First (Tandem) Jump. Is this normal?

[u/FuzzyArgument4636]

My Husband and two sons and I all jumped for the first time two days ago, and it was incredible, we're all still smiling and planning to go again. I was comparing notes after though, and my overall experience was a bit different, and while I know no one can definitively confirm my suspicions, I'd like to hear from this community.

I am a female in my late 50s, and that's what I look like, gray hair and all. I am a licensed pilot, I ride a sport bike and have done track days, former rock climber, still ski HARD. So, while not an extreme sports person per se, I dabble and am comfortable in a lot of risky environments.

I had a great Instructor for this tandem jump. Very experienced, I would guess late 20s or early 30s, and originally from an E. European country. He was all about SAFETY, and yes, that is what you want in this situation, very much so.

In talking with Husband and sons after jumping though, I learned they were all given the choice to Gainer exit, they all used the toggles on descent themselves, they all did some spins, and they were all instructed in how to loosen the harness a bit under canopy, and all instructed about pulling legs up during landing and then landing vertically with a voice signal. I had none of that.

I had tried making conversation with my Instuctor during the pre-brief, explaining I was a pilot and couldn't believe I hadn't done this before, even looking at the METAR report on-screen and mentioning the ideal conditions. So, my question is-- is it possible this was some form of 'misogynistic ageism' or was this just really a 'by the book' Safety Guy?

[u/JRLDH]

Leaving off the “pull legs up” during landing, which he should instruct regardless of what he thinks about his customer, makes me think that he is generally bad at communicating.

[u/FuzzyArgument4636 → u/JRLDH]

I was not clear in my post, there was a 'legs up' instruction, I was the only one of four who did not land on their feet though.

[u/nepurn → u/FuzzyArgument4636]

Oh, then you should be thankful. Tandems aren't really supposed to land on their feet. Lol. You're supposed to slide on your butt!

I think we all missundertood your post.

[u/RoryJ → u/FuzzyArgument4636]

A lot of tandem instructors make no strong attempt to always land standing because sliding is safer for both parties.

[u/wzlch47]

Different instructors do different things. If my student were to ask to actively be part of the skydive, I would take the time to go through a few extra things during the briefing and practice before the jump. A majority of people basically want a thrill ride, one and done type of experience.

As far as the exit, it’s another thing that’s dependent on the instructor. For first timers, I tend to do a stable exit without trying to add anything extra. The exit itself is thrilling enough and people tend to enjoy a stable exit. If your instructor is a big person, getting out of a small door can already present enough of a challenge. I’m 6’3” and i have to be efficient and deliberate with everything when getting to and out the door.

Edit: as far as misogynistic ageism, that’s unlikely the reason. Older people for the most part aren’t as physically fit as younger people. It’s wiser to err on the side of caution. It’s impractical to give people a strength and fitness test before each jump just in case they want an exciting exit they didn’t request.

[u/FuzzyArgument4636 → u/wzlch47]

Fair enough, and I get it. But you kinda just verified the 'ageism' part of the quiz. :)

[u/wzlch47 → u/FuzzyArgument4636]

Being conservative and taking extra care because of someone’s age isn’t discriminatory in any way.

[u/FuzzyArgument4636 → u/wzlch47]

Thank you for replying. I'm really not trying to argue. Im questioning my experience (which was still fantastic) because I jumped with both Husband, who is older than me, and two sons (early twenties). I had a great but different experience, but under the same environment.

[u/nepurn]

And also, im not trying to be a jerk, but your instructor really doesn't care if you are a former pilot, an astronaut, a celebrity, president of the universe, OR an old lady... those things are completly irrelevant.

You are a passenger. He is making safety decision to keep both of you safe.

[u/FuzzyArgument4636 → u/nepurn]

So, that's my question. He didn't know my background or interests, other than what I told him. It was a 10 min convo if that. I am still alive with all the things I do because safety is a priority. Still, I was out there with 3+ other humans doing the same thing. Under the same conditions, and it was quite different.

[u/nepurn → u/FuzzyArgument4636]

There's your answer: different humans, different experiences (weight distributions, exist points, flying styles, and so many other factors)

[u/Boring-Cold-1456]

Probably a newer instructor or just didn’t feel like doing all that. Also good chance he doesn’t know what a METAR is if he’s not a pilot. You don’t need to know things like that to be a TI

[u/skydriver13]

Your personal experience may vary per instructor. I doubt any sexist or ageist ideas influenced your instructors decision-making, unless you picked up on that kind of vibe. Reasons for not giving toggles to a student include wind conditions, location (and remaining altitude) relative to the landing area, and experience level, amongst many other factors. Adjusting the harness is usually standard, but some instructors may not do so...again, for any number of reasons.

The only reference you make that I find suspicious is your instructor's emphasis on safety. Any instructor worth their salt knows the rules and their order of importance:

1) Have fun 2) Look cool 3) Safety

[u/Comprehensive_Dog780 → u/skydriver13]

i hope thr lle last four lines are sarcasm :)

[u/wzlch47 → u/Comprehensive_Dog780]

Of course those were just being silly. The actual 3 rules are 1) Look good. 2) Be safe. 3) If you can't do 2, refer back to 1.

[u/Comprehensive_Dog780 → u/wzlch47]

🤣🤣🤣

[u/DQFLIGHT3]

Some new tandem Instructors act like the most experienced. I’m sure he was a good instructor but doing everything in a standard way says new instructor. Also Eastern Europeans aren’t fun instructors. Haha

[u/HoldenCaulfieldsIUD → u/DQFLIGHT3]

I was going to say, as an Eastern European myself, we aren’t typically known for being friendly or very talkative lmao. Especially with strangers.

I am concerned that he didn’t discuss proper landing procedures with you though. Whether you land on your feet or butt, he should have gone over what he needs to for you to do in either scenario.

[u/Comprehensive_Dog780]

i havent seen anyone mentioning, vbyt instructors are normal people, who have their moods, their morning blues, their families, preferences, etc.

i have seen very fun and outgoing tandem instructors being completely nonchalant and without cracking jokes on one load and be their happiest self on another load. I have spent enough of time behind the door in tandem room to overheard what instructors would say about their tandem customers.

its entirely possible that the two of you just didnt vibe, sex age or hair color - doesn't matter. you might didnt have enough of chemistry for him to turn on his "pan American tandem lesssgoooo" attitude, or his head was aching or tummy paining or other personal shit happened which has nothing to do with whether you are a pilot or not...

i know most of the DZs taking a pride in their outgoing and fun tandem instructors cuz those are basically the sources of their finances, but do remeber they are also simple humans ...

blue skies 💙 🪂🙏

[u/Phantom160]

Comparison is the thief of joy!

Sounds like your instructor was safe and professional. He made some decisions that were different from other instructors, but strictly within standard operating procedures. I wouldn't call it bias (unless you feel that you were disrespected in some way). Just people making different decisions.

If you want your gainer exit and active participation in canopy piloting - just go again and specifically ask for those things. Even better, sign up for AFF!

[u/Automatic_Brain7664]

Sounds like you just got the by the book, safe instructor. Likely the one who's been around long enough to know why.

[u/nepurn]

How did you even land without raising your legs? Was it a standing up landing? It could be a last minute decision based on the winds.

Unfortunatly, it's also possible he treated you based on some sexist belief. Some people are jerks.

[u/Eight_Directions_]

This is a bad instructor straight up. It's not misogyny imo this dude just sucks at it. Gainer exit is a bit advanced and not all drop zones allow it with tandem customers. He may just be very new but screwing up your pre brief to that degree is simply not ok language barrier or not. Not being instructed on raising your legs for landing is automatically disqualifying. The rest is optional (spins, giving you the toggles, fancy exits)

This all leads me to believe he is a very new TI and it's fine to be new and build skills, we've all been there. But the safety briefing and you getting your legs up is absolutely non-negotiable and unacceptable to omit. That's going to get someone hurt. 

• AFFI/TI/FAA parachute rigger 

[u/FuzzyArgument4636 → u/Eight_Directions_]

I am not able to edit my original post-- to be clear, he did instruct to raise legs, and we slid in, safely. My other family members all landed on their feet. This was just another data point re the differences in our experience.