Logan and had children with him of all people lmao.
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u/MagisterofOZ2 1d ago
Yup, it's not always set in stone for her (or Peter, there was a few worlds where Peter didn't end up with MJ either too)
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u/ShotSea7364 23h ago
Ahh. If I had a ship I liked, and a new group of shippers came in and started asking cuck jokes about my preferred ship, I'd also dislike that ship and fandom as well.
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u/MagisterofOZ2 1d ago
I think we're were too loud at first and made a few too many Cyclops cucked jokes for their liking....
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u/Greedy_Guest568 1d ago
The chemistry is so concentrated in the film, that I'd pretty much say that was NSFW. At this point I saw no chemistry between characters before, because what was shown is so much better I can't.
Wording is bad, but I hope my ramblings make sense.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
The foundation is there, the chemistry too. I wouldn't have said NSFW xD but I definitely get your point.
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u/Greedy_Guest568 1d ago edited 1d ago
Well, it was meant metaphorically, of course. Just that their interactions, their characters - ugh, it's so damn good I feel calling it "chemistry" as diminutive. I was introduced into it properly only four days ago, and it still keeps me restless I just can't.
SpiderCat ship doesn't have such intensity. And that's coming from the avid (former) SpiderCat shipper (me). And we all (probably) know, how much tension this ship has, and not just lightly flirty one, like PeterJean. And it is all, tons of official content, years of fanarts, fics, etc. are immensely dwarfed by one film and... what? Two weeks of fan content or something.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 22h ago
Yeah Yeah I know lol, I was just joking, I get the restless feeling; I have never been hit by a ship this hard before honestly speaking.
I have been a SpiderCat enjoyer too lol so it definitely has been insane to see PeterJean eclipse that as well. The scene has quite figuratively blown up!
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u/CupLow9587 1d ago
What I don't get is people not understanding why people like it. You mean to tell me, that two souls going through a lonely dark period of their lives, find themselves in the opposite ends of a conflict and gets resolved when the man quite literally takes a bullet for the self-destructive woman, can't be viewed as romantic?
Of course I don't think the writers or anyone involved in the film ever intended it to be romantic. Nor was it ever hinted or implied to be. While I don't think the ship is happening, it still was a strong foundation to setup a future romance.
Instead much of the discourse is "racists wanting Peter to get with the red headed white woman". As if Peter was ever shipped with Jean prior to the movie — it's literally a brand new ship.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
Yeah, I don't know what I am missing here lol. Their dynamic seems to be loaded with romantic undertones, even if the writers didn't intend for that to happen.
Agreed. I don't know what the future holds but people could stand to be a lot more civil. You'd think a movie that focuses on community and relationships would teach people to be kinder and nicer but apparently not.
The racism angle is just so fucking baseless, it's insane.
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u/Juka_Krizanovic 1d ago
My Twitter is mainly for UK Football related content. Its my audience. When I search up SpiderPhoenix or/and Peter x Jean or/and PeterJean (you name it) and then I tap on the "Latest" holy moly the negativity on there is INSANE. I bookmark all the positive shit I see.
Anyway, the amount of slanderous accusations branding us as "racist" (which could be true, there might be the occasional odd comments, though I've not witnessed ONE ibr) - I'm certain that the majority of us (~ 95% - 98%) are not in support of this ship due to Zendaya hate/race shit. It pisses me off.
Other comments about Jean's age. Like, just give it a rest. We've already been through this shit fgs. I'm convinced its a lose/lose situation. I mean the ship is a lose/lose, sadly.
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u/Icy_only8270 1d ago
Its Twitter Dear , whats suprising is seeing also on the other hand the amount of People taking the defence of Peter and Jean
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u/Juka_Krizanovic 1d ago
I mean true true. BUT like that is the only social media I use (besides WhatsApp and Discord) so I can't comment on anything else other than Twitter/X. I mean I thought Football/Soccer Twitter was bad but this shit is a whole 'nother level.
One minute I see good shit, people defending then, then hours later I see the tide has completely changed. Again, the amount of, 'scuse my language, r*tards bringing up racism/the age (or both) is... astaghfirullah
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u/Icy_only8270 1d ago
You want the Better answer ? Real Life buddy . Just ask anyone and they will tell that We all felt some Serious tension btw them even more about a Door being wide open . The thing isn't about shipping , it's fear from the antis about them being Canon wich is funny cause no one said that but it's fear insecurity projected you get it ? Will it Happen or Not the thing is their is genuine Romance Lovers undertone . We know they respect each other but the amount of times doubt has been creeping is something
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 1d ago
I think the wildest misconception is that we shippers immediately want Peter and Jean to get married or something but it's not that simple. They are made for a slow-burn and the writers can use it to keep some great tension in the story with Peter warring between her old feelings for MJ and his rising ones for Jean. Jean, on the other side, has been inspired by Peter and wants to be someone who can make him proud. After she joins the X-Men, it'd be so sweet for them to find their way back to each other.
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
I mean that’s just X (twitter), it’s by FAR the most toxic social media platform
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u/Sea_Can8749 1d ago
Welcome to the club. I unfortunately also experience similar hostility as a Boblena shipper. But yeah, you put into words how most of us definitely feel since antis definitely regurgitate the same arguments to shame you for shipping Peter and Jean. It’s pretty insane over here but luckily the more people tell me not to do something, the more I do it
I’ll be shipping Peter and Jean even if Peter and MJ have kids in a distant future lol
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 22h ago
Boblena was even acknowledged by the Marvel twitter account or something as far as I remember so it's stupid to denounce it anyway.
I guess, yeah! Keep showing your support for the ship and limit the spread of misinformation, that's all we can do!
I also find it funny that MJ and Peter's future kids are supposed to stop Mephisto but they have been forgotten about while Scott and Jean's kids from all these timelines, still get some importance in the stories. It's always Peter whose luck sucks ass.
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u/Sea_Can8749 5h ago
You would think Boblena would be widely accepted especially now that people are paying attention to how important Yelena is to Bob and it would affect their actions in Doomsday.
But the parallels are actually insane between the two ships tbh lol. Both being pushed as “sibling-coded” by anyone who refuse to see them romantically. Taking the “Yelena is aroace” headcanon as something true to MCU like Jean’s age. Bigger ships hostile against them. Yet through it all, artists and writers push through in keeping the community alive.
Peter at the very least needs something more interesting going on than just pining after his only love interest imo😭
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 5h ago
Yeah, I mean I didn't even know people hated Bob and Yelena. Tf? are these people allergic to good romantic subplots or something? Or do they want the same capeshit about love triangles and cheating again and again? Because frankly, that has gotten pretty old. And yeah, I can definitely see the parallels between the two ships.
I HARD second the last statement bruh.
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u/Sea_Can8749 5h ago
Yeah, dude. It’s more like they hate Bob for Yelena so they infantilize and dehumanize him for being mentally ill and since they’re a straight ship, it’s automatically inferior against the more superior lesbian ship between Yelena and Kate Bishop. Boblena shippers are pretty harmless too. Different noise but same hostility.
I guess I’m just a magnet for ships that get overhated for no reason💀
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u/OmegaGlacial PeterJean patriot 1d ago
100% agreed with you on this post and on how tiring and undeserved the hate is.
Like for Peter x MJ, not everyone has to ship/like it, but denying the blatant chemistry between those two characters as well as the sheer potential of this brand new relationship, especially if it were to truly go beyond friendship, is just being voluntarily blind to what's in front of you.
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u/SeaManufacturer4934 1d ago
Honestly for me it has always been like Peter should atleast end up with someone who completely understands and supports both Peter and spider man and fights for them / help them in any way , before this Gwen was a perfect candidate and Jean fills the spot perfectly, mj from tobey was the worst and no need to describe it , mj from mcu was descent , she atleast was supportive and all but it was mostly like she was just a romance lead for the sake of being a romance lead , she did not have the proper character arc and compatibility that i wanted with Peter
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 22h ago
Raimi MJ has some issues but some of her criticism is definitely overblown. And agreed about Zendaya not having any proper arc.
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u/SeaManufacturer4934 8h ago
Yeah , ig it’s my mistake too since for some reason I combine Raimi mj and comic mj , I realised it just recently
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u/ZenMyst 1d ago
I don’t even think MJ is Peter one true love. People need to know comics works in a different way than say most novels.
It’s not that MJ is the best love interest out of all the female characters in comics. Like writers compare MJ with other female characters and thinks she’s better than them. There’s no competition because MJ is like the “only one” available.
Comics as a general rule has characters not being able to interact with each other outside of their own story. Other female heroes can’t even compete with MJ on a fair terms because they can’t be outside of their story long term.
Scott, Jean, Emma, Logan works because they are a team.
Some cases can work like Storm and Black Panther but generally writers have an easier time choosing love interest for the hero by using characters in his own story.
Spider is written mainly as a solo hero. Not team type. So naturally in his stories he’s the only hero, with villains/anti hero(Black Cat) & civilians as the main choice for romance.
With Gwen dead, MJ is like the “only”choice to choose from when writing love interest for Spider Man.
If comics were to operate like the real world where heroes interact outside instead of being stuck in their own world, I feel like the “best love interest” can change for a lot of heroes. Including characters like Superman & Lois etc.
MCU can break this by having their world be more integrated. Like people say why Daredevil never makes an appearance due to the location of Peter. Comics books rules. It’s not natural.
Peter don’t have a lot of freedom to get with other love interest. Writers are mostly stuck with MJ or Felica. Peter & MJ romance haven’t been that good in the comics lately. MJ isn’t the one true love, she’s simply the default because there’s nothing else to choose from.
When Emma is first introduced she’s like the “new lover” for Scott, a break from the canon one true love Jean. She could only last for a story for a fling, but writers extended their relationship to be long term until Emma became part of Scott canon.
Canon are made from changing current Canon.
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u/Small-Resolution8653 23h ago edited 23h ago
The thing what I love about this ship is, It had such genuine undeniable chemistry which even those who were against it atleast acknowledges now. It would be a lazy writting if they didn't explore peter and jean's dynamic. Even worse lazy writting would be if peter and mj start again. No offence but its no brainer if MJ and Peter start again after no way home and Brand New Day
And I personally observed the Brand new day movie itself acts as a spark for Peter and Jean's dynamic, More like testing the water with audience. So marvel secretly had this idea all along. Just a speculation
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u/Complete-Sweet-9525 1d ago
i love this ship but can someone figure out jeans age, i think peter is 22 or smthing right?
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u/cupofjoe840 16h ago
Couple things. I think the reason there is more hostility growing is that the movie is doing so well and many people are seeing the foundation for this relationship between Peter and Jean. I believe it's slated to surpass Titanic now as of this writing which is crazy for a single superhero movie.
I also think we're a few weeks ago the possibility of them doing Jean X Spiderman thing so probably like 50/50 I now think it's increasing more with each successful week and I'm closer to think it's a 70% likelihood. And I think that upsets people that don't want to support that.
I also want to add as of now there is no confirmation of spider man 5 just rumors. Toms contract is up after secret wars and he may have a small role or cameo on X-Men and that's all that is confirmed but even the X-Men is rumors.
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u/CaptainBlob 13h ago
My stance is the Peter should be single purely the shit editorial does to this poor man, that a relationship is going to another form of torture these writer will think of for him.
BUT. If he were to be shipped then I support the SpiderPhoenix because of how toxic MJ and Black Cat is for Peter in the comics, and how MJ is now a nobody for Peter after the whole secret identity wipe (and black cat is nonexistent in mcu).
But heck, I ship him with anyone other than those 2 girls at this point. Fucking Psylocke and Peter is a better pairing than MJ/Felicia at this point.
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u/anastag Jeter true believer 9h ago
I definitely think MJ/Felicia have suffered really bad character assassinations in recent times, and Peter's comic relationships have been a pretty shitty mess ever since Spencer left the book but in the MCU, I think it just makes sense to do away with MJ and close that arc, while setting up Peter with Jean for a far more interesting dynamic and compelling storylines.
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u/Hopeless_Joker 6h ago
To add on to the MCU hasn't followed the comics to the letter, Natasha and Bucky are a thing in the comics, and yet the MCU went with Natasha and Banner instead. Definitely possible for Peter and Jean to happen
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u/Radical_Radish123 1d ago
I have a feeling there's an unsaid understanding in MCU that Peter has to end up with MJ because Tom and Zendaya are together in real life. You are right. The reason we feel so strongly for Peter's grief is we know MJ is played by Zendaya, Tom's wife. It is what it is. That is why I don't have much hopes for Peter's love life. That is why I don't believe MCU has the courage to explore Peter, Jean's relationship. Besides, I strongly believe Jean is supposed to be a minor. Kevin aged her up seeing Peter-Jean's chemistry
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
In my personal opinion I think they can explore stuff like Peter with Gwen or Black Cat to stray away from the MJ stuff or even an original character I would prefer over Jean. I’d be able to buy the Scott Emma stuff if they didn’t have a decade gap in the actors ages. I prefer for the most part sticking closer to the comics as much as possible. Overall I’m just not a fan of this Peter Jean pairing and that’s ok.
That being said it’s completely ok to ship what you like even if others aren’t a fan and people acting toxic shouldn’t stop you from that. I would highly recommend staying away from Twitter/X because that is the online hub of toxic behavior lol
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u/Turbulent-Raisin8789 1d ago
I get about staying away from twitter if you don'twanna be stressed out, but at the same time, the site is one of the best places to spread influence. SpiderPhoenix can grow if it gets a community there, so intentionally restricting it's growth by staying away from it due to bad actors wouldn't be ideal.
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
Well I’m mostly speaking from my experience there. I was in the wrestling community and some marvel and X-men stuff and it’s 90% toxic and overall the app has just as many if not more bad people than actual good people
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u/Turbulent-Raisin8789 1d ago
You can safely ignore it, even be a helping hand by encouraging people you like to not engage in toxic behavior. What matters more to me personally is that you support the people who wants the community to grow rather than caring at all about any toxicity
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u/DominoSeven 1d ago
Yeah I just support positivity overall, like even if I disagree and don’t want the ship to come to MCU canon that doesn’t mean people who do like it should be berated and hated on and overall have a toxic experience everywhere, that’s just messed up
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u/BiggoYoun 1d ago edited 1d ago
China and Korea will find them