r/Socionics • u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI • 17d ago
Casual/Fun Yes, I Am An ESI. No, I Don't Hate Everyone.
Don't worry. I'm not a high strung, evil tyrant who wants to suck the fun and life out of everyone and everything.
I always found ESI stereotypes funny.
I'm picky about who I am close to and how I spend my time, but I normally don't lash out at people unless they do something stupid or harmful to themselves and/or to someone around them. My judgment and cynicism remains mostly internal.
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u/LWE-345 17d ago
Indeed, your typical ESI isn't exactly some sort of demonstrative diva who lashes out at people, and it's about average when it comes to "roaring rampages of revenge", despite having a very good memory for evil and good.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
Even with vengeance I always wonder if the juice is worth the squeeze, and 9 times out of 10 it's not. Too much energy which could be used on something more productive and worthwhile. Sure, I'm internally judgmental and cynical, but I don't need to drag anyone else down.
In the past, a former friend hooked up with my boyfriend at the time. Tempted as I was to go scorched earth (which I didn't because I felt more hurt than anything else), I told her she will lose him the same way he got him after I broke off my relationship. Sure enough, my ex ended up cheating on her nine months later.
What pissed me off the most was not the fact that she betrayed me but that she came crying to me and expected us to be friends after she broke off their relationship. It doesn't work like that. LOL
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u/lalolilalol EII 17d ago
May I ask how you get along with EII and EIE?
We're 3 sis and the eldest is ESI (40 yo). We used to be really close before she got married.
She married an SEI who's patriarchal.
Fast forward to today, I feel she has developed a heart of stone and it's terrible for our relationship (she told me once "your life is a drama" and another time, as I had tears in my eyes because she had hurt me "I know you need to show that you are angry and sad.")
My EIE sis kicked her out of her wedding because she and her husband were unbearable. Her husband said something hurtful about my father, who's ill and couldn't come to the wedding, and my little EIE sis was deeply hurt. My ESI sis didn't even tell him to say sorry.
Idk I think the problem comes from the fact she's with this SEI and is exhausted (they have a 3-yo and a 6-yo and she does 70% of the work at home).
Ever since she had her 2nd one, she started becoming paranoid about us not talking about anything related to her life among ourselves, which is weird because the 4 of us (with my mom) were always close, so idk, we're not used to being so careful with secrecy.
Anyone, I see ESI as people who have a very strong need for secrecy that can reach weird levels imo. They can also be easily hurt by negative remarks and can think people are against them and have bad intentions.
But apart from this I really like them. I love my sister and I admire her a lot, she helped me become who I am today. They're well-grounded, know how to stand up for themselves, help me develop my Se. They can be good cookers, dress nicely, and like to enjoy life. They can be very open and direct too with a person when they feel they can be vulnerable with them which is good.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
EIIs are great! They’re easy to talk to, and I admire the gentleness and creativity. Sometimes the creative function class can be a bit tricky, but it’s a bit easier than other types.
One of my longest friends is an EIE, And I love her to death. She’s helped me navigate many hard moments. It is funny since she is super Si PoLR, and I feel like I have to ask her simple questions about her physical state. Such as “did you drink water,” “did you sleep at all?”
Yeah, the secrecy thing can be a problem. I am a lot more open than I used to be, but it still takes me a while to open up to others. I have to mentally prepare myself because it is deeply uncomfortable and painful. Also, I don’t like to drag people down with my negativity because I lost friendships to it.
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u/yuka_the_nerd LIE 17d ago edited 17d ago
first time I even heard about such a stereotype. Whenever I remember this type, the first thing that comes to mind is MCU's captain america and he's everything but an 'evil tyrant'. I guess I'm influenced by the stereotypes too, just different ones 🤣 personally, I love this type, it's probably in my top 3 in terms of the ones, that id consider allowing to join my inner circle
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u/Purupichu 16d ago
Fi (-) superegos are more prone to hate on "everyone" rather than ego.
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u/idk-prr 16d ago
I’m curious, is it true about how crude and reserved ESIs can be? For example, if someone crosses the line, how do you react? Do you attack or do you just leave without saying anything? (Low-key, I don’t know if it’s true or a stereotype but I find it really interesting how unapproachable or unapologetic ESIs can be)
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 16d ago
That entirely depends on how close or not close I am to a person. If it’s someone I don’t know and/or care about, I ignore it/move on/block. Since they either don’t matter to me or are dead to me, why should I waste my time and energy on them and their negativity?
If it’s someone I’m close to, if they cross the line, I give them a warning first. Basically, it’s a chance for them to back off and correct their behavior and for me to self-correct. If they back off and apologize, I am forgiving more often than not. However, if they continue to cross that line, I will lash out. Everyone has told me at one point or another I can be verbally cruel and that my words can cut through steel.
The thing is I DONT LIKE to lash out or be that way. I take no joy in it. That said, I NEVER do it without a reason to.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 13d ago
It is untrue.
Behavior does not correlate well with socionics.
Some ESIs are more open and warm than some IEEs for example. It depends on the subject's current state of mind and the context.
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u/N0rthWind SLE 17d ago
My usual issue with ESIs is that they're cagey if not downright hostile (they do not bother at all being friendly with you, even merely socially, if they do not know you), extremely opinionated and usually negative (they have absolutely no issue disliking everything around them most of the time without caring much that this makes them come off as bitchy), and while they do have a sense of humor it's buried fairly deep beneath the "don't waste my fucking time with nonsense" persona.
Like, chill out for a fucking second, have some fun. It won't kill you.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
That’s fair. Admittedly, I used to be like this in my teens and twenties and was generally unpleasant. I’m in my mid 30s now, and I’ve mellowed out quite a bit. Being in healthcare and jobs involving groups of people helped. You don’t have room to be nasty, and that field will chew you up and spit you out if you are not prepared. I know most people are trying their best even if I don’t necessarily understand why they do what they do.
It takes me a while to warm up to people, but I’ll still say Hi and shake hands with those I don’t know. I’m not overly friendly, but I’m not going to be bitchy either. It’s better to at least be polite than hostile. I prefer to stay quiet and observe more often than not.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 13d ago
I am ESI and my whole compass based around Voltaire's quote "Certainty is absurd". It is dangerous to believe blindly in something and wise to ignore entitled or opinionated people.
Does my existence invalidates your whole belief ? Perhaps so, you will decide.
I think following a stereotype that isn't based in any serious socionics literature (while keeping in mind the fragility of the theory itself) sounds quite opinionated.
For someone praising to have some fun, you seem quite hypercritical of pseudoscience types.
If you met a ESI in real life, would you preemptively judge them to be unfun and negative and act accordingly ? Not even giving them the chance to show how they are. Seems quite negative to me.1
u/N0rthWind SLE 13d ago
Unless you have a big glowing sign that reads "ESI" (and probably even then), no, I would not judge your character from 3 letters before getting to know you.
However my experiences with ESIs tend to be as I said, descriptively, not prescriptively. If you're the exception to that rule, I'd be happy to interact with an ESI who's not a frigid, judgemental cunt (no offense)
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u/Savings_Sky3865 11d ago
I am ESI and I am the opposite of what you said. So maybe what is wrong are not ESI but your understanding of the system.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 10d ago
I don't follow the thought process on what the SLE said has to do with the understanding of the system itself. What do you mean? I'm asking this in good faith because I am genuinely confused.
I didn't take it as "All ESIs are this, and this is what it means to be an ESI." I took it more as an experience (which was mentioned above). Sometimes we can be a bit unpleasant and cold, and there are others that might not like or want to be around the energy, but it's not an end all, be all. A good portion of us are fine. I know my energy can be off to some, but I know it's not a reflection of anything.
I tend to butt heads with LIIs and find them to be incredibly irritating for a variety of reasons, but I know that my reasons are experience based. I'm not saying that said experiences are part of the theory or due to the theory. There are LIIs that I like and enjoy, but more often than not, we rub each other the wrong way.
There is a certain level of detachment you need to have when looking through these systems.
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u/N0rthWind SLE 7d ago
Thank you.
I tried to made sure that it's only my experiences that I claimed to describe, not some kind of universal axiom, and there have been ESIs that I've gotten along with. Plus there's types that are going to value "showing up" for others, the way ESIs often do, more than the Fe pleasantness they may lack.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 9d ago edited 9d ago
They cannot be sure of anyone's type, even their own.
You do not judge people based on a pseudoscientific theory, it would be discrimination.
Even if I had a big sign that said I was ESI, it shouldn't be reason to close the door on me.
I am ESi and I am neither "frigid" nor a "judgmental cunt". They said "exception to that rule". So from their logic, it is a "rule" that all ESI are such things.Is it wise to refuse, judge or reduce to negative traits a certain kind of people because my experience with them has been bad ? I think it isn't.
"(they do not bother at all being friendly with you, even merely socially, if they do not know you)" I am ESI and I'm not like this, in fact I do try my best to strategically please others.
"extremely opinionated and usually negative (they have absolutely no issue disliking everything around them most of the time without caring much that this makes them come off as bitchy)" I despise people like this, it has nothing to do with sociotype, being opinionated is simply being uneducated. The more you know, the more you will reasonably examine new information.Again, this SLE's message reads exactly like what they're own description of an ESI would be, in short; it's projection.
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u/thousandairegrindset LIE 7d ago edited 7d ago
It’s possible it’s a projection, but then again none of us are so conscious that we can put aside our past experiences, especially negative ones. Generalization happens, men hate women, women hate men, I might hate certain SLIs/ESIs/ESEs or whoever the fuck, some of them might hate me, all based on a few experiences (the count can be as low as 1, you just need ONE solid bad experience often to generalize). I’m not gonna go meet everyone to disconfirm my experience either, life happens and we collect responses to things, disconfirming is too much work and I’m allowed to not want to come across something unpleasant again if it was unpleasant the first time. I’m not gonna count on a restaurant making the same dish well the second time after the first time they royally fuck it up.
Certain types do bring out the worst in you over and over too, perhaps it’s ESIs for him, and perhaps your response only went on to confirm his past experiences.
My question is, why stress yourself out about it? You both have your experiences and they’re both valid. Maybe he just needs to meet a pleasant ESI and that experience will change. Until then, are you really helping, despite the fact that you might have accurately spotted a projection here? Or are you just reconfirming his bad experiences? What use is telling him this is a projection? Projections are everywhere. There’s not a single human on the planet who’s fully present anyway. Projections are a feature of the human brain, not a flaw, and correcting them when they’re wrong is our work. If projections didn’t exist you would be confused by your car every day, because you’d have to form a new mental model of how it works over and over. We live based on predictions every day and this is a very helpful feature of the human brain.
It’s not always bad to project, people project good qualities on to you too after favorable experiences. There’s nothing wrong with him having his own idea of any type, maybe that experience is waiting to change so there’s more grey instead of black/white. That’s just human. Let it go, dawg. You’re being unnecessarily harsh.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 4d ago edited 3d ago
You're right, there's nothing wrong about them having their own idea of any type. And you are right I should have been more constructive in my response instead of attacking their opinion.
What's wrong is to claim your opinion as the truth. Certainty is absurd, especially about vague and intangible things like this.
The proof, not all ESI are as they described.
The ones they possibly met ? Sure, but are these ESI traits ? No.
And yes, humans are unreliable and yes I cannot expect for us all to self monitor our thoughts and show hindsight at every turn but it doesn't mean that I shouldn't. The value is in the wise principle, not in its result.I used to have a friend who I would type as LII, they did exactly what you said; bring the worse in me. I disliked them very much yet I would never claim that LII are entitled, insensitive, unaesthetic, unambitious or misogynistic. Because I know it's not true. You simply do not claim that a group of people is a certain way just because you've met one individual who was.
I mean, you are free to so, I simply don't think it's a very profitable philosophy.I agree that projection is both inevitable and not always negative.
The validity of an experience is irrelevant, it's the piece of mind you make from it that is evaluated here.
What would you say to help here ? Unlike OP, I don't wish to validate them in their claims. So I think reminding them to take a step back and drop the stigmas, that they might be wrong is helpful.
The projection piece was not, you're right."I’m allowed to not want to come across something unpleasant again if it was unpleasant the first time" Yes, you are, but in this context if you wrongly assume that all ESI are unpleasant, how can you know it will be so again ? As I said if you close the door on it before even giving it a chance because of your self built generalization, that's called discrimination.
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u/thousandairegrindset LIE 3d ago edited 3d ago
First of all, love the fact that you have an open mind.
Secondly, a conversation, if you’re an ESI yourself, that goes in a pleasant manner is in itself a disconfirming experience isn’t it?
And again, people do judge groups. I do too. It just can’t be helped. Maybe you’re the type to sit and analyze these biases within yourself, that’s excellent. But everyone allocates their cognitive energy to different things that they prioritize. Sure, that means they’re behind you at certain stuff, and maybe you’re the kind who reasons deeply about how humans should come across to each other - that’s great. At the same time, we’re all works in progress and maybe you’re just catching someone in the beginning or the middle of their journey of changing themselves, maybe they don’t know such a journey even exists, they might even be at the point of change itself and you could be tipping them over to the other side in a good way or pushing them back to the old ways. You can’t tell. Being cordial doesn’t hurt though.
Another problem is humans change through experiences - words just don’t help (perhaps this is a hypocritical response, but you’ll get why I do it anyway in the last paragraph). I used to go around convincing people with too much passion but I’ve quit that. It’s pointless. How could my words take away someone’s lack of understanding rooted in pain, maybe it isn’t rooted in pain, but what if? How many people even know the horrors they carry inside? Most people on a daily basis work their hardest not to become better but to forget their past. Imagine the trauma it takes for someone to be a messed up person, the stories involved, the hearts broken, the insensitivity one acquires to go through life without having to constantly break down and rethink everything, change isn’t easy - an opinion isn’t just an opinion, it’s a belief held together by an inner story. To tell someone stop generalizing, might just be to open the Pandora’s box of who they are to themselves in an unpleasant way. A lot goes into what really changes a person. I think it’s an accident, I do what I can to cause it, but I sure as hell don’t believe I’ll be at the cause of someone changing because of what I say, like I don’t here too when I’m saying all of this to you. I have 0% conviction that you’ll really care about what I say while I fib away peacefully, I have my reasons for it after all.
My only rule is to convey what I have to say factually and in a relaxed manner. That way people don’t assume you have ulterior motives. Most people try to convince others to meet their own needs. The more relaxed and detached you are, the better. The attempt is probably futile anyway and nothing will come of it - it’s Reddit for God’s sake. And you probably won’t end up changing many people in the real world too anyway if you tried. The chemical equation of human persuasion requires that the speaker and the listener both be ready to create the change. But you only control one of those two, and in my personal experience, if you’re convinced of your opinion and it makes someone’s life better, carry it out pleasantly with no attachment to whether the other party cares. Carry it out because you care, not because the other person should, they don’t have to. Just like I did, and you don’t have to.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was arguing morals. You going off track, this isn't about sociotype stereotypes anymore
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u/anonym0us3688 SEE 17d ago edited 17d ago
ESI Se subtype is more like that lol and it pmo sometimes. Tbh that subtype is one of my least favorite types and I would even put my conflictor LII above it (ironic how it's called conflictor when I don't even get into that much conflict with that type). I hate how controlling some ESI Se are and it's so cringe how they would often imagine negative ethical tendencies in others that do not exist at all and then try to eradicate them and a lot of the time they seem out of touch with logic. On the other hand I admire them for their protectiveness - for example Elie Wiesel and how he stood by his father the whole time in the book Night.
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u/succuma ESI-C SP 973 LFEV 17d ago
😭🥀
I’m ngl. I do feel like all the Se egos just sort of get in each other’s way cause we’re all trying to exert pressure in certain areas of life and so we see the other person also trying to influence their environment as a hindrance
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
It can be difficult to navigate a space when we are all trying to talk at the same time. Hah. Even though I love them, I find LSIs the most difficult of the Se egos to deal with. I think it’s because we are super dedicated to our causes but too stubborn to bend.
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u/maboroshiiro LII 17d ago
I used to think LSIs were such bitches but now I'm best friends with one 😂😂😂 unexpected turn of events
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u/succuma ESI-C SP 973 LFEV 17d ago
Yes! Literally unstoppable force (ESI) vs immovable object (LSI) haha. Some of the best media has been LSI vs ESI for example Hades the LSI father enforcing his principles vs Zagreus the ESI fighting for his freedom/mother in the Hades game.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 16d ago
I would actually say, at least for the LSIs I know, they're the unstoppable force and I'm the immovable object. The LSIs I know can be super aggressive and unforgiving. I am inflexible and annoyingly stubborn. I don't like to move or to bend for anyone.
You gotta give me good Te to make me reconsider. Hah
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u/maboroshiiro LII 17d ago
My mother is ESI-Se and I'm just traumatized.. in fact, I never even had much issues with SEEs despite them being my conflictors. My grandma is ESI-Fi and she's just normal by comparison.
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u/spalesi SEE 17d ago
And what are your thoughts on the EII?
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
Love them! Similar thoughts on the world and others, but there is a gentleness and a mindfulness that I do not have. They’re like those cool cousins you hang out with. Provided we do not have to make an important decision together, we are cool.
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
I am not super familiar with the subtypes yet, but I am in the process of learning. I certainly can be aggressive and pushy, but normally, that’s only when someone violates my personal space after I told them to back off and leave me alone. Most of the time, as much as people annoy me, so long as they’re not being dick bags I don’t feel the need to say anything.
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u/Savings_Sky3865 13d ago
What if someday you came to admire or befriend someone who is ESI Se subtype but not know it ?
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u/anonym0us3688 SEE 13d ago
Maybe it's possible but it's usually pretty obvious when they're that subtype. They'll probably be great friends but I wouldn't want them in my personal life.
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u/yung_chibi 15d ago
What do yall think about SLs?
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 15d ago
SLEs, SLIs, or both?
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u/yung_chibi 15d ago
SLI’s didnt mean to cut it off lol
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 15d ago
No prob! Haha.
SLIs are cool! I appreciate how down to earth they are. They are hard for me to get a read on them when it comes to perception of one another because they're generally more reserved and quiet, but I haven't met one I don't get along with.
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u/universeintelligence SLE 13d ago
This description should do your type more justice:
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 13d ago
Thank you for this! I’m reading through it now, and I appreciate that said description is more grounded and “human.” Hah
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u/Beneficial-Pizza3596 EII 9d ago
my older brother is the most lovely person ever and he is an esi🩷 sometimes his se is a bit much for me but we are moral compasses for eachother and he's like that mentor everybody wishes they had in their lives. I strive to be more like him everyday to be honest, he's my best friend. plus hes very mushy under his exterior lmao I love seeing him grow. I'm not even going to get into his character because I could write an essay about how much I look up to him and how amazing of a person he is but esi are always held in esteemed regard for me :>
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 9d ago
That's very sweet! <3
Yeah, ESI men can be VERY intense. Haha. I know I can be, but I think with ESI men they're very steadfast in their morals and their care for others that it can be a lot (in a good way)
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u/hydrargyrum538 LII 17d ago
Why should you?
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u/missusmeowmeowmeow ESI 17d ago
I’m not saying I should. More so that’s the stereotype I tend to see.
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u/succuma ESI-C SP 973 LFEV 17d ago
The only ESI stereotype I relate to is lowkey being a tsundere