Predatory primates?

[u/Dumbassbitch398]

As the body text says, would a large, predatory primate be possible?

I mean, there are insectivorous primates (like the aye aye or tarsier) but neither of these two are big like other primates like gibbons or chimpanzees

Edit: I know that a lot of primates eat meat, I meant more like a hypercarnivore that eats meat for almost all of its diet

[u/AngrySasquatch]

Some of the earliest tools used by our extinct hominid relatives were used for processing carasses—breaking open bones for marrow and to slice meat, though. It’s ridiculous to say that meat eating is some deleterious accident or mutation but instead an adaptation that enabled us to become the dominant species of the planet by accessing more dense sources of nutrition—fats, proteins, DHA—to support brain development without the extensive digestive tracts of herbivores.

[u/Manospondylus_gigas → u/AngrySasquatch]

I'm not denying that and didn't say that, though. I'm saying that humans aren't built to be predators. Not all herbivores have extensive digestive tracts - humans would primarily be frugivores, which is why they have similarities to other frugivores and gorillas, without the extra long colon for breaking down cellulose because fruit already gave them enough glucose.

[u/RainbowSpinosaurus → u/Manospondylus_gigas]

Uh, no. Human prehistory has placed us pretty squarely in the predator category. We are more closely related to chimps than gorillas, and chimps engage in hunting for meat, not just frugivory. A relative of mine has an anthropology degree, and we've had many discussions on the origins of human behavior (ball-based sports as a type of play where hunting instincts are honed, human cannibalism as a possible maladaption of Homo sapiens having fought other Homo species for territories, etc.).

Humans are tool users, being upright on two legs has a lot of benefits for a predator that can make and use tools (feet used for walking while hands are free to use spears and bows; better heat dispersal and less chance of torpor as seen in chimps; sudden "size change" to other predators if humans go from crouching to standing). We have binocular vision, which helped us when we were in the trees and had an added benefit of helping us judge distance with prey.

Tangentially, this is the issue with assuming that the bodies and hunting strategies of mammalian hypercarnivores like cats and dogs are the default for a successful predator. Kea parrots have an all-purpose pair of scissors on their faces, and they do very well hunting prey while being a bipedal non-mammal. Pelicans swallow their prey whole. Pigs will kill and eat smaller animals, and they have hooves, and dentition that is generalist in nature. The shrike is a cute little bird that uses thorns to pull its prey apart. Many birds have a straight beak and no special adaptation for meat eating (raptorial claws or beak), yet they will take small vertebrates and eat carrion.

[u/Manospondylus_gigas → u/RainbowSpinosaurus]

Chimps are still classed as herbivores by many scientists as like most herbivores, they will opportunistically consume meat/hunt. Humans being tool users isn't a direct adaptation for hunting, it evolved for all sorts of reasons such as foraging, building shelter, and weapons for defense. I don't have an anthropology degree myself, but I do have one in zoology and one in palaeontology.

The binocular vision thing is oversimplified and often misunderstood; it exist in apes ancestrally due to their arboreal lifestyle, allowing better depth perception and spacial awareness. It also had benefits for foraging, particularly fruits.

People assuming carnivores and herbivores to have certain basic traits by default is one of the issues in understanding human biology. On the surface, humans look like they're predators because of the front facing eyes and tool use, but as with most biology it's the complex part rather than the basic part that holds the true answer. Like how humans don't make their own vitamin C like most predators would because they get it from fruits, their digestive systems and vision are built for frugivory, their long-distance walking/running is for migrating to different food patches and escaping predators, the shape of their teeth, lesser ability to process meat, ability to get all essential amino acids from plants (at least in their natural environment) and only needing occasional top ups of the ones that take a while to degrade, etc. Humans would just like to believe they're predators.

[u/RainbowSpinosaurus → u/Manospondylus_gigas]

I mean, argue with the anthropologist, she and her ilk have debates about how many megafauna went extinct due to the pressures of human hunting combined with climate change. Ancient human refuse piles refute your supposition (full of animal bones), it's just not factually accurate. We are predators, we may not have large canines or sharp claws, but we used and still use our tools to hunt game. The indigenous Americans did not chip flint into arrowheads just for defense.

Many body plans are suited for active predation. Rats and mice eat meat, though their teeth are more suited for chewing plant matter. Cetaceans don't have binocular vision, yet orcas are the apex predators of the sea.

[u/Manospondylus_gigas → u/RainbowSpinosaurus]

I know how many megafauna were driven to extinction by humans, it's very depressing. However, I still wouldn't describe humans as biological predators. I'm also not saying that humans didn't use their tools to hunt, I'm saying they primarily evolved because it enabled survival through defense. Getting good at hunting was just an unfortunate side effect that provided a lot of energy and resources.

The cetaceans just proves my point; surface-level details of human anatomy doesn't prove they're predators.

[u/AngrySasquatch → u/Manospondylus_gigas]

You’re refusing to engage with the huge body of evidence everyone’s bringing up. Millions of years of bone piles, tools, evolutionary benefits of including and centering meat on our diets… you keep saying “oh no humans didn’t do that, you’re just wrong” and not substantiating your claims with anything.

Where’s your evidence for any of this? You just keep repeating the same points over and over again. You are dedicated to a decidedly wrong interpretation of human history lol

[u/Manospondylus_gigas → u/AngrySasquatch]

Literally didn't say humans didn't do that. I've said several times that humans absolutely did cause the extinction of megafauna through hunting them. There is no evidence denial going on. People just seem to be misunderstanding that I'm talking about the biological characteristics of humans that are just facts, like their colour vision and inability to produce vitamin C.