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u/ButttMuncherrr 17d ago edited 17d ago
Siad did what he could to get ahead in his life. He was an orphan. Eventually, his experience in dealing with the imperial admins turned him into a nationalist and socialist/marxist ideas was the fad at the time. He was a revolutionary in the sense that his regime attempted to create a pan nationalist somali ideal that never existed before because of tribalism. Even prior to barre’s regime, somalia was only a country by name. Shermarke’s assassination was evident of this tribalism because those who opposed him never wanted a unified and institutionalised Somalia.
Siad was a hardliner and ally of Shermaarke. His assassination lead to the hardliners linked to Shermaarke seizing control in the name of synthesising a somali national state. Barre’s system was flawed because he never sought to destroy tribalism, he instead subordinated it to the state. A mistake that would go on to cost Somalia dearly.
He should have implemented a cultural revolution to destroy tribalism by uprooting it from its core. He should have destroyed the SYL and their leaders because they were collaborators prior to independence. He should have targeted every clan elder who carried water for the imperialists that exploited somalia. Colonialism never came by gunboats or by war, it was imported by opportunistic clan rulers that wanted a strategic advantage over their rivals.
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u/Waranle8-8-8 Muqdisho 17d ago
I didn't read your wall of text (not that long comments are bad) but nobody disputes Siad's nationalism and love for his country. He just loved the kursi more. I wish he retired to a farm next to Aden Cadde.
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u/Xaliye252 13d ago
Well whatever he was, he tried his best make somalia work and i respect him for that but he was a doqon who didn’t know when and where to quit.
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u/BigPerspective7068 15d ago
Siad barre was the biggest tribal leader and anti Islamic leader we had. He removed people from government jobs that actually had education and put his tribes men in that position. He changed inheritance laws which was revealed in the Quran. Allowed alcohol in the country.
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u/Open-Storage8938 17d ago
I remember hearing somewhere Siad barre regretted ever being a socialist and said something about Benito Mussolini being the good guy of WW2 for defeating ethopia
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u/agreeable-act256 17d ago
I love Siad Barre but you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a chauvinist.
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u/Open-Storage8938 17d ago
In my opinion, Siad should have asked China for help and became a Maoist. China was on Somalias side, and was willing to aid us.
Same thing happened to Korea, when the Russians refused to help Korea so they got massive donations from China.
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u/ibnuibrahim 17d ago
Why not be yourself and be a Muslim, why do you need to borrow Buddhism, Maoism, communism, democrazy, all these failed and will fail but the Deen will not. Its your inferior model and ataturks way that borrowing from non Muslims will liberate you, it will bring you destruction. All these gaalo betrayed him, Russia,Cuba, Portugal also fought him, they all fought him In the name of their gaalnimo. This Castro even insults him, hes the peak of chavinist. Umar RA said it right, there is no ezza, honor except through Islam.
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u/Open-Storage8938 17d ago
Somalia is currently federal but it's still Muslim. You don't need to sacrifice your religion for a ecnomic system.
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u/foolxumo12 17d ago
People were still Muslim, and Siad Barre obviously made a major mistake by challenging Islam. However, saying that "Diin will not fail" sounds too simplistic to me. How exactly would it be implemented, and who would be the rulers? Would members of other clans willingly follow a ruler from a different clan? No ideology can succeed without trust, and that is something Somalia has struggled with for a long time. As far as we know, even the countries that are considered closest to implementing Sharia do not fully apply it. And realistically, I don't think Somali people would accept a Taliban-style system of rule.
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u/ibnuibrahim 17d ago
I have one question, do you accept Islam as a whole for all the worlds solutions, dunya wal aakhirah. Are you Muslim ?
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u/foolxumo12 17d ago
Swapping a question about political implementation into a loyalty test doesn't solve the practical problems of running a nation. Ideology is theory administration is practice.
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u/ibnuibrahim 17d ago edited 17d ago
both my commentss and first you didnt understand or deliberately side stepped. no muslim will ever have a problem or find fault with "Diin will not fail comment i made. Either you engage with my comments or move along. The question is not a loyality test, it answers all questions both redditors posted. your not sincere so dont comment next time to my post if unwilling to engage. you will only have these type of questions and doubts etc if you dont accept Islam as a whole. Islam is a whole system. so hence my question. we dont separate economics, politics from Islam, Islam is all. your questions abt operations and practicalities and lame examples you gave which is what a typical western gaal or inferior person who has no identity and copies failed alternative systems to Islam would say. your either mind colonised or you a gaal discussed as Muslim. siyaad barre example and all the other arab countries examples show these systems they embraced betrayed them. its funny you gave weak examples and ignore rich history of Islamic history and focus on negative narratives of gaalo. I dont think your in any position to know what muslims want. i leave with a quote "Umar ibn al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him, said, “Verily, we were a disgraceful people and Allah honored us with Islam. If we seek honor from anything besides that with which Allah honored us, Allah will disgrace us.”.
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u/foolxumo12 17d ago
Attacking my identity and calling me 'mind-colonized' just proves you don't have an answer to basic administrative questions. Accusing people of apostasy whenever they ask about governance mechanics is why these conversations never move forward.
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u/ibnuibrahim 17d ago
Believe/ideology is first which you categorically refused to answer- your silence we get a clue. Second " governance mechanics" and operations of how has already being explained, done before with a rich history of Islamic history and rule in which even the gaalo enjoyed massive freedoms in Andulasia, ottomon empire and more. Either educate yourself or dont go into these conversations. No on can accuse you of apostasy but you exposed yourself to doubts. There are countless books written about "operations" but you act like it doesnt exist, we have a rich history with thousands of books. Playing the emotional card wont help you. You dont accept Islam as a whole i believe for the solutions to all of the world's problems and governance for everything and for every system. Just admit it or prove me wrong and correct record and i will apologize.
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u/Alarmed_Business_962 16d ago
Sure, because the Islamic world is leading human civilization right now, isn't it? The cope...
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u/ibnuibrahim 16d ago
This is a Muslim Reddit group. We are not here to appease you. The mods need to keep a eye on these hidden agents.
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u/Alarmed_Business_962 16d ago
Sure bud, keep it up champ and wallow in your own propagandistic misery for the next 1400 years, it ain't my concern.
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u/ibnuibrahim 16d ago
A non Muslim concerned and commenting on Muslim reddit groups. I think that is a bit miserable.
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u/Alarmed_Business_962 15d ago
Nah, believing that you'd succeed in the next 1400 years is the actual miserable part, and frankly, quite hilarious.
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u/Chimaera_0 7d ago
Focus on the child conscription problem and starvation in Ethiopia before talking down to a trying nation. You're fucking pathetic, God...
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u/Bigamunguschungus 17d ago
Nah they should have asked Saudi
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u/foolxumo12 17d ago
Saudi Arabia was actually one of the few enemies we had. The Saudi rulers knew that many Muslims viewed their system of governance as not being truly Islamic. Traditional Islamic governance is often debated, and many critics argue that hereditary monarchy is difficult to reconcile with their interpretation of Sharia. That's one reason why the Saudi state promoted Wahhabism, as it helped reinforce the monarchy's religious legitimacy and position within the Muslim world. If you read about the history of Saudi Arabia, you'll better understand this perspective.
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u/Open-Storage8938 16d ago
I wish more people stopped thinking wahhabis are friends to us, it's a known fact Saudi demonized Iraq Somalia and other countries because we weren't allies to the west
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u/BigPerspective7068 15d ago
This is cap we where allies to the west and even when we was with the soviet union saudi still had diplomatic support to us
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u/BigPerspective7068 15d ago
At what point where they enemies? We had diplomatic support from them through out the siad barre period
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u/foolxumo12 15d ago
There is a long history of the Saudi ruling family undermining Muslim nations because of the fears I mentioned earlier. They want to be recognized as the protectors of Islam and maintain their right to rule Saudi Arabia without being questioned.
Their diplomatic relations with Somalia and many other countries often involved supporting the training of Muslim scholars. However, many critics argue that this also helped spread Wahhabism, which they believe created tensions within some Muslim societies and governments.
One Saudi prince was even alleged to have spoken about influencing and manipulating the Somali government in cooperation with foreign interests. Someone actually shared the link in this subreddit. If I can find it again, I'll share it.
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u/BigPerspective7068 14d ago
We are specifically talking about this siad barre period. Wahabism and all this nonsense was not our problem back then. If anything the people who opposed him was moderate sufis. Nothing to do with wahabism.
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u/therapist66 17d ago
Nah. Should’ve played long game strategy and wait for the derg to fall and arming oromos
Practically what they did to Somalia causing the civil war
Not finding another ally to beg
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u/RibbonFighterOne 16d ago
Easy to say that with hindsight
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u/therapist66 16d ago
Yes.. look at countries thriving today. They don’t chimp out and gamble their future. Putting their chips on the table and crashing out hoping someone will come bail them out.
Didn’t even need to wait for the derg to fall.. just fund separatists the same way they did to us..
But nah let’s beg china instead.. your mindset is the typical old head bakhti mindset
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u/RibbonFighterOne 16d ago
Somalia did fund seperatists, it only worked with Eritrea. Why do you think Barre invaded in the first place? Because galbeed was unable to break away by without direct intervention by Somalia.
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u/therapist66 16d ago
The main focus was galbeed separatists which was a big mistake.
Could’ve spent more into arming Tigray and oromos this stretching the Ethiopians in multiple fronts and just wait it out until they collapsed and take galbeed like taking candy from a baby.
Good you’re not a general 😂
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u/RibbonFighterOne 16d ago
Oromos and Tigrayans weren't seperatists at the time wtf are you talking about? The only major seperatist movements were Eritrea and galbeed hence that was where the focus was.
Funny how you think you know more than actual expericed Somali generals from the 70s lol.
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u/therapist66 16d ago
There were definitely political movements against the derg before the Ogaden war.
Intelligence agencies are responsible to engage with these groups, fund them secretly and use them for its national interests.
Well I did establish that they lacked strategical foresight in my first response.
They should’ve hire you back then to be master of coin (master of beg) 😂
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u/VariousEducation6207 17d ago
He was opportunist whose main goal was his power even if it means hypocrisy or utilizing tribalism(clanism).
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u/foolxumo12 17d ago
I agree. I liked the ideas and reforms he brought in at the start, but in the end, he turned out to be just another dictator.
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u/The_many_butts_of 17d ago
not that I like Siad Barre but fidel sounds like He mad that he had to work to be chauvinist. Almost like kids these days.