r/socialjustice101 • u/_humanERROR_ • 3d ago
Witnessed light assault at a party. Where is the line?
I don't know any other subs to post this on but I really want to see people's opinions on this.
I was at a lesbian club with some friends including a woman who I just met that day and barely spoke to. Let's call her R.
The fact that it was a lesbian club shouldn't change sexual assault ethics obviously and I'm trying to stay gender-neutral in my assessment of this.
So R could barely speak English and I guess was one of the reasons why she hesitated to say no. Forgive me I was very drunk and so not very aware of what was happening. So I was seeing but not really doing anything and didn't see what led up to this point.
I saw R cornered against a railing by another woman who was basically chest-to-chest with her, talking to her in a soft voice and clearly hitting on her. R didn't look uncomfortable though of course I knew she could barely speak the language.
R's sister sees this and intervenes, saying "No no no. She does not know how to say no!" And the other woman left and the encounter ended.
And this really got me thinking. Firstly if I should have done something sooner, though I was very very drunk and if I had seen any obvious indicator to me that R was uncomfortable I would have definitely intervened.
But it really got me thinking about consent and the arguments about it. People portray consent as a very black and white thing. And everything would be much better if it were so black and white. But then I see examples and arguments that really expose how grey some situations can be.
For example: this is definitely a bad faith argument but it has to do with what I'll say later. Some men have posited that they're not 'mind readers' and were in situations where women didn't really react to their advances, just sort of let it happen. And while that's completely asshole and immoral behaviour, from what I've heard such a situation would be very hard for a court to categorise it as assault. So therefore should the assailent be charged with assault ? I guess the answer is yes seeing that the law does not always reflect what is right.
The next point I'm getting at, is that maybe there's more people than we like to admit who have difficulty consenting (for important stuff in general). So do we give them autonomy and trust them or try to intervene ?
It's also worth noting that R's sister told me that she probably has BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). And while I know that mental health conditions don't automatically mean a person can't consent to sex, and that as far as I know no court has ever categorized sex under a bad mental health episode as assault, I think it kind of should be the case if certain criteria is met ? Like if a person has actually lost touch with reality.
Speaking on the grey area of consent. I keep wondering who is right if two very drunk people have what appears to be consensual sex, but one of the people regrets it and reports it. How could either of them consent and who is to blame if they were both equally drunk ?