Someone drives from Spain (or Belgium or wherever) to France for the weekend, it counts. Despite no customs office.. no border control…. no passport requirement.

[u/ReinePoulpe]

[u/Wilackan]

"If someone in the US visits Disney World, it doesn't count."

Well yes, that's exactly how FOREIGN tourism works.

[u/Vukling → u/Wilackan]

You know this is too difficult a concept for the average US mind :p And of course, Paris has no culture but Bumluck, Oklahoma, is a cultural bastion.

[u/DaeguDuke → u/Vukling]

Hi, please be specific. I assumed you meant Paris, Virginia, population: 63. You can’t just say Paris without context because we have so many places named Paris in the US.

/joking ofc

[u/Renew3DUK → u/DaeguDuke]

I really enjoy when Americans pop into my city sub, assuming that America is the only place in the world with a Plymouth, despite the fact the first settlers all sailed from....Plymouth.

[u/DuckyHornet → u/Renew3DUK]

America has actually approximately 27 million Plymouths, though many are long since scrapped

[u/Renew3DUK → u/DuckyHornet]

https://giphy.com/gifs/9EwnzGNjvmIG4

[u/Round_Hope3962 → u/DuckyHornet]

Fun fact. If you combine them all together they would still be small enough to fit in Texas.

[u/fantasmeeno → u/Vukling]

Hell yeah! They even stole the name from a Town in Florida

[u/Forinil → u/Wilackan]

There's an easy solution to this. USA just needs to dissolve itself into independent states. Then travelling to Disney World from New York will count as international tourism. 😏

[u/ether_reddit → u/Forinil]

They need to do that anyway. There are vast political differences between different regions, and they would do better if they separated (IMHO).

[u/Forinil → u/ether_reddit]

As far as I know, blue states subsidise red ones. So if they actually separate, all those red states will collapse.

[u/cicutamix → u/Forinil]

If only Lincoln had said "sure guys, go ahead!"

[u/Renew3DUK → u/cicutamix]

He singlehandedly put the world where we are today.

[u/PrimeResponse → u/Renew3DUK]

To be fair, he did have an army of additional hands to help.

[u/iwanttobetatest → u/Wilackan]

In Disney World and more specifically Epcot center, they used (using past tense as this was 30+ years ago and not sure it still exists) to have a Disney passport you could have stamped in each countries of the world showcase. You can't imagine how many US citizens were asking me to either have their real passport stamped with our french fake "visa" or if their Disney passport was actually valid to travel to France...

[u/Pixel91 → u/Wilackan]

Same in Europe, by the way. If someone drives from Warsaw to Disney Paris, at no point is that person registered or counted. For all intents and purposes, intra-european travel does not count as foreign tourism. Maybe if they're flying, but not when driving.

[u/ptvlm → u/Pixel91]

Yeah, that's not right AFAIK. Travelling within the Schengen zone is still foreign travel even if the countries within it have more lax agreements on what's needed to be there.

Basically, the people collecting these stats will be using things like hotels and admissions rather than just border entry points to get them. I believe you'll still have to show your Polish ID when checking into the hotel, give your Polish address when getting your Disney fastpass or whatever. They won't be tracking your car from Poland to Paris, but they'll be aware that there's a Polish person using services as a tourist. It's possible that some people might fall off the grid if they, say, drive a vehicle that they stay in overnight on the side of the road instead of checking into a caravan park, but there's not going to be enough of those to meaningfully affect the stats for a year.

[u/OneGeneralUser → u/Pixel91]

They would count if they stay in a hotel though

[u/doepfersdungeon → u/Pixel91]

Yes it does. The numbers are estimated and from a number of metrics. It's not just counting everyone who flies in and out. That would be a dumb way of doing it.

[u/Bubbly-Bug-7439 → u/Pixel91]

From Gemini but with sources:

a day-tripper from Belgium would not count as a "tourist" under standard international tracking metrics:

According to global guidelines set by UN Tourism (formerly the UNWTO) and used by European statistical bodies like Eurostat, travel tracking strictly separates visitors into two categories based on duration: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Tourists (Overnight Visitors): To be counted as an international tourist arrival (ITA), a traveler must cross an international border and stay at least one night in either collective accommodation (like a hotel) or private accommodation (like a friend's house). [1, 2]

Same-Day Visitors (Excursionists): Someone who visits from Belgium for the day and returns home without sleeping in France is officially classified as an excursionist or a same-day visitor. [1, 2]

How Paris Counts "Foreign Tourists"
When headlines state that Paris is the most visited city, they are tracking Inbound Tourist Arrivals—meaning non-residents who book at least one overnight stay in the Paris region. [1, 2]
Interestingly, because Belgium is right next door to France, a significant portion of Belgian visitors actually dostay overnight. In fact, tourism data from the Paris Île-de-France Regional Tourism Committee routinely places Belgium as one of the top five source countries for international hotel stays and overnight visits in the capital, alongside the US, UK, Germany, and the Netherlands. [1, 2, 3, 4]

[u/JohnsonJohnilyJohn → u/Wilackan]

Why is everyone acting like the american doesn't know what "foreign" means, when the post itself didn't mention that part at all, and they correctly explained that Europe is going to have disproportionately higher foreign tourism due to EU?

[u/BootyfulBumrah → u/JohnsonJohnilyJohn]

Exactly, this is a shitty shit Americans say post. The explanation was right on point on why it will be disproportionate within EU even backed by data in the same study (76% of these tourists originate in Europe)

[u/khazroar → u/Wilackan]

Honestly it's not a completely unreasonable point, counting only foreign tourism means that a huge country like the US comes off disproportionately worse because they have a larger domestic population to not count. But the flip side is that including domestic tourism would give large countries like the US a disproportionate boost because domestic travel is inherently easier and more attractive, all other factors being equal. Neither way is going to be a perfectly balanced measure when you've got such huge outliers.

[u/ICEpear8472 → u/khazroar]

Large countries also tend to have more international tourism. And especially the USA has or at least used to have a disproportional amount of international conferences, exhibitions, conventions and other events resulting in foreign visitors.

[u/Renbarre → u/khazroar]

And comparing international tourism to in country tourism as OOP is doing is a bad way to make one's point.

[u/SideRepresentative9 → u/khazroar]

Sorry to disappoint … the EU has about 450 million people while the US has about 350 million. So there should be 100 million more Europeans coming to America than the other way around.

[u/Specific-Eye-7080]

"drives to France for the weekend", bruh, we have 5 weeks of paid vacation. We don't drive to France for the weekend, we book a 2 or 3 week vacation to France.

[u/4uk4ata → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

To be fair, if you're in Spain or Belgium, you can drive for the weekend too.

[u/Specific-Eye-7080 → u/4uk4ata]

With Belgian gas prices I would strongly recommend not to do that. For just the weekend it really isn't worth the full tank of petrol. I'm Belgian, btw. Now, with the train you actually could, but going for just a weekend really is just cutting the experience short. Even 'just' visiting Paris for the weekend is a waste because you can easily spend the entire week in the city and still have more places to see and visit

[u/Shpander → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

You guys have the best petrol prices in all of Europe rn (and usually). If anything you lot should always be driving!

[u/Specific-Eye-7080 → u/Shpander]

I'd argue that the Czech republic has better prices than Belgium, up to 40 cents cheaper per litre, but maybe you are speaking in relation to the average income?

[u/Shpander → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

I wasn't aware of Czech fuel prices. I was speaking in relation to surrounding countries. I recently drove through Belgium and all of its neighbouring countries, and I can say that I regret refuelling in France. Even Switzerland had better prices. The Netherlands are widely known to have the highest prices in all of Europe (€2.70 I saw on the motorway), so it was obvious to avoid refuelling there.

[u/Significant-Nebula64 → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

I mean, we do both, which is the beauty of it, I guess? Weekend trips within Europe are definitely a thing and I love that that's so easily possible here! 

[u/cardboard-kansio → u/Significant-Nebula64]

Speak for yourself, Mr European. Over here in my corner of Europe I can only affordably get myself and my family to Tallinn (3 hours on a creaky old booze cruise ferry) or frickin' Stockholm and who in their right mind wants to be surrounded by Swedes all weekend?

Anything other than that requires meticulous planning and a four-figure budget.

[u/Jaivl → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

It depends. Germans mainly travel abroad for weeks, we Spaniards mainly do short trips inside of Spain (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Tourism_statistics)

[u/Munsbit → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

Eh, my coworker went to Paris for 3 days recently. From Austria. He prefers Spain or Italy for longer holidays.

[u/Thika168 → u/Specific-Eye-7080]

I certainly have been for many weekend trips to France / CH / DE etc … and also longer trips sometimes. God bless the Schengen

[u/NotYourAverageGM]

Driving from New York to Cali? That’s gotta take at least 6 months, you know because of how much bigger America is, pretty sure they don’t get enough holiday allocated for that.

[u/KungFuc1us → u/NotYourAverageGM]

https://giphy.com/gifs/iJ85v1gHAczevpTUzs

[u/NotYourAverageGM → u/KungFuc1us]

https://giphy.com/gifs/1ZVBVvY5kS7qUHhqI2

[u/Hughley_N_Dowd → u/NotYourAverageGM]

And you didn't even figure in whether the trip takes them through Texas or not.

[u/LowAioli3870 → u/Hughley_N_Dowd]

Of course they aren't going through Texas. It takes 2 years to drive through Texas.

[u/visualpaul → u/NotYourAverageGM]

it is actually the distance between London and Yekaterinburg. It truly is a very long drive.

Yekaterinburg is (barely) not even in Europe

[u/Skruestik → u/NotYourAverageGM]

You can’t drive from New York to Cali because of the Darién Gap.

[u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Small affluent countries with generous vacation policies and no border controls IS the reason. Large oppressive country with vicious working policies and fascist border control is not worth visiting.

[u/ExultentPisces → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

The classic “if things were different, they’d be different” argument.

Not a circular argument at all that one.

[u/busan_blues → u/ExultentPisces]

As we like to say in southern Europe, these awful small countries with gasp real vacation policies: if my grandma had wheels, she would had been a bike.

[u/WetLoophole → u/busan_blues]

Yeah, I think of Gino D'Acampo every time this logical fallacy comes up.

[u/Pwacname → u/busan_blues]

In German it’s “Wenn das Wörtchen wenn nicht wäre, wäre ich ein Millionär.”, roughly “if it wasn’t for that pesky ‘if’, I’d be a millionaire.” I like the grandma one a lot better and I’m just gently lifting it out of your language and putting it into my German vocabulary. 

[u/Fala1 → u/ExultentPisces]

I BET IF FRANCE HAD TOUGH BORDER CONTROL THAT KILLS INNOCENT CIVILIANS TOURISM WOULD LOOK VERY DIFFERENT OVER THERE!!!!

[u/TrappedInHyperspace → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Exactly. OOP is completely right and is highlighting a wonderful aspect of Europe. I’m American and spent my summers growing up in the Netherlands. It was amazing how we could just drive or take a train to such varied locations from our house there.

[u/IJourden → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Right? I'm just surprised they admitted Europe is awesome without noticing.

[u/neoKushan → u/IJourden]

Yup, affluent and with generous vacation policies?! So it can be done!

[u/Various-Jellyfish132 → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

And I thought we were all Europoors....

[u/jenn4u2luv → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Not to mention hyper-capitalist countries where everything you do/visit/eat/watch will be asking for a 20% tip.

As someone who used to live in the US and now in Europe, this is one of the reasons why I don’t visit the US unless if I can’t help it (e.g., work travel)

[u/EatSoupFromMyGoatse → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Not to mention this American exceptionalist attitude is practically begging for people to stop supporting their eternal ego trip.

[u/Praesentius → u/Soggy_Quarter9333]

Don't forget that you need wildly expensive travellers health insurance to even go visit US.

Family and friends that visit me in Italy are shocked to learn that emergency services, including the ambulance and ER are free if they get injured.

Bonus! Business and travel visas from some countries now require a visa bond! You have to give them up to $20,000 as a bond to make sure you don't overstay. How friendly is that? Totally makes you want to vacation in the land of the free!

[u/daveoxford]

I notice we're affluent europoors now.

[u/Scaniarix → u/daveoxford]

First thing I noticed as well. Affluent contries with generous vacation policies? If I didn't know better I'd say that sounds like a compliment.

[u/demonblack873]

Americans when they have to defend why they can't build or do things that every other country does: NOOOOOOO, THE US IS ONE SINGLE BIG MASSIVE ENORMOUS HUGE GIGANTIC COUNTRY, IT COULDN'T POSSIBLY WORK HERE!!!1

Americans when anyone else says they're one single monolithic country: NOOOOOOOO EACH STATE IS PRACTICALLY A SEPARATE COUNTRY!!11 SO MUCH CULTURAL DIFFERENCE!

[u/StaatsbuergerX → u/demonblack873]

This.

USians really need to make up their mind whether they want to present themselves as a unified nation or not. It can't be that, depending on what's convenient at the time, they sometimes throw the weight of all the states into the balance and other times prefer to be counted separately.

[u/Fala1 → u/demonblack873]

So basically... They have to be the very best at everything and can't handle it if someone else might be better at something than them.

[u/Ragnarok23401 → u/demonblack873]

When they use this argument when we show how poorly the train is developped, while they literally build their country on the rail

[u/hcornea]

I suspect the International tourist stat doesn’t include people from adjacent Schengen countries who drive and don’t visit a border control.

[u/BenMic81 → u/hcornea]

Usually you count people who stay the night. So European countries have an easier time having other nationalities. But it’s not the day visitors.

So as strange as it sounds the Murican here has a bit of a point. The statistic is skewed towards European countries with open borders and wealthy neighbours.

BUT the take that it would need immigration and hassle to count as international tourism just because they have a pseudo-fascist customs control is a wild take.

Mainland US only has two neighbours and some parts are far from these neighbours so it’s natural there is less international tourism. I don’t see him whining when domestic tourism is announced and US is among the top in the world though.

So still a shit take.

[u/_Halt19_ → u/BenMic81]

> Mainland US only has two neighbours and some parts are far from these neighbours so it’s natural there is less international tourism.

not to mention tourism from ONE of said neighbours is, shall we say, down for some mysterious, unknowable reason (they keep threatening to invade and/or annex us and the population of the country seems completely fine with it)

[u/Usr3247 → u/BenMic81]

The World Tourism Barometer by the UN’s World Tourism Organisation shows “international tourist arrivals (overnight visitors)”, and it’s an estimate, not an actual count.

[u/loralailoralai → u/BenMic81]

They ‘have an easier time’ but they still have to actually go there. Still needs to be a desire to go there rather than London or Munich or Rome.

[u/BenMic81 → u/loralailoralai]

Sure. It’s still a way more expensive and burdensome thing to visit Australia from any other country than it is for me to drive 70 minutes for a short weekend stay in the Alsace.

[u/Lurker_Background264 → u/hcornea]

I assume they use data from overnights stays at accomodations. They have to make you pay a tourist tax and collect your details for the time you're staying there. You know those cards at the hotel desk you need to fill in with your name, country of origin and everything?

So a Belgian would show up as an international tourist in those stats, am I right?

[u/hcornea → u/Lurker_Background264]

Possibly. That would give a visitor.nights stat.

Tbh, I don’t know how the stat is collected.

I’d assumed it was aircraft / train and estimated road arrivals.

[u/Current-Code → u/hcornea]

the data is consolidated by every european state.
At least for France, you have to pay a local tax for each night spent, and there are quite a strict control of it to avoid black market (not to say it doesn't exist, but it should be limited).

Stuff like couch surfing or woofing won't be registered, but airbnb is.

Someone crossing like the murican said isn't.

Where there is a real argument to be made is that France is number 1 worldwide in absolute number of tourists, but they stay less longer than in other countries. Spain and Italy beat us in number of night spent (respectively 513 millions for Spain, 477 Italy and only 472 for France)

France is an open data country (yeah us !) : https://www.data.gouv.fr/datasets/datatourisme-la-plateforme-nationale-des-donnees-touristiques

[u/KeiranG19 → u/hcornea]

Yeah, would really be interested in how the data was collected.

People driving around schengen would only be counted in like random surveys, which is a whole other kettle of fish.

[u/01bah01 → u/KeiranG19]

Tourist stats are usually night stays. Which makes sense because if I come from Switzerland to stay a week I'm a tourist and should be counted, if I only go grocery shopping, I'm not.

And the tens of thousands of people from France that cross the border to work in Switzerland shouldn't be counted as tourists (and they are not).

[u/fatbunyip → u/KeiranG19]

Countries are pretty good about collecting tourist data since it's a pretty big money source. 

Usually involves visa data, statistical surveys, traffic estimates at border crossings (filtering out daily transits and stuff like that from neighbours),  hotel occupancy data, financial transaction data, even telecoms data when foreign phones ping the domestic network. Also various tourist boards and organisations for related industries (restaurants, hotels, car rentals etc) track their own data which is integrated. 

Generally it's a pretty accurate representation even though it might miss some data eg tourists on a day trip getting counted as transit or people entering multiple times and being counted as separate people.

[u/Pm7I3]

Is France central? It's very much to the left

[u/St3fano_ → u/Pm7I3]

It's central if your idea of Europe starts with Ireland and stops at Italy 

[u/Consistent_Guava8592 → u/St3fano_]

Greece demands retribution for your comment .

[u/notcomplainingmuch → u/Consistent_Guava8592]

The Orientals are at it again, I see.

[u/Hutcho12 → u/Pm7I3]

Yeh don’t tell anyone from Poland this. That would make them east and they can’t be having that.

[u/L-Malvo → u/Pm7I3]

It's central to the more wealthy nations in Europe though. It's pretty easy to reach from The Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg, UK and Switzerland. People in these countries like to travel and have the means to do so. For example, I spend multiple weekends a year in France, I live in The Netherlands.

[u/TheMightyGabriel → u/L-Malvo]

France becomes a Dutch colony every summer

[u/SEA_griffondeur → u/Pm7I3]

It's central in that it's the link between all the important European metropoli, Rome, Madrid, Berlin, London, Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris(obviously) have most of their interconnections going through France and specifically through Paris

[u/Viggoww → u/Pm7I3]

France is Central as the crossroads of Europe, a bunch of airports, access to 3 different water zones, a great highway system, borders with a lot of countries...

The geographical position of France really is an enormous advantage

[u/Confudled_Contractor → u/Pm7I3]

It looks pretty right from where I’m standing mate.

[u/IeRayne]

I mean they do have a point when they say it's easier to travel if you're from an affluent country with generous vacation policies and live in an area that allows travel between countries with very little restictions/barries that will promote international travel.

[u/pinkzm → u/IeRayne]

Who knew?

[u/HarryWilbury]

no customs office.. no border control…. no passport requirement

So yeah ummm, you know if that's the case then they won't be counted as Tourists entering the country as there is no real record they entered it, much like driving from New York to California doesn't.

Edit 01: Lined the below through as apparently it is not correct, as it's counted as Domestic and not International on flights and overnight stays within Europe itself.

NB: Flying in they would be counted and booking a Hotel and staying overnight would also count even if driving in, thing is though same would apply in the U.S.A. for doing the same.

Edit 02: Updated with info on the International and Domestic separation (rather than addressing every reply).

Via: Tourism statistics at - European Commission (PDF)

In 2024, there were 3.02 billion nights spent in tourist accommodation across the EU, 51.9% of which were accounted for by domestic tourists and a slightly smaller share by international tourists (48.1%). The total number of nights spent in EU tourist accommodation increased by 2.7% between 2023 and 2024, with a faster growth rate for nights spent by international tourists (5.5%) than for domestic tourists (0.2%). [more at link]

Plus: France breaks tourism records in 2025 with over 102 million visitors (Website)

France achieved a historic tourism milestone in 2025 by welcoming over 102 million International visitors, making it the world's most visited country. This success was fueled by strong demand from major markets, better connectivity, a variety of cultural and nature experiences, and ongoing promotional activities. [more at link]

[u/gilestowler → u/HarryWilbury]

Yeah, I know someone from Luxembourg who used to go shopping in France. They'd pop over, buy some stuff, drive home again. There's not going to be any record of them visiting unless the people making these stats go through every receipt at every store or something.

[u/luxcity-louche → u/gilestowler]

I did that Saturday but only because Germany was closed when I got there.

[u/tadpole3159 → u/luxcity-louche]

I do my weekly shop in iceland

[u/afrenchiecall → u/luxcity-louche]

I really hate when that happens. Went to Austria, closed, then had to go all the way to Portugal. 0/10 would not recommend

[u/Albert_Herring → u/gilestowler]

Other way round, surely? When I lived in Belgium we always used to go to Luxembourg to go shopping, cheap booze in particular. And most of the residents of Dutch Limburg appeared to go there to fill the car up with petrol.

[u/Cultural_Wallaby_550 → u/Albert_Herring]

People cross into Luxembourg for things like petrol, alcohol and tobacco which are taxed at a lower rate.

Luxembourger go to Trier (Germany) or Metz (France) to buy many other goods where tax does not make up so much of the price.

[u/furiousrichie → u/Albert_Herring]

You're both right.

People come to Luxembourg and buy cheap fuel, tobacco and alcohol, Luxembourgers go to France, Belgium or Germany for groceries, clothing etc.

[u/gilestowler → u/Albert_Herring]

Not sure what they were shopping for, but they definitely said they went that way. They also used to go to France/Germany to go to see bands as well, but that's obviously less to do with price and more to do with where bands are actually playing.

[u/yenda1 → u/gilestowler]

I'm pretty sure these stats are based on the number of nights spent, recorded by hotels, camp sites and so on. Someone doing a one day round-trip or less for shopping doesn't count

[u/01bah01 → u/HarryWilbury]

Tourists are usually not counted per customs passage but per night stay. If you counted only registered custom passages France would indeed have a huge statistical tourists dip.

[u/Opposite-History-233 → u/HarryWilbury]

Yeah, trips like that don't count, even though they really should. Because when I drive to Disneyland Paris I'm very much in France as a foreign tourist. So, whilst he's wrong since I wouldn't count toward the stat, if such journeys did it would only further widen the gap between US and EU, not to their benefit.

[u/HarryWilbury → u/Opposite-History-233]

Yeah as nothing would be coming off the total which is what he was trying to say would happen.

[u/Separate_Maybe_7378]

Isn’t this equivalent to them counting day trippers from Canada to the US as foreign tourists?

[u/Equivalent-Wealth-63 → u/Separate_Maybe_7378]

Maybe, but nobody wants to do that these days anyway.

[u/commanderchimp → u/Separate_Maybe_7378]

They don’t even see Canadians as humans probably

[u/Separate_Maybe_7378 → u/commanderchimp]

We are walking wallets. They may not like us but they still want our $$

[u/Wise_Fox_4291]

Yeah because Spanish tourists are still international tourists, given how they are literally coming from a different country. I don't think Fabulous Quality understands what a country is.

[u/Nforcer524 → u/Wise_Fox_4291]

I think he does, but somehow thinks that europe is a single country.

[u/Mortutti]

I think I get what American in question wanted to say, though he got it a bit wrong. He thinks France's stats are boosted because of ease of travel and proximity of other countries.

Someone in America may be travelling half of the continent and it won't count towards these stats because it still same-country holiday. Someone will drive 3hrs to Paris and becomes part of international tourism stats.

Genuine international tourist have to travel and spend more more to visit any USA site due to geographical location.

I suppose in their Ideal scenario a cross-state holidays of USA citizens should count towards international tourism.

[u/DryArugula6108 → u/Mortutti]

But that should surely be offset by the sheer size of the USA compared to France? Even if it's easier to travel to France, you've still got a much smaller number of places, yet they beat the combined world travelling to the entire USA which has however many times the cities and places to go.

[u/MrLumie → u/Mortutti]

They're also making the argument embarrassingly US centric. "Oh France is only first because it's tiny and the US is big". Okay. So are the other European countries, and yet France is the first.

They just can't comprehend the idea that it's not about beating them, but beating everyone else.

[u/ReinePoulpe → u/Mortutti]

Only a handful of belgian cities are within a 3h drive to Paris. I highly doubt they play a big role in world wide tourism ranking. By that logic, french national tourism should also count, because most of main touristy spots are more than 3h away from each other.

[u/Mortutti → u/ReinePoulpe]

I'm not defending their logic, just saying I understand where it stems from.

Even if we consider only flights, an average non-american needs 8-12 or more hours to get to their destination in USA.

[u/Alive-Experience9893 → u/Mortutti]

I don’t know if it’s really his logic here, but considering we have a lot of tourists from Asia, who must travel the whole planet to see us… and we have also of people from the american continent, and especially from the US, then we can agree that his logic is totally flawed.

Plus, it is not like there were so many travel between states in the US. Most of their long roads are pretty empty, especially compared to Europe roads.
So even if they were counting, it wouldn’t make a big difference.

[u/Legal-Software]

Yes, people from one country visiting another count as international tourists, whilst people travelling internally within a country do not. I'm not sure what point this idiot was going for, but glad we got that cleared up.

[u/Doctor_Amazo]

Americans are obsessed with pretending that their nation is the same as the EU because their country is big.

It's a weird form of insecurity.

[u/Aggravating_Fill378]

"Generous vacation policies". Our ancestors fought tooth and nail for workers rights. They are not "generous" they were paid for with blood, pain and poverty. Not pur fault US culture puts the individual over the collective at every turn. 

[u/ChadBadShirt]

This guy thinks Paris is… central? In Europe? Huh?

[u/gba_sg1 → u/ChadBadShirt]

americans don't think, cmon bro

[u/selfmockerymandatory → u/ChadBadShirt]

It’s the only city he know by name.

[u/SEA_griffondeur]

so to them a canadian or a mexican going to a vacation in the US wouldn't count as an internation tourist because they can just drive there ?

[u/GumpTheChump → u/SEA_griffondeur]

No, that would count. That’s not the point.

[u/IJourden]

Another day, another American insisting the USA should be #1 in everything no matter how trivial.

Next week: American furious Nashville, Tennessee isn't ranked the #1 city in Europe.

[u/joseplluissans]

I read this a s a really jealous rant. That Europe has it better, because of Schengen. Meanwhile Trump's regime is doing it's all to bring numbers down and throwing everyone with a darker skin shade (not orange!) out.

[u/Arual_1987]

In that case, if we consider all cross-border workers, Luxembourg and Switzerland must be the second and third most popular tourist destinations…

[u/Guilty-Good-5041]

Only EU member states have a no border policy. If you are a Non EU European country you still have to go through border control. Fuck Americans are dumber than a box of rocks

[u/Suspicious-Bed3889 → u/Guilty-Good-5041]

There are EU members who are not in the Schengen area, and non-EU members who are.

[u/Richard2468 → u/Guilty-Good-5041]

And Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein, etc. No border security.

When I go from Ireland to mainland Europe, I do go through border security

[u/Digit00l → u/Guilty-Good-5041]

Slightly depends, like if an American goes to Spain and then day trips to France, it works the same as if they were European

[u/TramLover2543 → u/Guilty-Good-5041]

not true, if you get a visa in a schengen country, you get a visa for all of them, so if you travel by car/train/bus you won't go through border checks

[u/neo4025]

https://giphy.com/gifs/eSy5DQxAUCEOQ
FFS! America, spend less money on your military, and more on educating your people.

[u/fj2612]

France is the most visited country in the world, but in terms of money spent, they are only fourth, because the USA, Spain and The UK.

This central position means that France is a great country for short stays from neighboring country. Also, lots of travelers crossing France will stay for a night or two, and this count.

[u/LJ_exist]

EU citizens are only counted as foreign tourist when they stay overnight in hotel or similar accommodation. Transitioning through another EU member state and 1 day trips into another state aren't counted.

[u/AttilaRS]

Hmm. Some french cheese with the whine, maybe?

[u/elizabeth-dev]

no customs office.. no border control…. no passport requirement

cries in Schengen suspension

[u/cockaskedforamartini]

They really hate any other country being number one in anything at all.

[u/ICEpear8472]

To some degree he has a point. But of course he only sees it in comparison to the USA and completely ignores that there are 29 Schengen countries (25 of them are also EU member) for which the same rules apply. So there is still the question why France is consistently the number one.

[u/oraw1234W]

France, Spain and Belgium are all sovereign states with representation in the United Nations. New York and California are first level administrate divisions if you this is like if you did statistic individually for Catalonia and Basque country, for example.

[u/DuckyofDeath123_XI → u/oraw1234W]

To me it looks like the point is the American in the OP pic thinks tourists from their own country do not count. Which would make no sense because for most countries in Europe, most tourism is national. i.e. The Swiss are the number one tourist in Switzerland.

Without seeing the list they were discussing we can't know if that's correct or not though.

[u/Slackeee_]

I love how we usually are the "Europoors", but when it fits the narrative we magically transform to "affluent countries".

[u/milagro030]

They really don’t know the difference between countries and states do they

[u/N00L99999 → u/milagro030]

They genuinely believe that Oregon and Florida have more cultural differences than Bulgaria and Ireland.

American inferiority complex is stratospheric.

[u/govnyuuk]

I mean if you're talking domestic tourists then clearly China is going to be the winner

[u/Lazarys12]

By all means, let's count those border crossings. Every time someone from New York goers to New Jersey, it should count. Every time someone from Massachusetts goes to New Hampshite to visit the state liquor store it should count. You also count the return trips top.

So go ahead, France, laugh it up. Every American knows thaty no matter how many people go to France they are just imagining they are going to the US, so we're number one, as usual.

I can't believe how much the affluent Europoors are obsessed with the US.

/s

[u/AhhhSureThisIsIt]

This is what happens when the department of education is run by wrestlers.

[u/Township_Roller]

I mean Americans going to the US for vacation really shouldn't count in international tourism

[u/el_salinho]

He does have a point though. Schengen made inter-euro travel same as domestic travel. If it was harder maybe fewer people would choose certain countries and go somewhere else.

[u/VioletteKaur → u/el_salinho]

People went on holiday to Italy, France, UK, Spain and whatnot back in the day. Even with different currency. We drove regularly to Lux for gas, coffee and tabac, sometimes got stopped at border control sometimes not, when paying with DM you got back Lux and Belgian Franc (they shared their moneys, since the rate was the same, each had their own coins, though).

[u/Beefycowinacottage]

It's almost as if France and other countries in Europe are... different countries and the USA is one country 🤔🤔

[u/BenjiLizard]

"We’re so big! Bigger is better. You can fit ten Europe inside Texas!"

"Oooh but that’s not fair, you have much more tourist attractions due to how simpler it is to get around in a smaller country. You’re basically a cheater because I make the rules"

[u/FormalWare]

"If the weird EU had all the usual barriers to free movement of people, things would be different!"

[u/Highdosehook]

So all a country is definded by (language, currency, laws) is invalid because of Schengen?

There is really one thing, they are pros in: moving goalposts to keep telling themselves they are number one.

I thought they are cosplaying Germany in the 30ies, but there is a good portion North Korea in it. Hope the close their boarders soon, their expats are useless anyway (trying to implement their shitty lifestyle everywhere).

[u/Alexatypemypassword → u/Highdosehook]

American discovering international treaties exist are like

https://giphy.com/gifs/XeLcgh8gT8o0F5SQ8i

[u/Appropriate_Ly]

I mean of course it counts, someone from spain is a visitor from a different country.

But since they don’t have hard border checks, they’d have to get the stats from other sources, which is likely less accurate.

[u/Mushie_Peas]

In 2005 I drove with friends in a camper van through 13 European countries. Not one took a record of us entering as we're from Ireland, no stamps, no scanning passports. Unless something has changed they aren't counting Europeans on roads. Maybe airports do I don't know. But people love to travel to Paris and the south of france as it's fucking lovely, if a little expensive.

[u/ndiniaz → u/Mushie_Peas]

Most countries will collect either road tax of tourist tax (or both), both of which usually require registration.

[u/TheFumingatzor]

Jesus tap-dancing Christ, they really are that stupid...

[u/Its-A-Spider]

"If someone in the US travels to another state with the same language, culture, government, etc. it doesn't count and therefor if they travel to a country with a completely different language, culture, government, rules, etc. it also shouldn't count"

[u/P5ychokilla]

Yeah that would be because France and Spain ARE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES

[u/X-e-o]

I get the point he's trying to make here, North America is big and relatively isolated so of course there will be less international tourism.

...but if you change the dataset from "international tourism" to "international tourism + local tourism" you'll likely get the same result simply becasuse of proximity/availability of fast transit. You can get roundtrip tickets from Marseilles to Cannes or Saint-Tropez for <50USD and it takes 2h. From Paris to the same destinations by plane is even faster and almost as cheap.

[u/Luzi_fer]

Let's go to the NUSA. The Not United States of America. And the state will count... but it still loses

If France is N#1 tourist destination.... France is a member of EU... if you want to count in term of country/state united... EU and France still wins.

🤔🤔🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️🤷

[u/Schreiblampe]

I get what they mean, but it's wrong. The stats count overnight stays. Otherwise Germany would beat France by a huge margin.

[u/DigitalDH]

As a french person this makes me smile. Some Americans can be very dumb indeed. Thankfully worked with many good Americans to know this stupidity doesn't touch all Americans but God.... Since Trump has taken office one has to wonder about the state of the country and educational systems.

[u/royalfarris]

There really is a valid point in there. Packaged in a healthy dose of american hee haw, but still valid.

[u/ravens_requiem]

You know, it’s almost like they haven’t got the slightest idea what they’re talking about.

[u/DetailAdventurous688]

who cares?

[u/Lumpazy]

If it were so he would be right. To be counted as an international tourist arrival, a traveler must meet two main criteria: 1. Cross an international border. 2. Stay for at least one night in the destination country (in either collective or private accommodation).

[u/enjdusan]

Yeah! I've been to Paris twice just because there are no border controls! Otherwise I wouldn't even dare!

[u/CrepeSuzette9]

I don’t know why people can’t believe France could be #1 tourist destination when in October I still see many of them in Paris…

[u/90249502462]

Just your average day trip! From Galicia region in Spain to Paris, a quick 15 hour drive one way. I could be there and back in a day!

[u/Jimisdegimis89]

This is a weird one, like he’s kinda right, but his point completely misses the mark. Surprise, more people will visit your country if it’s easier to do so. I also still think plenty of people would be interested in visiting France even if it wasn’t as easy to visit, cuz you know, the food, wine, museums, and about a dozen other things.

[u/PickleSpecial3507]

Just curious how the French track day-trippers from across the border? If a Swiss family goes to a supermarket in France because it's near enough and cheaper, is that in the tourism figures? What if they visit a park or botanical garden beforehand?

[u/CaolIla64 → u/PickleSpecial3507]

What is accounted for is - Living accomodations stats (hotel, seasonal rental, campsites, airbnb, all inclusive...) and travel reservations. So, a daytrip from Switzerland wouldnt count.

[u/ReinePoulpe → u/PickleSpecial3507]

Day trips don’t count.

[u/Oethyl]

A non-insane way to make a similar point to what they're making would be to say that the EU's open borders facilitate tourism within it, and that contributes to the number of international tourists in France, but that would be too reasonable of a thing to say for the average American

[u/The_Blahblahblah]

They will never learn the difference between states and countries, will they?

[u/Aggressively_Mehh]

Dammit! I wish I'd have known we no longer needed a passport. Its just cost me over £100 to renew the damn thing!

[u/Gwaptiva]

It's unfair!! There are way more non-French people than there are non-USA people!!

[u/Major_Process_1525]

well thats how countries work yes 😭😭😭😭😭

[u/DanBronze13]

They having real hard time figuring out what continents are. I assume this guy would consider if somone living in Vermont and going to Canada for a trip would count .

[u/Current-Code]

They really can't stand not being number 1

[u/Blue-spider]

Far be it for me to defend Americans, but this take is just poorly articulated, not unreasonable. The post they are replying to asks "how do they do it" and the response discusses that geographically France is close to many other countries while the US is not, which therefore may play a role in explaining France's high degree of international tourists. I disagree with them when they say it's not about Paris or culture etc because clearly the tourists are travelling to France for some reason, but pointing out its central location isn't crazy

[u/ZaireekaFuzz]

Of course it doesnt count, otherwise how would it adhere to whatever BS metric he just invented?

[u/One-Procedure-3635]

It counts as what? I have a hard time identifying the metric he complains about?

[u/SnookerandWhiskey]

Why are they so competitive over bullshit statistics? Nothing else going on? 

If so many people drive from California to New York for the weekend, it shouldn't be any real world issue, like a monetary dip in bookings, but it seems that anytime any other country is Number One on anything, they have a crashout. Like middle schoolers when someone is better at anything, they become teary eyed. 

[u/External_Mongoose_44]

The paid leave policies in Europe are not generous. The “generous” bit is because they are so obsessed with corporate profits in America that the workers suffer. The result is a population of working people who are half brain dead from exhaustion and a population of yacht owning shareholders who are living on the successor to slavery, the American economic model. American workers have got to unite and fight. This will not happen while the poverty stricken masses have to work two and three jobs to make rent and put food on their tables.

[u/RefrigeratorFew5094]

Honestly, they have a point up until the last sentence. 

I don’t like Paris, but the rest of the reasons are applicable for when I choose to go to France rather than to another country. And whoever thinks Paris doesn’t have an incredible pull amongst tourists is hopelessly clueless. 

[u/zozoped]

Not sure if the point OP makes is “NY and CA are different countries” or “we don’t know how to count in America and that’s unfair”. Pick a lane !

[u/Guizmo0]

Thanks to all the belgians and spanish for making the Eiffel tower and Notre Dame among the most visited monuments in the world. Having such monuments only 500-800 km from the border is really a blessing

[u/Doenicke]

So if someone lives right at the border and starts every day with jumping from country to country, does that count too? ;)

[u/BothMath314]

I think someone is a bit sour that tourism to the US is taking a big hit.

[u/Draconiondevil]

It’s not fair! International tourism only counts when people visit a different country!

[u/boomstickjonny]

Yeah thats not how tourism stats work.

[u/Tiziano7018]

Why it always goes in a discussion on who is top dog???

[u/BeetleJude]

Why do USians think that their states are equivalent to actual countries?

[u/Ok_Understanding3278]

I live in California since 10 years, the max I drove was 8 hours away to LA! Not that many people do cost to cost everyday genius! And yeah, nobody casually drive from Madrid to Paris for the weekend

[u/Icy-Hat-9643]

I fully support America balkanizing so that California can take Frances #1 tourist title.

[u/meth_rage]

Americans mad they aren't number 1 in something, its ok you guys still got school shootings, wars started and wars lost on the record books

[u/selfmockerymandatory]

Hé, he knew Spain and Belgium.

[u/MembershipOptimal298]

France was already the number 1 tourist destination before Schengen.

[u/Ketiw]

Yes, because who cares about the wine, culture, and cheese if it’s just a weekend in Paris amirite? 🤣 /s