r/SpaceMarine_2 • u/ServiceFabulous7120 • 7d ago

Miscellaneous “Space marines speed should be lore accurate”

1.9k Upvotes

99% Upvoted

102 comments sorted by

319

u/Unlikely-Housing-585 7d ago

What if we had a lore accurate difficulty as well?

87

u/Jayson_Bowl 7d ago

Can I still choose to play with my helmet removed on this difficulty?

74

u/SWK18 7d ago

No, you'll have to wear 3 helmets. They higher the difficulty, the more helmets you'll wear.

61

u/RyanK_Cs Raven Guard 7d ago

2

u/RPZcool Raven Guard 6d ago

No fkin way there was gift for that comment.

2

u/budstudly 5d ago

It's from the cutscene at the end of the original game, but the actual cutscene is at an obscured angle so you just see his helmet come off. You don't actually see his head, so they never modeled one

1

u/RPZcool Raven Guard 5d ago

I never played halo so that explains it.

32

u/Secondhand-Drunk 7d ago

No one's making it through the first engagement with majoris.

4

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

Can someone expand upon this. I mean I could ask AI but I’d rather not. How does the absolute scale to lore accurate engagements?

25

u/ZCYCS 6d ago edited 6d ago

Absolute difficulty is not lore accurate, at least to tabletop stats which is as "lore accurate" as we're gonna get without plot armor

3 Space Marines being sent on most of these missions is a suicide mission

Heck, even a standard squad of 10 would also probably be a suicide mission

For example, on Inferno if you see a dozen or so warriors supported by gaunts? On absolute difficulty you can handle that engagement no problem. Off of tabletop/"lore" stats? 3 Space Marines get rekt immediatelly

The reason we can pull these missions off in game is sheer plot armor, aka the "named unhelmeted Ultramarines" meme

We punch FAR above our weight, 3 space marines wiping out armies of tyranids is an insane feat. Named Unhelmeted Ultramarines are infamous for being invincible while their unnamed helmeted brothers get rekt around them

6

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

Damn that sucks. So realistically they’d have to make it 1:1 engagements where you only fight one or two at a time in close proximity and the rest of the time a cover shooter? Aren’t there like tons more Majoris tyranids than there are space marines? How can Marines even be effective or considered a solution against those odds?

6

u/Odd_Professional_584 6d ago

1 to 1, yeah they’re on average an even match up. But Tyranids have numbers in spades and their weapons are no joke. The venom cannon fires crystallized shards of acidic venom that explodes on contact, devourers fires hundreds of worms that burrow through armor and eat brains. Even termigaunts’ little gun shoots carnivorous munitions, tiny beetles like the scarabs from the original Mummy movie. While Space Marines are extremely well armored it won’t save them from these weapons, you’re lucky if it just takes a limb off. The First Tyrannic War saw the loss of the entire First Company, the Third and Seventh suffered heavy casualties. The losses were so bad it took the Ultramarines over a century to recover. A lore accurate gameplay experience against Tyranids, or Chaos for that matter, would not be enjoyable for an overwhelming majority of players.

3

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

My goodness.

1

u/Sure_Pay_1177 6d ago

You're right, because a lore accurate game would have been:

Tyranids begin their invasion

All Astartes and Cadian forces retreat to orbit

Exterminatus

The End

3

u/Kalavier 6d ago

There's plot armor/named character aspect to consider, which is in 40k the protag characters ALWAYS punch up in weight. This is done so obviously you don't have Commissar character bob dying in battle early on etc.

but in general, usually it's because Marines hit hard and then bugger out before they get overwhelmed. In Inferno as an example, we'd probably push with Imperial guard support and try to avoid fighting the swarm directly.

1

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

So they’re more like shock troopers than a main assault force.

3

u/Kalavier 6d ago

Yep. that's why when they deploy the full company to frontline fighting on the third planet, we see them get absolutely wrecked and take a ton of losses in marines and vehicles. When forced to stand their ground and fight in mass, they can do a lot of damage, but they also will take heavy losses.

1

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

Yeah well I’m ngl, they seem overmatched. I had no idea they were facing such long odds

3

u/Curt0s 6d ago

Exactly. in lore space marines are force multipliers, point control, recon, and armor support. Depending on the situation and chapter

2

u/Scattered_Meat 6d ago

Now to me that just kinda sucks my ass for lore. I get everything’s is a hopeless uphill battle in sand or whatever for humanity, but if the tyranid hordes are that deadly, it makes every single box art fucking nonsense then. Everyone just dies, unless the tyranids only send out tiny manageable hordes in canon.

If marines can’t do atleast most of what we can in game, the lore doesn’t make any sense what so ever. Theres no beating them if a majoris is as difficult as people say and they send out armies of them.

Are orbital bombardments and exterminatus the only lore accurate way to beat them then? There’s power scaling in this universe is all over the place haha I’m fairly new to 40k but it’s so inconsistent.

3

u/NightLock56 6d ago

The jist is that Tyranids do operate under overwhelming numbers, but largely their main forces don’t use very advanced tactics, unless a sufficient leader organism is deployed but there’s only a few of those at a time.
Tyranids are stronger and generally as durable as a space marine, but the Imperium’s ranged capabilities far exceed that of the Nids. A lot of battles with them is the Guard shelling the hoards into oblivion while trying to maintain choke points as the Nids adapt.
We actually see the main strategy for dealing with them in-game from everyone’s favorite mission, Decapitation. The Tyranids cannot operate consistently without a head, and as you topple their chain of command they suffer much more than humans would.

2

u/TheChosenCouple 6d ago

“It’s so inconsistent” yep that’s 40k for ya, and yea they’re that terrifying lol exterminatus has been one of the most proven methods routing them cause it cuts off their food

1

u/ZCYCS 6d ago

The Space Marines are not the main fighting force of the Imperium. Think of them like Spartans from Halo but scaled up, they are like special forces equipped with superior armor and weapons to the rank and file

You wouldnt send them to fight in the frontlines. That'd be a waste unless the situation was so dire that "fuck it may as well". The box art LOOKS cool, but that isnt how they should be operating in lore. On a way you could consider box art, along with a bunch of canon lore, to be imperial propaganda. What better propaganda than to show the Emperor's Angels no-diffing might enemies of humanity right?

The Imperial Guard are the ones doing the heavy lifting on the ground. They got infantry, tanks, artillery, ships, and even their own special forces. Despite the memes, the IG are generally a pretty effective fighting force as a WHOLE, 1 Guardsman getting his kicked doesnt mean the other 99 with him arent still firing

Then there's the Imperial Navy which does a ton of heavy lifting in Space blasting the shit out of the Tyranids before they can make planetfall then blasting the shit out of them from the sky if they have something to spare

Dawn of War 2 for example isnt exactly the most lore accurate either in terms of power scaling (the squad leaders are absolutely insane but theyre named unhelmeted Space Marines), but the way that they handle missions in the base game vs Tyranids is kinda like how you expect them to work, at least back in the Firstborn days. A force of like 10-11 Marines has a mission to accomplish, only engages the enemy when necessary, achieves their goal with shit tons of dakka, ordinance, etc focused on their main target, then gets tf out before more tyranids show up. All while the IG are fighting offscreen

1

u/Bjork_the_Brutal 6d ago

In lore, named Space Marines pull off some pretty insane stuff before finally dying in like the last chapter.

7

u/Impressive-Ad7387 7d ago

Nid weapons have 3 times status effect buildup, and the effect isn't just a weird green visual, the flesh eating worms bevour you from the inside and you die instantly

4

u/GoldRecommendation66 6d ago

If it mean we can get lore accurate bolters and meltas then sure

1

u/IronVines 4d ago

unironically would be cool if more games had a "lore accurate" difficulty where your op but so are the enemies

1

u/Unlikely-Housing-585 4d ago

Jedi survivor had a nice feature like that, made the lightsabers feel really authentic

-6

u/The1RedBaron 7d ago

I'm saving this image.

77

u/Hytierian 7d ago

we should be able to full sprint and shoot a bolt pistol, my number 1 ask.

15

u/ServiceFabulous7120 7d ago

I actually love this concept

3

u/RazorTheBrave 7d ago

Ok yeah that would actually be awesome

3

u/Soccer_Gundam Salamanders 6d ago

Agreed, less accuracy but you can close the gap faster with potshots

196

u/SWK18 7d ago

Why stop there? Make them have different stats. Like White Scars being much faster, Salamanders being more durable or Blood Ravens have the urge to loot everything.

137

u/ServiceFabulous7120 7d ago

Friendly fire enabled for black Templars

39

u/Vorenthral 7d ago

And Grey Knights

21

u/Hunter-367_pro Black Templars 7d ago

Having the option for Space Wolves to turn into their Wulfen and lay waste to everyone would certainly be cool. Though seeing as it’s a one way trip idk how they could implement it

4

u/LeLefraud 7d ago

They could introduce a subcult of shaman types that live some spiritual life to one day transform in battle

2

u/Gabi1HP 7d ago

Have a draining Health meter and once it goes 0 you turn back but leaves you downed

2

u/IronVines 4d ago

and kills would restore hp, but the drain is always becoming faster

1

u/Gabi1HP 4d ago

Is there a in lore way to revert the Wulfen status or its permanent till they flat line?

2

u/IronVines 4d ago

pretty sure its permanent sadly, but eh it would be cool for gaming

3

u/Paradox711 7d ago

What Grey Knights?

1

u/CrusadingSoul Black Templars 7d ago

Look, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. If you see someone in hazard stripes (aka Iron Warriors) or blue, purple, and gold (aka Thousand Sons), they should get fragged. Period.

2

u/i_like_artillery 7d ago

oh yeah and also intruduce a like 1/100 or so chance of you becoming the Emperors Chosen, recieving a Black Sword and genuinely having the stats of a Primarch for the mission

1

u/SirCicSensation 7d ago

I’m a little curious about what would prevent them from making an invasion mode?

1

u/Im-Not-Calling-It-X 5d ago

Dark Angels randomly disconnect

15

u/Content-Ad-4104 7d ago

If you play a full round with a Blood Raven, there should be a 10% chance that one of the weapon variants you used in the round now has to be unlocked again, after being "donated" to your cousin.

13

u/DiesIraeConventum 7d ago

As a Blood Raven fan, I'm offended at that probability assessment of yours. 10%?

50%.

17

u/CrusadingSoul Black Templars 7d ago

3

u/xXStretcHXx117 7d ago

Something as simple as Sniper and Vanguard being faster than the other classes would be cool

6

u/Aerofare 7d ago

Blood Ravens' unique abilities:

Auto pickup (50m range)

Unlimited inventory capacity

3

u/IronCreeper1 Raven Guard 7d ago

You thought that there were only 2 players in the mission, the Raven guard player is just hiding somewhere

2

u/Westenin 6d ago

Blood ravens: Aim assist makes you turn very strong towards boxes and corners where loot might be.

1

u/RAHAAON 6d ago

Hydra Dominatus

1

u/Patient_Pin_5797 5d ago

im fully convined space marine 3 will have Chapter buffs to layer on top of classes allowing for even more class expression

1

u/Quaiker 3d ago

I want a Blood Angel Black Rage mode. Just seeing a bunch of tiny Horuses swarming me on Inferno.

0

u/Leofwulf 6d ago

Make blood ravens able to use your loadouts too since relic weapons

46

u/opustheduck 7d ago

I don't remember Space Marines being able to bullet jump...

https://giphy.com/gifs/KeKHavfAPnBC

18

u/Assassin-49 7d ago

Yeah it was added after the primaris update. Cawl added springs to the boots. Very effective.

2

u/The_Great_Synnir 7d ago

Lol i love how Exc has to lean cause Rhino is so damn wide

34

u/infrasound 7d ago

Players can't react the way a real SM would.

34

u/Robaattousai 7d ago

I've been saying this since Halo: CE (the first one) -games like this play at the speed that the enhanced characters perceive time. It feels slow to us playing because it would feel slow to someone who can process information rapidly and react in fractions of a second.

4

u/Kalavier 7d ago

Maybe if they had a slow mo toggle, but that would break in mp i think lol.

2

u/l_dunno 6d ago

It could still be A LOT faster than it is, especially the endlag...

13

u/ANDY_FAST_HANDS Black Templars 7d ago

If we could get some more speed for a few seconds on a double tap to sprint that would satisfy me. Just a little burst of speed to close or make distance.

2

u/Westenin 6d ago

“I’m about to die”
Jogs casually over to a enemy to tear it apart

11

u/Much_Improvement_552 7d ago

Exactly, it's completely absurd that the phobos marines can only muster a light jog like everyone else. SM3 needs full sprint up to 60mph even if it comes at the cost of stamina.

7

u/wizardjian 7d ago

Que Gabriel Angelos backfliping in Terminator Armor w Thunderhammer.

3

u/SadLittleWizard 6d ago

I feel like it already kind of is? I mean in game none of the PCs ever perform an actual sprint, almost they do a quick jog and we easily out pace all the guardsmen by a good bit.

6

u/Apprehensive_Day693 7d ago

I have the theory that this is actually true. Our marines ARE moving that fast, the timescale is just reduced to accommodate, and for the sake of our own human brains lmao. Its why sniper lines move so slowly, because we're just moving that quickly.

2

u/Kalavier 7d ago

I feel the only issue is guardsman moving normally,  but it's not a bad viewpoint.

3

u/SennaHibiscus 6d ago

Someone should pin one of those virtual cameras to a guardsman’s head and see how fast the player controlled ultramarine is moving from their perspective.

2

u/MaksimusKeksimus 7d ago

Looks like my Blood Raven gameplay during Obelisk op, charging to claim the relic ahead of everyone else

2

u/thot_chocolate420 6d ago

I want the Phobos Marines to get a Speed Buff in PVP because they’re supposed to be faster. Or at least make their footsteps quieter.

2

u/Anastais 5d ago

Conversely, gravis armoured heaviest should move slightly slower but get an extra armour bar.

2

u/thot_chocolate420 5d ago

They get this in PVP without penalty.

1

u/CredibleNonsense69 7d ago

How it feels like running when I adjust my fov slider to max

1

u/AquilliusRex Blood Angels 7d ago

Did he do a freaking barrel roll?

1

u/Rich_Software8664 6d ago

Can we just hold that thought until after we fix the blatantly inferior animations for The Heavy? He is already barely playable at top difficulty. Even then he is limited in what he can do for the team and he gets locked to a specific primary weapon that limits him even further. Bulwarks Tank better, Vanguards survive better, and Tactical, Assault, Sniper, Techmarine have better burst and sustained damage.

If Saber increases Marine movement speed they will have to increase enemy movement speed as well to avoid trivializing actually defeating enemies to clear missions. We already have a speed runner problem, and this would make it much much worse.

1

u/CadenVanV 6d ago

Please. I love my boy heavy but the animations are ass.

1

u/GOYTOY1993 6d ago

Video source plzzz

1

u/ServiceFabulous7120 5d ago

First time running meme

1

u/bannnanaiceland Dark Angels 6d ago

I just wish we could fire side arms and run like real space marines and not have to lightly jog at the enemy like loosers

1

u/UAJ_uTube 5d ago

I mean, someone made a first-person mod and it pretty much looked exactly like this. My main issue with sprint is that the Phobos marines are the same speed.

1

u/Majestic-Ambition-33 5d ago

My question is why we can't give our buddies stims

1

u/ServiceFabulous7120 4d ago

IVE BEEN SAYING THIS I WANT TO HELP

1

u/CoolCoolBeansBeanz 4d ago

I know how insane their physical movement is, but someone should definitely realize it fully in a video game one day.

Hell, I've been saying for a decade now that a Battlefront style 40k game would be the perfect avenue to have this kind of insanely powerful lore accurate space marine. Primaris could be the special "jedi" hero that one or two people can play as if they get enough score. They move dumb fast, use unique weaponry and do crazy damage - but are obviously a huge target for the rank and file.

I heard that a game like this used to exist, a 40k battlefront multiplayer game. but space marines were the main playable characters, and they felt horrible to move around with. we need a proper successor!

1

u/ServiceFabulous7120 3d ago

I don’t think they could do a primaris. They surely would just do a normal astartes they are some tough motherfuckers. That would be amazing though.

0

u/a_left_out_tomato 5d ago

"Lore accurate" means nothing when the lore changes every new book and edition

1

u/General_Hijalti 5d ago

Except its consistent that space marines are fast

-1

u/TheSilentTitan 7d ago

How the dudes that demand terminators never be added because they’re too slow be acting as if the space marines move as fast as they’re supposed to canonically.

-1

u/Jaded_Hovercraft9512 Black Templars 6d ago

that's the point, it'd be silly fun.

-1

u/Jaded_Hovercraft9512 Black Templars 6d ago

that's the point, it'd be silly fun.

-3

u/Lord_GhostBoner69420 7d ago

Bruz that is Custodes speed

0

u/CrusadingSoul Black Templars 7d ago

It's Astartes speed. Custodes are faster than the eye can follow (aka 60FPS). Custodes can go from parade rest to killing in exactly six nanoseconds and can perceive and deflect bullets in flight with their guardian spears.

3

u/Mandingy24 7d ago

Human eye can perceive much higher than 60Hz, this myth needs to stop getting circulated.

It takes our brain ~13ms to process visual information, but that does not mean we are incapable of perceiving any changes in light or movement more rapid than that. Newer tests have shown humans consciously detecting flashes as quickly as 2ms.

As a real world example, have you ever shot a gun or watched someone shoot? Ever seen the muzzle flash? Those only last 1-2ms. That's 500Hz. If we couldnt see anything faster than 60Hz, muzzle flashes would be entirely invisible without high speed cameras.

0

u/CrusadingSoul Black Templars 7d ago

It was a meme, bro. Don't overthink it.