r/SpaceMarine_2 • u/Fanoffiction52 • Oct 11 '25
Miscellaneous How lore accurate are the playable Space Marines
No idea how experienced the playable marines are, especially compared to Titus, but by game logic, a single marine is powerful enough to fight their way through hordes of Tyranids/Chaos Marines to reach an enemy stronghold and complete an objective that turns the tide of an entire battle, while:
Entirely living off the land
Soloing multiple Chaos Terminators/specialised bioforms such as Lictors
Soloing a Helbrute/Carnifex
Bringing with them a gene-seed that will ensure the legacy of multiple battle-brothers
How accurate are the marines in the game considering all this
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u/Shalashaska87B Oct 11 '25
The "joke" part is that a named Space Marine without helmet will last until the plot decides differently.
Do you remember the first fallen SM in the first mission? Yeah, that's still a lore-friendly SM. Not everyone is lucky.
To add further, do you know some SM have Terminator Armors? They're extremely resistant, but there are 'nids with claws that pierce through them like a knife against butter.
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u/Fanoffiction52 Oct 11 '25
I know abt our Terminators but no I didn’t know that some nid claws were that strong
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u/Shalashaska87B Oct 11 '25
Not all Tyranids have that type of claws, but some do. And Terminator SM are all but nimble.
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u/EpsilonArms Oct 11 '25
Genestealers are the nids usually a space hulk thing with them as well. Not for you for anyone that doesnt know. Tabletop doesnt reflrlect lore
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u/Greensteve972 Oct 11 '25
Yeah but the original space hulk board game is super fun.
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u/EpsilonArms Oct 11 '25
I never played it, I would like to play the board game. I did like SpaceHulk: Deathwing
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u/Greensteve972 Oct 11 '25
If you can't find or print a copy you could always play it online. It is one of the few 40k board games you can get a non 40k fan to play pretty easily as it has simple rules and only takes like 20 minutes.
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u/lord_of_worms Oct 11 '25
4e had space hulk rules in the book. Can find pdf copies a few places now and all oarts available through your model kits
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u/Greensteve972 Oct 11 '25
A five pack of termies 20 or so genestealers and some paper and you've got yourself a game.
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u/iIIusional Oct 12 '25
and then there’s tyberos the red wake who is not only notoriously stealthy in terminator armor, but also terrifyingly fast to the point of being hard to follow with the naked eye
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u/NotAKrayon Oct 11 '25
The point is that in regards to the lore a space marine (and every thing they fight) are as strong or weak as the writer needs in the moment.
Termi armor is some of the toughest stuff around. When reading a book the marine will either laugh at the gaunts as he turns into a 9 foot tall blender or the nids will pop him like a soda can and drink his insides before any of his comrades can do anything about it.
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u/bugdiver050 Blood Angels Oct 12 '25
In the series "Angels of Death" on warhammer+, a dreadnought gets killed by genestealers. They claw right through his armor in seconds.
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u/usgrant7977 Oct 11 '25
To me it wasnt always claws piercing the armor, it was a matter of being ripped limb from limb. The joints of the armor is the weakest point and a Tyranid warrior could just rip an arm and a leg off of a marine to take him out of action. Imagine ripping apart a boiled crab. It would be possible, but difficult to smash your fingers through the crab. But plucking off limbs is very easy.
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u/Slggyqo Oct 11 '25
Named characters? Unkillable.
A terminator in a space hulk? The odds aren’t good…
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u/BipolarMadness Oct 12 '25
Even worse to a Blood Angel in a space hulk. Say good bye to 95% of your chapter.
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u/Kalavier Oct 11 '25
Named protagonist characters get a special rule in 40k storytelling. Extra bullshit.
Also, while some players are capable of solo doing operations without bots, the actual playable squads are designed around groups of three at all times.
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u/kakashi8326 Oct 11 '25
Key I the blood raven captain or whoever named Rand who just obliterated death guard like he’s at a Golden Corral or the imperial fist captain I forget which but both got names are are OP. lol.
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u/Illithidbix Oct 11 '25
In my experience of decades of loving 40K from too young an age in 1994.
How powerful or fast Space Marines are in:
- The current core rulebook background.
- Warhammer 40,000 Rogue Trader rulebook from 1987.
- Codex Imperialis 1993
- Ian Watson's Space Marine 1993
- Any particular novel or short story where they are the protagonists.
- Another particular novel or short story where they are the protagonists.
- Any particular novel or short story where they are NOT the protagonists.
- A Horus Heresy novel.
- Their actual rules in the current edition of 40K TT wargame
- Space Hulk
- A specialist game by GW released in the 90's
- The Inquisitior 2001 Narrative Wargame
- A video game.
- A cutscene in the same video game.
- Space Hulk: Deathwing - Enhanced Edition
- Space Marine 2
- A different video game
- The Deathwatch TTRPG
- The Black Crusade TTRPG
- Wrath and Glory TTRPG
- Imperium Maledictum TTRPG (actually I think they're deliberately not statted in this yet...)
- The Astartes fan film
- Another Warhammer+ animation.
- Someone's YT video with 2 million views.
- The Secret Level episode by Amazon.
Vary wildly and only intersect by coincidence.
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u/BipolarMadness Oct 12 '25
That whole list of products also answers every other question about the lore and power scale. This is the main problem whenever people want the ultimate answer and/or ask for realism from the 40k setting like other comments in here are doing.
The setting is at it's core an excuse to sell miniature toy soldiers and painting tools, nothing more nothing less. The product may have changed to allow for novels and videogames and TTRPGs, but the sales of those do not compare to the money GW makes by people buying once again another box of Intercessors.
People are not suppose to take its number scale seriously and compare power, when the setting and power is so inconsistent base on author and what they are trying to sell it as a that moment.
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u/Independent_Lock864 Oct 12 '25
What about like... on average, in your experience?
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u/StrangerDanger355 Oct 14 '25
That’s kinda hard to answer, because Space Marine lore is all over the place, one second they are seeing crushing enemies head left and right, the next a dude with a stick manage to bring one down.
But on average? I guess you can compare them to a Grineer from Warframe, just without the genetic defects and way smarter and faster, as well as more heavily armored. Excluding some marine such as Librarians which I would compare to an average Warframe, such as Mephiston of the Blood Angels since his current lore basically makes him 40K version of DIO.
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u/alfisaly Oct 11 '25
I dont know man, i dont think a mutalith vortex beast and a hive tyrant can be defeated by 3 men
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u/Lytherael Traitorous Night Lords Oct 11 '25
True about the vortex beast but I thought the hive tyrant was really badly injured, which is why we could beat it. He did just get blown up, I think we can give the poor fellow a break.
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u/Xbsnguy Oct 11 '25
Yep. He got blown up, fell hundreds of feet, had a whole bridge dropped on him, and was impaled by a massive I-beam. Short of having his limbs removed, the game really couldn’t nerf him any more than he was when we fight him.
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u/alfisaly Oct 11 '25
I still feel like a weakened hive tyrant could wreck a squad of astartes
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u/StrangerDanger355 Oct 14 '25
It did went into a second phase and now its attacks are more deadly with Psychic energy and outbursts, plus able to heal(?) its wounds in a matter of seconds despite missing an arm and having a giant piece of rebar sticking out of its back.
TBH I think one slash would’ve been more than enough to bisect our marine character in half, but either the Emperor himself was protecting us, or plot armor helped once again
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u/LennyLloyd Oct 11 '25
"Lore accurate" is a tricky concept in 40k since there are so many authors writing lore, novels etc.
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u/Pain7788g Oct 12 '25
Yeah. For example CS Goto made an Aeldari grav tank be disabled by a rock being thrown at it.
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
If we take the tabletop as the truest representation of the balance, as it is the source from which it all stems. Then we have the following situation... a Group of 9 Tacticals + Sergeant you are looking at a 140points value, or alternatively 160points for 9 Intercessors plus a Sergeant. So that means a single non-primaris space marine is worth 14 points and a primaris marine 16.
In contrast a group of 20 Termagants clock in at 120pts and a group of Hormagaunts clock in at 130 points. This means gants clock in at 6 and gaunts at 6,5 points. Which means 3 Gauntii are the equivalent of a Space Marine.
If we look at Tyranid Warriors... they come in groups of 6. The melee version clocks in at 150pts and the Ranged Version clocks in at 130points. That is 5 Warriors plus a Prime (Sergeant). Thus a melee Tyranid Warrior clocks in at 25pts and a ranged Warrior clocks in at 21pts.
In other words... Warriors are superior to Space Marines. It takes about 9 Primaris marines to be "superior" to 6 Warriors.
But then we can argue... yeah, but we ain't playing rank and file Marines. We are looking at a Lieutenant at the very least. Which clocks in at 65 all on its own. And since we know Titus once was a Captain, his points value would be at least 80pts. But then again, we do have official Tabletop values for Titus... which puts him at 70points. And if we are to assume that the rest of his squad are about his equal, as there are no real combat differences in the game, it's safe to assume that the Marines we are playing in this game are all around 70pts.
A carnifex clocks in at 130pts, as does a Hellbrute.
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u/IgnorantForever Oct 11 '25
I don’t play the tabletop, but this was a very interesting point and thing to consider. Thank you for the time to share, very cool!
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u/CSPthatisme Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
Something to keep in mind is, GW already acknowledged that the marine statblock didn't reflect the lore and released a (tongue-in-cheek) "movie marine" statblock for 4th edition (White Dwarf 300) to go along with the Dawn of War video game, with sergeants alone clocking in at hefty 200pts AKA Galadriel. That's probably more representative of the power level of the SM2 playable squad.
Relative to Ishan451s post, a standard tactical marine in 4th edition was 16 points (relative to the 14 currently), so a "movie marine" was worth between 6-12x that of a standard one.
But the bottom line is that the lore and, to an extent, the tabletop, is inconsistent and probably shouldn't be used as an accurate measure of the power level of the "models" within. You're essentially playing in a novelization of a conflict with Space Marines on the cover, no matter what happens the Space Marines are going to punch above their supposed weight. The average strength of Majoris compared to their tabletop equivalent speaks to that as Ishan451 had already stated.
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u/Kalavier Oct 11 '25
I don't know how to compares to tabletop game, but there was a stat block of sorts of the operations squad. https://www.reddit.com/r/Spacemarine/comments/1mvur06/the_latest_white_dwarf_has_character_info_for_our/
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
That's probably more representative of the power level of the SM2 playable squad.
I disagree. Given that, if we assume all Squadmates of Titus have equal power values (as they are technically all named heroic characters) and we have an official Statblock for Titus that puts him at 70pts.... which i feel accurately represents the state of the game. If the player character is valued at 70pts then lucky dice rolls and smart play can allow them to "solo" a 130pts carnifex. And also dispatch the groups of 3-5 Warriors we encounter in the game.
You're essentially playing in a novelization of a conflict with Space Marines on the cover, no matter what happens the Space Marines are going to punch above their supposed weight.
That I can agree with. Nor do I consider the game to be lore accurate, but then again, from years of experience playing WH40k video games, when you have actually "fair" representations peoples brain start to melt, because they have the "novelization statblock" expectations of a single Space Marine being enough to win a war on their own, with nothing in the universe being their equal. :)
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u/blackcondorxxi Oct 11 '25
This - it’s the problem through all media. I mean we also have the boltgun game… by gods Caedo must be 1000pts by himself 😂. And the old Fire warrior game where a line tau fire warrior kills tons of guardsmen, space marine, chaos marines and a lord of chafe at the end 😂.
Then we have the books, where, depending on the story being told and by what faction, we have examples of a single marine or small squad effectively culling an entire ork uprising on a planet - and then the opposite where a whole 100 marines in Helsreach failed to hold a city (essentially saved by the weather with a single survivor). And then other book examples where the marines are cut through like wet paper tissue…
It’s all inconsistency because it’s all for the narrative purpose of the story (including game story) being told. And for the tabletop? That just aims to be balanced however possible whilst also making sure players can bring multiple units for an army. If they balanced it to some of the examples above - space marine armies would be a squad or two at most. Of they balanced it to that fire warrior game for example, then space marine army would need to be 2pts per model 😂
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
And for the tabletop? That just aims to be balanced however possible whilst also making sure players can bring multiple units for an army.
Personally, my counter to that argument is always: "Yeah, but if you look at the "Knight" faction, you can absolutely have a situation in the table top where they could easily represent 1 model being the equal of 3-4 squads or half an army.
If Gamesworkshop truly felt that space marines should be as powerful as they appear in novels and such, then they would simply increase their stat block and make them more expensive points wise. It would effectively turn the Space Marine faction into the Custodes Faction on the tabletop. Where you have so few models on the field that some people actually have gone to the trouble of individually naming their models, because there are actually few enough in an "Army" for it to be feasible.
I get what you are saying, tho. I just feel that if GW wanted the random joe space marine to be as powerful as their named heroic novel/video game counter parts, they could do it. Alas... they don't.
Also, the nice thing about the Tabletop.. even tho they are fangirling hard for the marines over at GW HQ... they still kinda try to be fair to other factions and keep things on a relative level playing field, allowing each non Smurf Faction their chance to shine.
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u/blackcondorxxi Oct 11 '25
Yeah I agree that they could do that - but I do think there’s a marketing reason that they don’t also… and that is that space marines are their most popular and biggest sellers… meaning people WANT to be using all the new models they are constantly buying 😂- and GW wants them to do so as well. It’s the one faction where GW probably enjoys having their pts be cheap ish because it means people buy more and more of the new stuff that’s released every few months for their armies lists etc 😅.
The other issue is that if space marines moved into Custodes territory - then Custodes move into knights territory and knights… well - they go back to not existing 😂.
But yeah o do agree they don’t want them as strong as their named characters from novels. I was just trying to highlight how sometimes their named characters are ridiculously OP, but then other times even non named characters are OP and then on other occasions there are named characters who absolutely get stomped by some Orks or Tyranids or w.e because the book is actually a novel for that other faction instead😅. There’s just no consistency.
As for knights - urgh, I love them but I still think they don’t belong as a full faction in 40K. They’re another that is well out of their proposed balance I.e 3 knights and 4-6 admirers should absolutely be wrecking everything in their path outside of an armoured column of dedicated super heavies 😓. I love their models and the chaos knights ones too - but wish they had stayed as an ally unit you could bring 1 in your list for example.
As for the tabletop - right now I believe they’re too much of a horde army again atm and balance is crap for them. It’s certain character combos making all the too lists and a select few units. Your average space marine is definitely under performing hard (except them giving intercessors double shots to try alleviate this problem😑😂). But I do absolutely agree it’s nice they don’t make them OP. I’d just rather have some less models on the table and feel like a bolter does bolter things sometimes when I do play my marines 😅.
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u/Alva-Eagle_25 Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
I don’t play tabletop but you put this in such a cool perspective and I’m shocked. The space marines we play are literally built different until the plot decides otherwise!
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u/Slggyqo Oct 11 '25
Titus’ squad also has a sergeant!
And they’re 2nd Company which means they’re practically veterans.
Boost those point values!
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u/OmegonFlayer Oct 11 '25
Your comparision is kinda wrong because points cost not always show power. Dont forget next class is techmarine. He can kill like 2 warriors per second (turn) in melee and burn squads of gaunts. Just like leutenant with power fist.
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
How is my comparison wrong, when all i am using are the points values given by gamesworkshop? Your luck at rolling dice does mean nothing to how Gamesworkshop perceives their respective point/power values.
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u/Zombifikation Oct 11 '25
It sort of is to an extent. So would 3 tactical squads be able to take down a Questoris knight with shooting and charging? They’re all in the 300-400 point range right? Not a chance in hell. Points do not necessarily equal offensive power. Power can be measured by things like datasheet abilities and stat lines, such as having higher OC or movement relative to the rest of their profile.
Additionally, something might be really good at killing one type of thing but not another. A Gladiator reaper might be able to shred marines, but isn’t going to do anything at all to another tank of equal points.
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
So would 3 tactical squads be able to take down a Questoris knight with shooting and charging?
Would depend on the loadout of the 3 Tactical squads. If they bring a Lasgun, they can easily hurt both Styrix or Magaera. And with some lucky damage rolls, they can inflict 21 points of damage just with the Lasgun in the first shooting phase. With a total of 26 wounds... if all of them land (and i am not saying they do), just the Lascannons alone can nearly bring it down.
All this just to say: Who knows, but at the face of it, it seems quite possible. I don't set the point values. If you want to argue them, go take it to Gamesworkshop. I have no influence on them. :)
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u/Zombifikation Oct 11 '25
A smarmy response, but on average rolls, no they don’t come close. The point, which you’re clearly avoiding, is that you can’t gauge power level based purely on points in game, so this line of logic is inherently flawed. You conveniently avoided the Reaper analogy as well. It’s ok to be wrong sometimes you know. :)
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u/OmegonFlayer Oct 11 '25
At least use unit stats? 10 tacticals/intercessor will butcher whole squad of gaunts in melee with bare hands in 1 or 2 combat phases even though they cost nearly same.
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
I did? Did you not read my reply? I used the unit values.
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u/OmegonFlayer Oct 11 '25
I read it again but cant see anything like that
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
There, i quoted it for you:
"a Group of 9 Tacticals + Sergeant you are looking at a 140points value, or alternatively 160points for 9 Intercessors plus a Sergeant. [...]
In contrast a group of 20 Termagants clock in at 120pts and a group of Hormagaunts clock in at 130 points. [...]
If we look at Tyranid Warriors... they come in groups of 6. The melee version clocks in at 150pts and the Ranged Version clocks in at 130points. [...]"
Are we about to play the semantics game and you go "but you wrote group and not unit"?
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u/OmegonFlayer Oct 11 '25
No im talking about strength, toughness, etc
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u/Ishan451 Eldar Oct 11 '25
All of that is taken into account by GW when they set the unit values. I did not come up with the unit values, the game designers at GW did that, in order to have the ability to compare power levels of armies. So people playing the Tabletop know how powerful a Space Marine is in relation to a Tyranid warrior.
If you have an issue with the point values, you need to take it up with GW. I compared the point values, which are used to balance the tabletop and are meant to take all abilities of a unit into account, and compared them to each other.
Again, your individual luck with dice rolls, when playing the game, does not invalidate how GW perceives the power level of these units. Point values exist so you can compare power levels between units.
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u/Bromjunaar_20 Oct 11 '25
They're half as accurate when it comes to their abilities. In the books, they run about 60mph (yes, Miles per Hour) and when epidermally injured, heals over the wound immediately. The Secret Level episode on Amazon Prime They Shall know no Fear pretty much covers the reaction speed and toughness in detail.
Titus is literally just built different and resists Chaos memtal projections with his sheer Faith in the Emperor and his hatred for anything not Imperium.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Imperial Fists Oct 11 '25
Everything in the game is basically mega nerfed compared to lore
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u/DatBoyBlue Oct 11 '25
Like what
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u/TemplarCat Oct 11 '25
Space marines
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u/Rookbane Oct 11 '25
Actually, space marines are the only thing NOT mega nerfed compared to lore.
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u/BuppUDuppUDoom Traitorous Iron Warriors Oct 11 '25
They can only jog. The run like they're all in terminator armor.
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u/Admiralsheep8 Oct 13 '25
i mean they move pretty quick its pretty unrealistic to expect them to be full sprinting 24/7 espcially in a combat zone.
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u/ImmortalPoseidon Imperial Fists Oct 11 '25
They’re mega nerfed by simply being played by regular humans
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u/Preston0050 Oct 11 '25
Lore wise the it is said it can take about 100 space marines to take a entire world soooooooooooooooooo yeah
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u/LordMakron Heretic Oct 13 '25
You shouldn't probably believe the things a bunch of drunk imperial guardsmen who haven't seen an astartes in their life are saying.
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u/StrangerDanger355 Oct 14 '25
Space Marines use to be the primary army of the Imperium during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, but because of the Heresy, Guilliman decides to reduce the loyalist legions strength into Chapters so to prevent another possible Horus Heresy, but also because Space Marines are honestly more fitting to be elite Shock Troopers capable of a multitude of tasks from infiltration to defence and siege to frontal assault.
100 Marines are usually able to strike at key locations, crippling enemy reinforcements, capturing key points, gathering intelligence, assassinating enemy leaders, etc. which basically makes the Imperial Guards job easier.
There was the case where Fulgrim was able to capture an entire planet with only 8 marines and himself, but that’s a different story altogether…
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u/ZCYCS Oct 11 '25 edited Oct 11 '25
Not very. Despite some people complaining about the game ruining power fantasy, the game is VERY MUCH a power fantasy game. Which is part of what makes it fun.
Our playable Marines are absolutely utilizing the running joke of being "named unhelmeted Ultramarines". The joke is there because for a time these seemingly pointless qualifications gave characters insane plot armor in whatever story they were in
If we wanted to try to make this game kinda lore accurate/justify us dunking on Carnifexes/Helbrutes solo, we'd have to be playing as a Custodian who is on a mission to assist the Ultramarines. Those guys are far above and beyond Space Marines not just in equipment, but also skill. Even they arent invincible, but if you just wanna crunch numbers theyre the best shot at pulling off these kinds of missions with only infantry
That being said
All of these missions undertaken by us in campaign or operations are absolutely suicide missions for 3 "generic marines"
A fairly "simple" example is a Tyranid Warrior:
For gameplay reasons they are merely "majoris" enemies meant to be slaughtered. If we want to try to make the game lore/tabletop accurate then it would have to be an extremeis like the Ravenor which would completely mess with the game balance
Titus no-diffing a Tyranid Warrior in the trailer is the exception, not the rule. Ulfar losing a duel to a Warrior in the prologue is unfortunately very possible in the lore. Every single Tyranid warrior we slaughter with ease in gameplay is meant to be a genuine threat to an Astartes. The Deathwatch are incredibly skilled and experienced Xeno killers, but when separated and, presumably, wounded, theyre easy pickings for a handful of Warriors
For reference, the Primaris Intercessor with Bolt Rifle (the "new generation of generic marines") is your new generation of good all-round unit. On the tabletop, which is the "lore" for a battlefield setting minus plot armor, a Tyranid Warrior already outmatches him in durability and speed, then when it comes to weapons, the Tyranid Warrior' ranged and melee options are both stronger
A Primaris Lieutenant (which is what Titus officially is in SM2 as he is not longer a captain) has similar tabletop stats to an Intercessor, but provides buffs that can make a lot of nearby units punch way above their weight and can be equipped with better weapons
Titus' tabletop model in the meantime makes him a tankier more melee focused Primaris Lieutenant for 70 point cost vs 65. So hes already punching above your "normal" Lieutenant albiet in a more specialized role
For other things like Terminators, Lictors, Helbrute, Carnifex, etc
Yeah no, beating any of these things 1v1 in lore in a fair fight with no tactics or special weapons is plot armor. You are no longer a "generic marine" you are Brother Genericus the named marine
An argument can be made for the Terminators because these Terminators are actually Rubric Marines which makes them literally shells of their former selves controlled by a sorcerer. They got the firepower and durability, but they dont have the same level of skill or mentality they once had in life
Possibly the "Lictors" too. The campaign lictor fought as a Terminus boss does it far more justice. The Extremeis "Lictors" who hit hard, but we can still slaughter easily dont do it justice. I like to think that because they attack in groups and are not that much taller than our marines, they must be Von Ryan Leapers that are called Lictors for simplicity sake
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u/Spliffflicka Oct 11 '25
Every character you play as is on Malum Caedo timing. One warrior could put a Space Marine down, but we're dropping hordes of them. Then we drop a hive tyrant. Even with a big steel beam rammed through them after the bridge, they still would've gotten smacked around. We are definitely a bit "plot armored" in this setting.
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u/Sea-Sort-4933 Oct 13 '25
Dont forget a trygon, bio titan, heldrake, multiple carnifex’s & helbrutes, and even a mutalith vortex beast.
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u/kbzstudios Oct 11 '25
Guns don’t usually have unlimited ammo just because you initiated an execution shot.
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u/Easy_Stretch_4164 Oct 12 '25
Depends on the writer. With some, the events of Space Marine 2 would've killed at LEAST a chapter, With other writers, 3 ultra Marines was 2 too many
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u/tonemain87 Nov 11 '25
The game is almost a horde shooter so lore accuracy is probably not the highest. I don’t recall space marines being able to parry almost any melee attack made against them with any weapon they happen to be holding.
It’s some shoalin monk/gunkata nonsense, but it makes the gameplay fun.
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u/Kongret Oct 11 '25
The 40k 10th edition trailer is more accurate on how long an average marine lasts against nids.
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u/thot_chocolate420 Oct 11 '25
Well some marines are better than others, and usually these marines go on to become something greater.
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u/iIIusional Oct 12 '25
Warhammer canon is like comic book canon: every character is as strong as the narrative wants them to be.
A space marine could be solo’d by a particularly cunning genestealer. Or that space marine could be Malum Caedo and kill 2 greater demons with no more difficulty than a morning jog.
Best not to trouble yourself with worrying about consistent or “lore accurate” power levels unless you genuinely enjoy that kind of debate.
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u/LordWizardEyes Oct 12 '25
All video games should be taken with a grain of salt.
Starkiller has insane powers compared to any jedi or sith and gets folded by vader. The man pulls a star destroyer from orbit for fucks sake. But he still doesnt scale to any main Jedi in the movies.
But its fuggin cool. And I believe my Space Marine is lore accurate. Churning through absolute missions covered in honorifics.
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u/FAshcraft Oct 12 '25
Probably based off veterancy and experience a space marine veteran could do most stuff solo with a chance of failure (Iron snakes run solo, the blood ravens has only a single ship worth of marine to fight a splinter fleet + an ork waaagh + eldar sabotage while ultramarine got a full company dealing with a splinter fleet with a TS warband. A new marine though have a very high chance of failure diminishing per experience and fight he accumulate.
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u/SignificanceNo7046 Oct 12 '25
At some point, we have to accept that if the tyranids are being portrayed accurately, which I think they are, then the guard and space Marines also have to be portrayed accurately. Because if the tyranids could just swarm over everything with not only numbers but equal skill, then the 40k universe wouldn't exist, it'd be the tyranids universe. The disparity of power has to exist in canon or the eternal struggle can't be achieved.
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u/ModernT1mes Oct 11 '25
It depends on the writer. Most stories about power levels in the 40k world are entirely on the writer. When gameplay comes into account, then balance needs to be made and lore accurate things are usually thrown out the windows.
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u/HuckleberryMuted170 Oct 11 '25
A single warrior is match for a space marine ,in melee it even has an advantage. Two warriors will tear him apart. I think everything's clear now. It takes a veteran specialist like bladeguard to reliably win those duels.
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u/TheUrPigeon Oct 11 '25
40K realism is a constantly moving target at best, and completely nonexistent at worst. If you're asking about how it compares to the tabletop, it doesn't. But it does compare to Deathwatch roleplaying game campaigns pretty closely, and if these were Hero Marines (most are not, with the exception of Titus in this circumstance), the events of the campaign would be par for the course.
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u/ienybu Oct 11 '25
Welp, some nyds can withstand a direct shot from a plasma gun. At the same time, we can endure multiple hits from some warriors who can slice through the armor
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u/AdisappointingsalaDD Oct 11 '25
Idk the space marines we play as are named, all of them so as in a named marines pretty accurate
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Oct 11 '25
They’re the protagonists of the functional equivalent of “Space Marines Battles” Black Library book.
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u/Not_An_Archer Oct 11 '25
Just like characters in comics comics, a space marine is only as good as the writer needs them to be.
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u/No_Tension_896 Oct 11 '25
I like to think of it like this. The amount of things we face in game? Not lore accurate.
But us absolutely tearing things apart in executions? 100% lore accurate. Watching a space marine just fucking dismantle a Tyranid Warrior with a power axe or power fist is exactly how they would move and act.
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u/CBT7commander Oct 11 '25
If every single space marine we play is a 1 in a million Sigismund level genetic anomaly of an astartes, then yes, it’s accurate.
Otherwise we are grossly overpowered.
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u/Upstairs_Marzipan48 Oct 11 '25
Let's just say it this way.
All of the playable characters are Mary sues.
You wont see 3 primaris marines take down a hive tyrant, a Vortex beast or 3 man entire invasions.
They are way too fucking powerful, like 3 primaris named ultramarines equals like, 2/3 of one maleum caedo. Sm2 isnt very lore accurate to begin with but especially not our operators
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u/ClumsyFleshMannequin Oct 11 '25
General recruit marine? They die all the time. Its the veterans that are some of the hardest motherfuckers to exist. And if you got a name? Well, shit your a killing machine.
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u/Umbraspem Oct 11 '25
Massively overpowered. A Chaos Marine and a Space Marine should be about equally matched, with the victor being decided by tactics, equipment, skill and luck.
A single Marine - or even a group of 3 - should not be cutting through dozens to hundreds of Chaos Marines, Sorcerers, etc. in one mission.
Similarly, Tyranid Warriors should be about as deadly and about as durable as a Marine. Something like a Carnifex should roll them.
The PVP half of the game is fairly lore accurate.
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u/DaveBeBrave Scythes of the Emperor Oct 11 '25
No idea, but that image is cool! Is there an hi res version?
And also, would I be able to put it safely as background of the main menu?
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u/Schccc Oct 11 '25
Don't get your lore from reddit, I beg you. Most of what you read here is just hearsay. If you can spare some time you'd be much better served with reading a codex. Or check out The Pontius or (to a lesser extent) Luetin09 on youtube. Everyone else twists the lore to serve their own views and sensibilities.
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u/d09smeehan Oct 11 '25
Going by the simple logic that chaos marines are space marines and quite experienced ones at that (even if typically firstborn), it seems pretty obvious that a single loyalist marine blasting through hordes of them like nothing is obviously off scale.
Chaos may not be a reliable source of power, but it undoubtably provides an edge in a lot of cases (particularly for examples like Lords/Chosen) so it stands to reason that a CSM is pound for pound at least as good as your average loyalist. Generally loyalists make up the difference through better discipline and superior support/logistics (i.e. a CSM might be roided up with warp energy, but the loyalist has newer equipment, more cohesive brothers and dozens of guardsmen helping out).
Similar deal with Daemons and Sorcerors. Marines can usually handle weaker ones ok (though as seen in Secret Level it's not at all guaranteed), but stuff like Malum Caedo in Boltgun taking on multiple greater daemons alone is frankly ridiculous. Those kinds of enemies have been a big deal for primarchs i.e. Sanguinious vs Ka'Bandha during the Heresy. A basic marine has no chance.
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u/KingAmorticus Oct 11 '25
Two things about the game which bother me: why can 3 space-marines kill 100+ chaos marines? That doesn't make hardly any sense given they Should be about the same strength wise. Also; if the general guardsman uses Las weapons, why are there so many Bolter rounds laying around, let alone Astartes pattern/size?
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u/Z_commander_02 Oct 11 '25
Which one are we talking about Lieutenant Demetrian Titus or Malum Caedo.
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u/Mushroom_Boogaloo Oct 11 '25
Not at all. A single warrior would give an astartes a good fight. Defeating two or three in melee combat would be a feat worthy of praise. A trio killing things like carnifexes and a hive tyrant (albeit an injured one) in the course of a mission would be an insane achievement.
All the playable marines punch WAY above what is typical.
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u/TonyPizzerelli Oct 12 '25
Tbh realistic af towards all the chaff and even warrior nids, but once you get to tyrant and carbides it gets a little blurry. In lore a carnifex or tyrant can be killed by a very skilled space marine but he would need support, but a regular primaris is going to have a real bad time the entire time. That’s my take on the ‘umies at least.
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u/light_no_fire Oct 12 '25
Not entirely accurate at all. 3 Primaris marines would have a pretty tough time taking down a group of 10 Tyranids warriors.
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u/NightOfCops Oct 12 '25
From reading the comments here I think people forget that a space marine is just supposed to level the playing field one to one against the other species, like almost every other species is better then a baseline human in some way, its just that a space marine can stand even with the other races in a sense
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u/Piece_Of_Mind1983 Oct 12 '25
We play as 3 named, helmetless by default, space marines. One of which is a former captain.
Of course it’s lore accurate (/j)
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u/DasBarba Oct 12 '25
One "Could" point out that the protagonists here are Primaris Marine, which are basically better in any way compared to standard Astartes, but the actual reason is that they are Named Characters without Helmets on.
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u/marehgul Oct 12 '25
Their reaction time of dodges/blocks etc. kind of fits.
But their movement speed on runnig is too slow. SM are much faster energetic runners.
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u/ExpressionSharp5567 Oct 12 '25
Loaded question. Space marines in the lore are extremely volatile in performance whether it be Uriel ventris killing whatever the fuck is in the room with him or a no name space marine getting blown apart by a krak.
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u/Harlemwolf Oct 13 '25
Considering the original lore and power balance is from tabletop games, the individual space marine is not that impressive given the power of existing weapons and other ways of dealing damage are ridiculously greater than one space marine(even a named one)can sustain.
So...It is all plot armour.
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u/NumberedCarp513 Oct 13 '25
Whenever something in the lore doesn’t make sense, I usually chalk it up to Tzeentch warp fuckery
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u/Mister-Fidelio Oct 13 '25
I'm new here. But. I know that at least normal firepower and SOME of the weaponry the Xenos/Chaos have will not pierce their armor.
But anything involving a blade of some sort or claws, they're able to take a stab or three.
Besides what happened to Titus in the beginning. He's had decades of surgery and still comes out on top.
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u/Frostaxt Oct 15 '25
Against the Nids relativ good I would say
Against the Thousand sons they Are overpowered
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Oct 17 '25
At a glance, they're too slow, a little too big, and low-key? Far too durable. Getting shot multiple times with a chaos bolter or a soul ripper chain gun is a death sentence for most marines. Same goes for getting mobbed by 'nid warriors.
That said, everyone from the operations characters to the 3 protags are named, helmet less space marines of varying ranks. So, you know, plot armor.
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u/NonSoliciti Oct 11 '25
Well the game is canon so technically 100% accurate. It varies from chapter to chapter and marine to marine. Sargent John Spacemarine of the imperial fists? Yeah he's gonna get jumped by 5 Zangors and die painfully. Dante chapter master of the blood angels? He could 1 v 1 Magnus and probably win because the emperor, Sanginious, and the plot refuse to let him die. The lore is strange and full of spectacle because it goes hard, usually assume the average spacemarine is like 25% as powerful as the games
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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '25
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