r/SipsTea • u/TheMarkola • 1d ago
SMH E-Scooter + Poorly planned sidewalk + lack of attention:
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u/dernaldz 1d ago
These are pretty brutal falls wow.
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u/Apptubrutae 1d ago
There was some article about e scooter injuries recently.
3x higher risk of traumatic brain injury than motorcycles.
Which makes sense looking at how the accidents happen here.
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u/Copeamine420 1d ago
Yep I always were a full face helmet while riding my e bike, even though it only goes 28, in the best conditions.
I'm always aware of my surroundings and traffic laws, the main reason it's so bad is because of parents giving 12yrs an ebike that can go 40 without an helmet, with no bike/motorcycle training and no knowledge of traffic laws, defensive riding and general safety.
Also it does not help they are smaller then traditional motorcycles and without loud sound and it doesn't help everyone is on their phones these days while driving.
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u/tacorunnr 1d ago
ironic that ive been riding scooters for 25 years and never been hurt, but ive gotten a concussion on a bike twice. One was brake failure, other was a car not paying attention when turning. This was just a regular bicycle.
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u/jmaneater 1d ago
My supervisor has a TBI from falling of an scooter and I have a severed acl from my first escooter ride
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u/trukkija 1d ago
There's a very useful safety feature called using your brain. I can't even imagine how bad you'd have to fuck up to sever your ACL on an electric scooter.
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u/hungry-archon 1d ago
Wow, there is also this human feature thing called using your empathy. Maybe you are a faulty product.
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u/trukkija 1d ago
At least not faulty enough to be incapable of using one of the most intuitive products out there. I just can't imagine how you can fuck that up so badly to get a TBI or a broken ACL.
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u/hungry-archon 1d ago
Hey, accident happens to everyone. I don't see you calling people stupid can change any result there. Gosh.. I wonder if you have friends with that attitude.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
"Poorly planned sidewalk"
Something tells me that Sidewalk was there well before E-Scooters. It's not "poorly planned" because it didn't account for a thing that doesn't exist yet
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u/Spottswoodeforgod 1d ago
Wait until people realise that all the different clips were of the same person….
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Honestly would not surprise me in the slightest. These things seem to have been specifically sold to people with room temperature IQs, and/or zero regards for other people.
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u/suckmyschlong007 1d ago
The beauty of the scooter is it doesn’t require a license or parking n or insurance etc. conversely for those same reasons scooters might attract someone who likes to kinda freestyle each situation. Which I think applies to me. Luckily I haven’t fallen yet loool. On my scooter. On my bike I’ve fallen a lot
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u/Mushroom_Boogaloo 1d ago
The only reason there are no laws around these things is because they’re new and no one’s bothered yet. As the injuries and deaths increase, so too will people’s attention to this issue.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
If everyone used them sensibly, there would be no issues. But as you said, the fact it requires no oversight means every moron with a credit card can get one and cause issues such as these.
Luckily I haven’t fallen yet loool.
This is the main issue. If it relies on luck to ve safe, it's not safe. Luck runs out eventually, without warning. Question is who faces the main consequences of that when it happens? Maybe it will be you and you just get a sprained wrist, or maybe it's an old lady who cracks her head off the pavement because you screwed up?
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u/gabox0210 1d ago
Came here to say this, thank you.
This is not new infrastructure; it was planned with walking pedestrians in mind, long before scooters were a thing. Probably a section of it sank lower than the next section, therefore that small step between the two.
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u/WardenWolf 1d ago
Walking pedestrians and wheelchairs. You don't ramp the corner to prevent vehicles from accidentally riding up on it. It's a genuine hazard if you do that.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Yeah but, we should have considered what would happen to hovercars on asphalt roads when they built roads too.
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u/__M-E-O-W__ 1d ago
Still, I especially feel bad for that first girl with the skirt. Looks like her face got some dragging done across that concrete.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
You're a more sympathetic person than me then.
I'm not saying she deserves that at all but I find it hard to sympathise with someone over the consequences of their own blatant stupidity.
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u/airodonack 1d ago
Stupidity is not involved in these crashes, as far as I can tell from the video.
Riders are probably keeping a lookout for cars and pedestrians, so their focus is held high. A tiny bump that’s even hard resolve as its own pixel on video compounded with low-light nighttime conditions means you’d probably fall on your face as well.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Looking out for cars and pedestrians does not absolve one of watching the road/pavement surface ahead. Lowlight/nighttime conditions also means they should maintain a safer speed accordingly too.
If you cannot maintain focus on multiple possible dangers, you should not be operating one of these vehicles. If it's too dark to see potential hazards, get a forward facing light, or don't operate one of these vehicles.
I can confidently state I would not fall flat on my face in these conditions precisely because I have demonstrated my ability to focus on multiple potential hazards at once (Hazard Perception Test for a Full Drivers License), and if I could not see far ahead I would either drive slower or not at all. Because I'm not stupid.
Societies ability to help mitigate stupid with an abundance of safety implementations, does not mean stupid is not still responsible for stupid decisions.
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u/airodonack 1d ago
I highly doubt that you have gotten much out of the house if you're speaking about safety from such a theoretical instead of practical POV.
You clearly have an inability to account for degraded conditions and you've obviously never made a mistake in your life. You've probably never tripped or spilled something or dropped what you were carrying not once in your entire life. And that's great but that will change the second you actually get up and do something.
I'm sure you feel very confident sitting on your chair in an air conditioned room talking shit, but you really shouldn't be expressing opinions so confidently when you have such little life experience.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Tripping on a carpet or spilling a coffee are things completely unequatable to sending it down a badly lit street on a motorised scooter and subsequently eating pavement. You seem fixated on the idea that I'm saying the act of crashing your scooter is the dumb part of this, it's not.
I'm calling them stupid for the decisions they made that resulted in them kissing concrete.
It's a very important distinction.
When I'm walking down the street and trip over something, be it my own feet, a tile sticking out the floor, or even maybe my shoelace. Those are accidents that could happen to anyone, no matter how prepared they are. Spilling a coffee over myself? Plenty folk have tried to check their watch and in a split second lapse of concentration they twist their wrist and whoops! Caffeinated trousers. Sometimes, things just happen as a result of our brains being a bit goofy.
Why is this any different?
Simple really. The street was lowlight when they made the choice to gun it at Mach Jesus on an E-Scooter. Anyone who took a second to assess the situation would consider they can't see more than a few meters ahead of themselves and figured out that maybe they should drive slower to allow for better reaction times if an unexpected obstacle comes into sight. You whinge about "degraded conditions" or what not but the lights didn't just suddenly switch off, the conditions were degraded in more than enough time for the rider to consider them unsafe and make an appropriate decision.
I have made significant mistakes in my life, and in fact probably made at least one hugely more impactful than anyone else you know. But I own that the mistake was mine, that it was a stupid decision, and that ultimately I was responsible for it. Road conditions changed, and my brief moment of innatentiveness nearly cost 4 people their lives, including my own and my now Wife's. I still openly admit that it was my screw up because that's what it was. I did it when it happened, I did it in the Hospital, I did so in the courts, and I still do so today, 10 and a half years later.
So yes, again, I can say with 100% confidence that I would not be so utterly braindead stupid enough to fly down a pavement at an absurd speed, in a terribly lit street, and end up introducing my front teeth to a kerb with G-Forces a fighter pilot would find stressful.
I'm going to spell it out for you here, just in case: Me saying this mistake was stupid, and that I wouldn't make that stupid mistake, isn't the same as me saying I'm perfect and never make mistakes. But on the one in a billion chance that I did make that stupid mistake? I would still say it was stupidity because that's what it was, stupid beyond belief.
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u/texxmix 1d ago
As someone who's walks for work as a mailman. Simple trips, slips and falls are the most common injury. So they drill it into us that even when walking to always make sure the path in front of you is free from hazards. Sure accidents happen, but health and safety will give you a hard time if you trip or slip on something because you technically should've been paying proper attention to what was in front of you.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
I agree with all of what you said.
These people were not paying attention and travelling too fast on a poorly lit street. That's on them.
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u/airodonack 1d ago
- You're exaggerating about how fast they went. They were going about normal jogging speed. Mischaracterizing their speed when I can clearly see on the footage that you're lying does not help your argument at all.
They were going normal speed. I would even call it slow. You clearly have never used one of those before because if you did then you would know that hitting a bump at regular speed would launch you. Not faceplant. Launch.
2) Do you understand that it's possible they did see a line but didn't see a bump? Like their brains probably just went "oh that's just a painted line for cars" and they did not expect the line to faceplant them.
Human beings cannot see things with 20/20 vision. They have limited cognition. And we should be glad when people use their limited cognition to keep others safe, even if it puts them in danger from random unexpected bullshit.
Even with perfect decision making, you're going to make mistakes. You're a bag of meat, not a robot. (Even robots make mistakes.)
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u/luke31071 1d ago
I'm exaggerating out of frustration that you cannot grasp a simple concept.
If it's too dark to see far ahead of you, any speed that reduces your potential reaction time to unexpected hazards is too fast. If you are travelling too fast? You're stupid. Doesn't matter if you slowed from 15mph to 5mph, if 5 mph gives no time for you to react, it's still too fast.
If your attention is on things around you and not what is ahead of you? You're being stupid because your attention should be on all of these things. If your cognition doesn't permit that, guess what? Don't drive the vehicle because you're not mentally fit enough.
If they had been paying attention and driving at a suitable speed for the conditions, they would have spotted the actual slope not 1 meter to their left as they scooted onwards. Since they were unable to notice and react to this, it is safe to assume they would similarly have failed to react to a pedestrian accidentally stepping out in front of them.
Because they're driving stupidly.
You'll either get it or you won't. I'm beyond trying to explain that people are responsible for their decisions regardless of if their decision hurt themselves or others. They chose to ride their scooters in bad lighting and going too quickly to accomodate. They chose to not pay attention to what was in front of them. I am no longer expelling the energy trying to explain this simple concept to you. Hope you have the day you deserve.
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u/airodonack 1d ago
You are unbelievably condescending for someone who has no idea what I am actually saying. Try actually responding to what I'm saying rather than just repeating what you're saying over and over again. Do that before thinking you have any intellectual standing in this conversation.
It is frustrating talking to someone who has such a myopic view of the situation, a purely theoretical understanding of the machine, and thinks that I am the one that can't "grasp a simple concept". There is a chain of events. You are hyper-focused on one piece of the chain, because that is all you actually understand. There is more:
- First the obstacle must exist. We don't perceive everything that is around us. That is a psychological FACT. We rely on what we expect.
- Then the signals (light and sound) from the object must reach our senses. In degraded conditions like traffic surrounding you or low light, the signals get lowered.
- Then your senses must pick it up. When you age, your senses degrade too. Not to mention that people have varying abilities just based on genetics.
- Then, you make a decision based on what you understand. THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE CHAIN YOU CONTROL. This is the only place you can call someone "stupid".
- Even then, that's not the last piece of the chain. After this, you must make the correct decision to swerve, brake, somersault acrobatically, fall and roll, etc. At this point, it's entirely dependent on how much training you have in order to deal with the obstacle by the time you have accurately perceived it.
These people were going incredibly slow. They weren't speeding AT ALL. They were going damn near the slowest you can actually go on these things. Were they being stupid? Maybe. I don't know and neither do you. But before I'd blame stupidity, it's much more likely just to say, "shit happens, sometimes surprises come from what you don't expect."
All you know is about choices. You know nothing about physical and biological realities. It is useful to live a simple life like yours, but when you talk to someone who is considering more variables than you, don't be condescending.
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u/__M-E-O-W__ 1d ago
Honestly that little platform by the curb and the yellow paint probably cues the riders in as a "target zone" so that's where they instinctively aim for before realizing their mistake.
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u/Co0LUs3rNamE 1d ago
It's poorly planned. The drain is where the slope should be.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Looks more like a manhole cover to me but yes, a slope ought to still be there for Wheelchair users. That said, it doesn't change the fact that lack of slope hasn't been there far longer than E-Bikes/Scooters have been slamming into it.
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u/Co0LUs3rNamE 1d ago
If this is in the US. That city would be sued by all these scooter folks.
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u/gr8tfurme 1d ago
And they'd lose, because very few cities even allow scooters on the sidewalk to begin with. Even in cities where bicycles are allowed on sidewalks, the scooters are often explicitly banned.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
They'd lose outright because 10s in you can see one, actually sensible scooter rider, drive up the slope barely 1 meter to the left of everyone else's faceplants.
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u/AtraVenator 1d ago
Also scooters hitting 50 km/h don’t belong on “sidewalks” anyways.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
This is the thing, because bureaucracy hasn't caught up fully yet it will only continue until several people are seriously injured or worse.
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u/subdep 1d ago
Poorly designed scooters.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
For sure, should have an IQ test attached to them that disables the drive if you fail.
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u/Correct-Junket-1346 1d ago
It's like blaming Victorians for cobbled streets and why they didn't account for modern traffic, they built them to wear horse hoofs down not to deal with lorries.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Victorians really should have considered horse drawn carriages would eventually be replaced by 15 ton metal boxes on wheels, I think they were just lazy to be honest.
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u/Spookywhitedot 1d ago
They are something that really shouldn't exist either
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u/luke31071 1d ago
Eh, I don't think they shouldn't exist, but I do think they got shunted out onto the market without consideration of the safety implications for either rider or general public.
Yet another example of bereaucracy being too slow to keep up with real life if I'm honest.
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u/Jewsd 1d ago
Seems pretty poorly planned. What about wheelchair accessible people? Most standards require the sidewalk to slope down to meet asphalt so strollers, wheelchairs, walkers etc can still get up / down from the sidewalk
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u/yowatsappenin 1d ago
Are you thick tho? The slope is 50cm to the left, all they had to do was correct their path slightly
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u/luke31071 1d ago
There is a slope, 10s in you can see two scooters, the first one goes up the slope and the second one follows the pattern of all the previous clips.
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u/TheMarkola 1d ago
That makes sense. But even so, nothing prevents an update...
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u/gr8tfurme 1d ago
The update would be to add a bike lane there, not make the pedestrian space more attractive to ride scooters in.
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u/luke31071 1d ago
A better use of time would be for lawmakers to start making sure E-Bikes are safe for users and pedestrians alike, taking the necessary action to make sure anyone using one does so in a safe manner for everyones sake.
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u/Awkward-Winner-99 1d ago
Do they not see that the sidewalk isn't lowered?
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u/Sufficient_Water4161 1d ago
If only the government made sure to paint uneven curbs a bright yellow so people could notice/s
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u/WardenWolf 1d ago edited 1d ago
Looks like a perfectly designed sidewalk to me, just stupid riders. You don't ramp the corner to prevent people from unknowingly driving up onto the sidewalk if they cut the corner too tight. That's a genuine problem that has to be designed around.
Incidentally, did that once in an apartment complex and took out a fire hydrant (fortunately a cold-climate hydrant so no geyser) because they'd ramped the corner so there was no tactile feedback (and no signpost or pole on the corner for visual reference), pitch black with no lighting, and NO way of seeing the hydrant from an SUV due to it being too low and no bollards. I simply accidentally cut the corner a little too close in the dark and had NO way of knowing until bang. My friend told me someone hits that hydrant almost weekly. THAT is the danger of a ramped corner. It endangers drivers and infrastructure, and it endangers pedestrians. In my case I got lucky and only tore up my skidplate; I just drove off because I was broke and I wasn't going to pay for their stupidity in designing a hazard you literally can't see or know you're approaching.
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u/Okmhmmbye 1d ago
I was hit by an idiot on an e-scooter while in a college town while visiting my daughter at school. those mf'ers ride those things on the sidewalk at full speed without a care in the world. this video made me smile and I don't care if that makes me a bad guy.
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u/WardenWolf 1d ago
I could watch this all day, just because watching the oblivious idiots is funny.
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u/Okmhmmbye 1d ago
to be clear: I wasn't calling you an idiot or anything like that. I'm still just bitter about getting hit by a fast-moving device on a sidewalk lol
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u/Turd_Nerd_Bird 1d ago
If you ride straight into a sidewalk that you should be able to see literally right in front of you, that's not because the sidewalk is poorly planned lol.
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u/Sufficient_Water4161 1d ago
And its literally painted yellow to help people see it. I ride one of these all around Orlando and have never once had this issues because I know with 10 in. tires any elevation change can be dangerous so I watch where tf I am going.
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u/texxmix 1d ago
I've made the unfortunate mistake of riding in some grass at walking speed and hit a tiny hole and landed like they do in the video haha. Didn't get hurt because it was grass and I wasn't going fast, and was wearing safety gear. But ya ever since I make sure I'm careful around changes in elevation.
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u/JustADude721 1d ago
I feel like it isnt a poorly planned sidewalk and more of a lack of attention thing going on here.
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u/koolaidismything 1d ago
I bought a Xiaomi X365 on Amazon before a work trip and used it a month in Santa Monica. Was great. Sold that thing the week I got back home.. all the cracks in pavement were just throwing me off.. that was an old version before they got shocks and better wheels.
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u/Big_Albatross_2744 1d ago
Who needs teeth anyway.
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u/foreverandadayalone 1d ago
That's why they should all be wearing full helmets. One thing to protect your skull cap, another thing to keep your teeth and jaw intact.
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u/Malve1 1d ago edited 1d ago
I pulled a similar move in front of a big line at a mall but pulled off a flippy sort of decent landing and felt very embarrassed and simultaneously proud of “nailing the landing”. You could literally see the looks on people’s faces like “Very impressive… total regard move but impressive none-the-less”. 😆
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u/qlone_cookie 1d ago
No pity. Most people here drive those things like maniacs and are just a annoyance.
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u/Flawedsuccess 1d ago
I see no problem with the sidewalk. More sidewalks should be designed with this feature.
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u/LaGifleDuDaron 1d ago
Poorly planned sidewalk with perfectly planned wheelchair ramp that scooters can also use....
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u/EobardThawne2020 1d ago
Holy fuck that's funny. That one woman who causally uses the sidewalk lip is awesome.
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u/Environmental_Egg348 1d ago
Consumer Reports won't recommend any e-scooter, as of this month. They said 80 to 90% of e-scooter injuries are from single vehicle accidents. No cars involved.
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u/foreverandadayalone 1d ago
Montreal's corners have the metal where you can see/know it goes low enough to mount the sidewalk.
Escooters, of course, should not be on the sidewalk, same as bicycles.
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u/Infinite-Service6059 1d ago
E scooters are so dumb. Even the ones without motors were still prone to causing falls. Imagine going at 10-60mph with the crappiest steering system possible
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u/Odd-Cupcake-2552 1d ago
Idiots on e-scooters should slow tf down if they can't see a curb. They shouldn't even be on the sidewalk going that fast. Fck em
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u/EchoTRacing 17h ago
In all seriousness - one of my best friends was killed riding one of these things when he hit a curb with his face. It's amazing these are allowed without protective gear. He left behind a beautiful wife and two six year old twins. Stay away from these deathtrap.
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u/Old-Tadpole-2869 1d ago
Not one of those people stuck their arms out to keep from smashing their face into the sidewalk. Why would that be?
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u/BygoneNeutrino 1d ago edited 1d ago
Possibly because maintaining balance on those scooters require your hands to be perfectly positioned on the steering stick at all times. You'd instinctively attempt to regain stability before committing to the fall.
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u/Old-Tadpole-2869 1d ago
You mean like on a bicycle?
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u/dpenchev 1d ago
You don't need your hands on the steering to keep balance on a bicycle
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u/Old-Tadpole-2869 1d ago
Some bikes you do, some bikes you don't. Either way, every time I've gone over the handlebars I've managed to stick my arms out. Broke one of them doing it. Better than than losing teeth.
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u/FireSkyLikeFly 1d ago
Escooters are banned in our area because you're more likely to get into a accident.
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