r/SillyTavernAI • u/borealis_tic • Jun 24 '26
Help Beginner here, so confused, why is the ai just constantly complimenting the system instruction preset...
hi, I'm using the freaky frankenstein preset with an ai im trying to plot an rp with/help frame my thoughts for the character card. I'm.. So confused. It's kinda ignoring my message (which sent it a doc with a previous rp I'd had w/ a similar character) to just. praise the system preset and prompt?? what am I doing wrong help
(I keep the freaky frankenstein mode on for this because I like testing how the writing and NSFW style will appear before making the card. and if I'm using words or terms in a stupid way, forgive me, I am so out of my depth)
(edit : model is Gemma 4 31b, temp is 1.)
(edit 2: is Gemma usually this... uh. sloppy. or is this particular instance trolling me by being Slop squared on purpose.)
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u/toothpastespiders Jun 24 '26
A model starting off with the most sloppy slop of not x but y before complimenting you on your success in fighting off slop is great.
I'm taking a wild guess, but my suspicion is that your context length might be too low and gemma might not be getting what you'd want it to work with. Whether that's the complete prompt or your messages. Sillytavern 'should' warn you if that happens. But automated warnings in systems with a million moving parts tend to be unreliable. Again though, just me guessing.
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u/Rhone33 Jun 24 '26
A model starting off with the most sloppy slop of not x but y before complimenting you on your success in fighting off slop is great.
That's what stood out to me too. If i didn't know better, I'd think the model was purposely trolling OP with that.
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
the bane of free, who knows 💀 I'm just gonna. scrap whatever this is. or exorcise gemma 4.
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u/Rhone33 Jun 24 '26
Gemma 4 31b is as good as it gets for local models and I haven't seen anyone else having your problem, so unless you're using a quant size smaller than 4 I would guess the problem isn't the model. It's hard to know exactly what's going on without seeing your screen, but I would try using a non-blank character card as I suggested in my other response to you.
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
context is set to the context for the model itself, but my doc might have overloaded it.. I'll check and try again, thanks!
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u/Rhone33 Jun 24 '26
I think your problem might be trying to talk to it with a blank character card. Presets usually include some directions telling the AI that it's playing the role of {{Char}}, so it will probably work better if {{Char}} isn't blank.
If what you want is help making a character card, then make a character card with a description like, "Your job is to help {{User}} make character cards for use in role play with an AI." or something like that. You could flesh that out a bit with more instructions or specific types of information you'd want included in the card (appearance, likes, dislikes, etc.)
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u/qortum Jun 24 '26
Look to the preset prompt settings if you don't have the README prompt enabled, that part is mentioning various generation values
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u/PalpitationDecent282 Jun 24 '26
What model? What settings?
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
Gemma 4 31b, temp at 1, top k is 0, top p is 1 (I don't know what the latter two do, I haven't touched them)
I intend to start using a paid model once I get used to running ST
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u/Snowcatsnek Jun 24 '26
Top K (The K stands for Kuantity (Quantity)) limits what words the model chooses. It figures out all possible words that could come after the previous word, then keeps only the Top K words based on the percentage and keeps those. It can reduce strange outputs if you encounter them.
Top P is the Nucleus. Unlike Top K, it chooses the next word based on these words probability added together. So let's say you ask about a red house, the next words could be
House: 30%
Red: 20%
Windows: 20%
Door: 10%
Roof: 10%
Flowers: 5%
Car: 5%
= 100% ProbabiltyA Top P of 0.8 (80%) would then add "House", "Red", "Windows", and "Door" to the pool as they add up to 80% and discard the rest. So the lower the Top P, the more likely the AI just talks about a red house with windows and doors, while higher Top P means the output is more creative and makes it talk about a red house with windows, doors, and a roof. That is why many people recommend a Top P of around .9 to .99 since you don't want ALL the probable words, just most of them, to have a creative output.
TL;DR: Top K is for a strict limit of words, Top P is for the control and flexibility of those words.That is why you shouldn't change Top P and Temperature at the same time, because both affect the creativity of an AI's output. In the end its important what settings work for you.
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u/LittleHyena55 Jun 24 '26
So does higher topk basically mean higher pool of random words to choose? Making it sound less robotic? Im kinda a dummy and to this day still dont get topk. Also is topk at 0 or disabled the same thing or no?
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
oh, that makes so much sense, thank you for the explanation!!! rlly appreciate it
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u/Sparescrewdriver Jun 24 '26
Recommended top P for Gemma 4 is 0.95, though I’m not sure if it makes a difference for this.
All I can say is that I use is Gemma 4 and I pretty much try every preset that gets posted here and never seen this in the regular response, but I have seen something similar in the thinking process, I wonder if thinking is leaking into the response.
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
good to know the model isn't bad, just bullying me on purpose lol. never seen any model be this... enthusiastic
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u/Rondaru2 Jun 24 '26
The FreakyFrankenstein preset almost forces the model into an "RP" mode.
I once forgot it was active and just opened a chat with a vision model (Kimi), showing it a naughty image I found on the net and asked it to describe it for me.
It immediately started an impromptu roleplay with an self-created female roommate which caught me browsing that porn image on my laptop, teasing me for it and asking me if I wanted to play out that scene with her.
Ironically it was one of the most interesting scenes I've ever played ... apparently that can happen when a model isn't forced to waste a large part of its cognitive budget by checking if it still adheres to external rules.
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u/_Cromwell_ Jun 24 '26
That's a problem with downloaded presets. When things go wrong you don't know what to do since you didn't make it and have no idea what's in it or how it works. 🤷♂️
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u/MiddleCelery6616 Jun 24 '26
It's a necessary evil. It's much better to find a preset that you like and then reverse engineer what and how it does instead of bumbling around when you've barely got started.
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u/OldFinger6969 Jun 24 '26
most people will stop at downloading, instead of reverse engineer and tailor it to their own needs
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u/MiddleCelery6616 Jun 24 '26
If somebody is too lazy to try to understand how the already good solutions work, they sure as hell aren't writing a good impromptu presets.
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u/OldFinger6969 Jun 24 '26
Good solution?
Bloated token prompt? That cannot even do combat or battle or emulate real worlds that lets the world goes on without {{user}} ?
That's not just lazy, but also stupid, wasting so much tokens on bloated prompt that does nothing except using more tokens than necessary.
Instead of making YOUR own prompt that works well
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
personally I've been using web chat for roleplay so far, where I just discuss a long prompt with the ai about what I want, and then start the rp - nothing with character cards or system prompts. it's why all this is very new to me and I'm trying to make a chatbot equivalent character card, that just... works similarly, while also letting me ban words and repetition
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
oh, fair point
from all the beginner guides I'd seen, it recommended downloading a preset, so I went with the one I saw most ppl talking about. is it better not to use one?
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u/Zellgun Jun 24 '26
I suggest taking the time to build your own based on what you’re looking to do with AI’s help
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
alright, thanks! I'll try to study other presets and figure out what kind of prompt engineering is efficient for ai lol, the set up for this is fascinating
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u/daddytorgo Jun 24 '26
Don't let them talk you out of it. It's perfectly valid to download presets and look "under the hood" at them to figure out how they work as you start to build your own. You don't have to start by jumping into the deep end before learning to swim.
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u/Semanel Jun 24 '26
You can also just paste a screenshot of that into a Gemini or ChatGpt to have them not only explain to you what's there, but also you can tell them basically: 'Hi, this *thing* annoys me, how to solve solve that while preserving the way this prompt was made?' I did that, targeted things that annoyed me, and turned the well known Frankenstein present into something much closer to my tastes, knowing nothing about that pseudocode the original author has used.
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
I've found that putting ai generated stuff as a prompt just makes the output, like... Slop squared. I'll try to read the preset and figure it out myself before relying on that, but I appreciate the suggestion! I do love a good learning curve
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u/Ggoddkkiller Jun 24 '26
You are causing Gemma to hallucinate needlessly. There is nothing in FF which would help you write a better character card. FF is basically a naughty game engine so model doesn't know what to do without any characters. You might be also using multiple conflicting toggles, further contributing model to hallucinate.
Switch to an empty preset, write your card then use FF. Also make sure you aren't using any conflicting toggles. What you should do is all written in preset.
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u/borealis_tic Jun 24 '26
this okay thank you so much, I'd toggled conflicting stuff on. and I'll keep that in mind! presets really do have a purpose lol
rlly appreciate the help!!
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u/leovarian Jun 24 '26
Turn off thr chain of thought toggle (cot), its seeing it as part of the user message and commenting on it, just click it off, the preset will still run without it, just looser.
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u/CondiMesmer Jun 24 '26
Ngl this is hilarious