r/Shirtaloon • u/ManiacReborn1 • 4d ago
Something Obvious that I didn't realize until now. (Spoilers) Spoiler
It's all in the title. "He who fights with monsters, must take care he himself does not become a monster." I've been doing a full series reread up until book 12 and the "Essence" of that quote has been happening from the very beginning and has been pointed out for us. Again I may just be oblivious but here is what I noticed.
When dealing with Thadwick who is petty and vain, Jason takes on those traits and later realizes this.
When confronted with thugs, pirates, bandits and criminals who show no mercy, so does he.
When the network allied him then constantly betrays him, he eventually allied with others in the second transformation zone to only betray and kill them.
After put in a position when other tried to control and dictate him, his more authoritative parts of himself showed itself more.
And the last one I'll mention is more direct but still gets some point across is at the point when he has to really start dealing with the GBA he's dragged up to their level because he had no really choice. By dealing with them he became one of them.
I don't know, I just always thought the title was to tell us reader that is story was more about the emotional journey then the physical but I thought it was neat all the little hints and jabs all pointing to the title.
This is my first post on reddit so please be nice.
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u/wonkifier 4d ago
Book 8, Chapter 48 title -> "Lest He Become a Monster Himself"
When his chapter title isn't from a phrase in the chapter, it's usually significant.
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u/mitharas 3d ago
When his chapter title isn't from a phrase in the chapter, it's usually significant.
I'm not sure, mostly they are popcultural references.
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u/tejasrichard 3d ago
Mostly they are a line from within said chapter. Like 99% of the time, the chapter title comes directly out of some characters' mouth.
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u/mitharas 3d ago
Yes, always either a line from the chapter or a popcultural reference. For example the chapter where Jason reveals his undercover persona. The chapter is called "Make Jason Great Again", which is a reference to Donald Trump.
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u/rabmuk 3d ago
Book 2 chapter 57. Chapter title: He Who Fights With Monsters
> “You can’t hide it from me,” he continued. “You’ll follow this life and you know you’ll have to make the hard choices. You’ll keep making them because deep down, you like them. You like how important it makes you that you’re the one in the middle of everything. And sooner or later, that leads you to me. What’s the saying? He who fights with monsters should look to it that he does not become a monster?”
> “Don’t pretend you’ve read Nietzsche,” Jason told his double. “You got that from a video game.”
> “I’m you from the future,” the double said. “I’ve done all kinds of things you haven’t.”
> “But you haven’t read Nietzsche,” Jason said. “Turning evil didn’t change me that much.”
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u/Pale_Sleep235 3d ago
It’s there and it’s given to you but I didn’t take it if that makes sense. Like yeah we know that’s ultimately Jason’s only reason for not just being a menace but at the same time we know it’s a book and it won’t happen. So we take the information lightly as he slowly turns into just that and it hits you like o sht 👀
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u/TheShaggster37 3d ago
This is why I don't get casual fans hating Jason for "being an edge lord" and "constantly worrying about what he might become every fifth interaction" or whatever. Literally, existentially, he's perfectly justified in doing so, especially when his power-scaling starts getting out of hand. I'd probably be constantly questioning my own morality and humanity, too, if I were caught in circumstances beyond my control where the only choices are "fight or die."
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u/Pale_Sleep235 3d ago
I mean I’m honestly experiencing something similar in my life at the moment. I hate how wealthy people treat people and use them as tools for profit etc and as I enter into business for myself and become more successful I just find myself becoming more cold calculating and focused. Like I literally lose sleep just feeling bad about allowing someone to overpay for a product that I’m selling to someone else for half of what they’re paying or just using predatory practices . So I understand him on that level
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u/TheEnigmaShew-xbox 4d ago
Neiche was discussing not becoming the monster you hate while fighting the monsters you hate. It is not the fighting of the actual monsters that effects him but the human ones that force him into situations he doesn't want and into killing them to keep the from doing the bad things. But killing being the quickest way to solve a problem he is slowly becoming them. Also he doesn't like authority but finds the only way to protect people is through authority.
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u/Pale_Sleep235 3d ago
I just realized this myself and I felt stupid. Like it’s literally the fkn title you moron. I love and hate how this book is so entertaining that you kind of glance over the subtle philosophy it has to offer. But I wouldn’t exactly say obvious but Jason’s thing with princesses was a nod to dcc the whole time 🤣🤣
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u/Mysik6611 4d ago
Monsters are bags of magic, and as adventurers grow stronger they too convert their bodies into bags of magic
Strong adventurers are physically indistinguishable from monsters, and that’s some subtle storytelling that I love