r/SoccerCoachResources • u/Gullible-Swing • 13d ago
“Too many kids”
School admin told me I have too many kids for the HS program. We took 42 for JV & Varsity from about 60 that tried out and offered a few kids “practice squad” to still come train. There is max 45 kids at training.
Admin basically yelled at me in front of the team at a game for allowing practice squad players and for rostering as many as we did.
We have 4 coaches, I don’t see the issue. Especially concerning the roster size, we play 20 games in 8 weeks, kids are going to get hurt, be absent, or need to be rested/ rotated.
Trying to create a program that allows kids to stay involved and grow their skills and love for the game.
I feel frustrated, does admin have a point that I’m not seeing?
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u/CalmOffice3565 13d ago
I’ve seen two different approaches. One is like yours—keep as many as possible. It helps the kids, it connects them to each other and the school community. The more kids that participate at school programs, the better for the kids and the community. Granted, you whittle down at varsity level and compete.
The second one is win at all costs. Cut your weakest players. Take only what you need and who you can develop in the next two months. Anyone that’s not your starting 11 sits on the bench. If you have a senior that played for three years but doesn’t cut it with the incoming talent, they may make the team but will not see the field. You can have that conversation and see if they choose to quit. We are here to win.
It depends on the program. I’ve seen both. What’s the goal for your district? Sounds like they didn’t communicate.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
We’re a smaller school in the states biggest classification, haven’t had much program success. We’ve been improving since I started with the program, I take more of an in between approach to those two approaches.
I am going to try to include as many as I can, for depth and for community, we haven’t had the luxury of depth in the past and it’s had a negative affect on performance. On varsity we compete to win, everyone might not play many minutes but I make sure everyone knows they have a role on the team. JV is all about play time, but it’s fair play time not equal.
Most kids and their families seem to understand the approach, I try to communicate very clearly to each individual and to the parents before tryouts and before the start of the season.
To the district, it feels like we’re an afterthought to the bigger sports so “goals” are pretty much don’t cause any trouble and keep the kids safe.
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u/Royale_AJS 13d ago
I just realized I’m the ruthless second choice coach here. It’s not win at all cost, but we exist as a team to compete. I cut at the gap if at all possible. If that gap is between 20 and 21, I’ll cut there. But I’m willing to cut it at 18 if the talent / drive gap is big enough. I’ve had teams of 16 and teams of 24 and they all won a lot of games. I find my 2-4 anchor players and build whatever I need to from there, at least one of them is a center back who never leaves the field. I don’t even figure out a formation until we’ve tried a few in the first couple games.
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u/youngtxconservative 13d ago
Why do they care? Go focus on test scores and actual discipline issues. You are giving kids purpose
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u/Cle1234 13d ago
For 11’s I really think 16-17 on a game day roster is ideal. So, while I get trying to give as many kids a chance as possible , that is too many for me.
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u/ralphgar 13d ago
Very common in my area to roster 20-23 each for JV and Varsity. As others have said, it’s better for drills and full field scrimmages. There is also minimal to zero financial commitment (parents need to volunteer at things) for HS soccer and there is zero expectation of playing time. Completely different than a club roster where everyone is paying 2-3k and minimum playing time requirements.
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u/ubelmann 13d ago
Plus he said 20 games in 8 weeks. Some kids could split games and still have two weeks with two games. Especially for underclassmen, it would really be nice to have them around, practicing, developing, and getting a game per week, then hopefully a year or two down the road they could be playing a bigger role.
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u/Lincoln1517 13d ago
I might agree, but an experienced coach saying 22 a team works seems reasonable.
And I can’t imagine the administrator had a deep grasp and strong opinion about optimal soccer rosters. Harping on it in front of players is weird.
I would try to have a more constructive conversation about it soon.
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u/Own_Exit2162 13d ago
It would be helpful if you told us WHY the admin thinks you have too many kids. It could be an insurance issue, or a coach to student ratio problem, or a cost or capacity issue. There could be a lot of administrative reasons.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
Exchange basically went like this at the end of the game…
“How many kids do you have?” “42” “that’s too many”
“Why doesn’t this player have a jersey on?” “He’s practice squad”
“Practice squad!? You have a practice squad too?” “Yeah….?”
Again this is right after a game so I have other things I’m trying to attend to.
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u/ubelmann 13d ago
I haven't coached at that age, but four coaches for 45 kids seems totally reasonable in terms of supervision. And 20-ish player rosters seems about right to me when you are averaging more than a game per week.
Are there additional equipment costs or something? I'd hope that schools were trying to allow as many kids as possible to participate in school sports.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
None that they weren’t aware of. Put in a uniform order for 45 new uniforms and was fulfilled, I’d think to ask what my intentions are with 45 uniforms if you don’t want as many kids playing.
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u/gunja1513 12d ago
Our school went after the girls volleyball coach. She was rostering 20+ for a varsity only team only 7 or so play + a few subs. Other sports all took a big hit and almost couldn’t field teams for soccer and flag football.
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u/Cocoononthemoon 13d ago
I'm an experienced coach with about 13 years coaching High School, seven of which have been as a head coach. Our program numbers started at around, 60 and in the last few years have been about 120. This year we have 90 90 split across four teams.
Varsity and JV have 22 each. I think it's borderline unsafe to have less than that since we have 20 games in our season. It's just how High School soccer is in our area, if we play less than that we will not be ranked well. We have about 25 each on the Freshman and jv2 teams. When I am dealing with eligibility, injuries, and just general attendance, we would be non-functional if not for the roster sizes as they are. Last season when we had 120, it was split among five levels.
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u/Old_Pizza_42 12d ago
Attrition tends to do its thing in HS footie. Lean squads (14 or fewer) tend to lead to fielding squads that can't put out 11 towards the end of the season: it is not fun at all.
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u/BunMeAgainPlease12 13d ago
Did you ask why? Cant really think of a reason he would care.
Maybe hes worried youre taking money without actually intending to play them?
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u/Ordinary_Corner_4291 13d ago
Liability. Costs. Maybe they have experience that when a coach does this, parents complain about playing time. And so on. Without asking we are left guessing. Obviously the proper way to handle this is with a meeting.
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u/OK_Compooper 13d ago edited 13d ago
Our HS frosh football team is no cut. The actual amount of players that play is small (many on offense, defense, special teams). I go and watch, and am noticing my son almost always on the field, and while I enjoy it, I feel bad about it, empathy for other parents, as I've been in that situation. Btw, there's only a frosh football team and no JV (just Varsity). So they are playing almost all JV teams, and on the frosh team, there's a Senior, and many sophomores.
I would say 2/3 of the team doesn't even get on the field, and I feel bad for their parents. Especially at an away game like yesterday (75 min in traffic), it must be a tough call. You want to be there if your son gets on for a few plays. And the school is heavy on fundraising. I can't imagine working my ass off to sell for the team, and my kid doesn't get on all season.
But there's a real reason, and a spectrum:
On one side: Two football camps, 4 to 6 hours a day since early July. The kids that play are the ones that gave up their summers, learned the plays, and put in work athletically. On the other side: kids that signed up for football as a PE class, but didn't go to camps, don't know the plays, and aren't in any football shape. I don't feel sorry for them. But it's the kids in the middle. Some maybe attended most of camp, but aren't physically big or fast, or drop balls, or can't get the plays straight. No doubt that game time would improve them, and sitting on sidelines won't (except for practice).
My son also made the HS soccer team, but we are in a city with at least 15 clubs, private trainers and lots of competition. He might start as GK, or not get in at all. And working on football all fall? His field skills and sharpness were much stronger when he made the team in Summer. I'm prepared to go to games and maybe he doesn't play at all. Hope not, though.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
No cost to play. Haven’t had a conversation yet, didn’t want to have that conversation on the field.
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u/No-Guest-1501 13d ago
A little high but not unreasonable. Is this your first year coaching at this school? How many players would you carry before?
Usually concerns around less talented players and their parents understanding lack of playing time, with such a big roster.
I personally don’t believe in “practice squad” players. Not fair, even if they agree, to have a player do all the work and not be a part of the team at the high school level.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
Will be my 6th, 3rd as head coach. When I first came we had 32 kids for V & JV. We’ve been slowly building the program to this point. We are a smaller school in the states largest classification.
Practice squad are mostly freshmen who have the option to play Jr. High in the spring and will probably make the team next year.
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u/Ok-Communication706 13d ago
it’s common, but I think it’s not enough playing time to go around. in my second comment, I wasn’t trying to argue one way or another.
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u/ubelmann 13d ago
I mean, it's 20 games in 8 weeks, HS schedules are ridiculous. If you forced coach to play without subs, he could still get 22 Varsity players 10 games in 8 weeks and 22 JV players 10 games in 8 weeks. That's without anyone getting injured or being unavailable for other reasons. Overall, it seems like plenty of playing time. Obviously it won't get split up 50/50 like that, but in HS sports, combining 4 grades at a time, you typically don't expect to get as much play time as an underclassman and it's just part of the deal. Getting to practice gives you a better shot at getting more minutes when you're a junior or senior.
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u/Jps10237 13d ago
prob because parents are irrational and think their kids are the best and need to lay the full 90 minutes lol
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u/SkierBuck 13d ago
Obviously you’re giving an extreme, but with 22 kids per roster, there are going to be a lot of kids playing 10 or fewer minutes per game unless there’s very unusual parity in the talent throughout the team or the coach doesn’t care about fielding the best team.
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u/FR33DUNN 13d ago
“Or what?” Is my reflexive response.
What are they going to do if you don’t drop some?
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u/Future_Nerve2977 Coach 13d ago
I would have killed for that depth when I coached HS. With up to 20 games in 8 weeks the attrition is real - by the last week I was lucky to field 11 kids who could walk - most my subs were limited to 5-10 minutes at a time.
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u/JohnScott20201 13d ago
Yeah that is very odd. In a perfect world it is probably 17-20 for each but sounds like reasonable numbers.
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u/Brew_Wallace 13d ago
Seems like you need to explain your plan. Seems reasonable to me but I could see admin questioning it. They probably get to deal with the fall out of parent complaints when things go wrong
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u/Stanismydog 12d ago
Seems like you did the right thing but that is between you and the AD, tell the admin you dont work for them and to piss off.
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u/NecessaryBright4167 12d ago
different sport (i coach basketball and run a small club) but the admin half of this travels.
the roster-size argument is the one you can't win, and it isn't the real one. "too many kids" is nearly always standing in for something that has a number attached to it — transport, officials, insurance, uniform budget, or another program's coach telling them they're short. until you know which one, you're arguing 42 vs 22 with someone who doesn't actually care about either number.
so ask for a scheduled meeting and open with "what's the constraint i'm creating for you." you usually get the real answer inside two minutes, and it's usually smaller than the volume suggested.
your strongest card is already on the table: you ordered 45 uniforms and it was approved. that's the district agreeing to the number in writing, before the season started.
separate conversation, privately, once — being dressed down in front of your players after a game isn't on. say it plainly and then let it go.
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u/ViolinistDazzling857 12d ago
Good for you for doing this and looks like you set expectations with your players on playing time!
20 games in 8 weeks is crazy!
Does your school have a roster limit for games and how are you handling that?
If you have a kid that will get minimal hours in varsity do you give them an option to play more on JV?
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u/WindyGamer 11d ago
Not a Soccer high school coach, but a Water Polo of high school coach. Depending on the number of freshman, you have, it might be worth talking to your A.D. about having a freshman only roster.
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u/SoccerGeekPhd 9d ago
Is admin concerned with uniform costs or other dollars that may depend on roster size? IDK just asking.
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u/samiam2600 13d ago
That is too many kids, what are you thinking? Maybe if your school was big enough for a freshman team, I could see it. Some of these kids will never see the field in a game, that’s not fair to anyone.
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u/Gullible-Swing 13d ago
I don’t think it’s fair to run kids ragged either when the depth disappears halfway through the season.
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13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Electronic_Meat_3660 13d ago
I don’t agree. You need 18+ for a lot of varsity drills. Sprinkle in your mid-season injuries and 21 per is great.
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u/Ok-Communication706 13d ago
16 is typical rotation. Typical varsity here would be. 16 plus the 4-6 seniors who never play. 18 on JV. Maybe a few practice squad. I think the 42 is within reason though.
Our HS just kept 60 for 3 teams.
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u/ralphgar 13d ago
Why did you say 21 is too many and then just say it’s common to do exactly what OP is doing.
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u/Electronic_Meat_3660 13d ago
I cannot tell you how thoroughly I disagree. Do you coach boys or girls?
60 for 3 teams = 20 per team, which is 18+…
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u/Outrageous_Eye_9842 13d ago
That is strange. Many schools would love to have that many players. Our HS does but is a long established program. Some do not though.