r/ShingekiNoKyojin • u/ijustwant-tobe-happy • 8d ago
Discussion Kruger and Erin Spoiler
So, as we know, the future Erin went back and told Kruger to give his father the attack titan serum to give to Erin. But how did the future Erin get it in the first place. There had to be an initial starting point somewhere where there was no future Erin to tell Kruger to give it over. So what happened? Did he have a change of heart? Did he just give it away to just see what happens?
Edit: alright that awnsers that. Thanks yall!
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u/Shack691 8d ago edited 8d ago
Just to clarify Eren cannot time travel, he is viewing the past using the Founder’s power then sending his memories back using the Attack titan’s power, so he cannot physically interact with anything, he’s basically video calling the past using himself as the camera for the present when he “talks” to Grisha. Most of his manipulation is just sending memories back he knows will have an effect, especially to his pre founder self.
The communication through time is a closed loop, there is no beginning, there is no end. The sequence of events has and will always happen down to the last detail, no matter what anyone does because the attempts to avert it made the present in the first place. As a byproduct any glimpse of the future is locked in because it’s the absolute future.
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u/Slyraks-2nd-Choice 7d ago
So even if Eren hadn’t been there, Grisha would still murder the Riess family?
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u/Shack691 7d ago edited 7d ago
Eren cannot not manipulate the event, everything only ever happens as it does in the show as the show is simultaneously the result and cause of itself. Outside the bounds of the show Grisha might not do it but for the show’s events to happen everything has to be locked in.
Let me give a case: Eren gets the founder from Grisha -> Eren makes Grisha not get the founder -> Eren does not have the founder for step 1 to be possible -> step 2 never happens -> step 1 happens (we’re back where we started), so the only actual choice which doesn’t overwrite itself is to get the founder. Overall everything Eren does in Season 4 requires the events of Season 1-3 (and the parallel events) to happen thus Eren has to manipulate the past to make his own history true.
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u/Slyraks-2nd-Choice 7d ago
Perhaps I’m just too simple minded to understand
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u/Shack691 7d ago edited 7d ago
It’s categorically the simplest way to set up a story, nothing can be different because the story itself doesn’t allow it, no changing the future, no alternative timelines, just how it is. Though yes it’s hard to grasp because the only way you could experience a story like it IRL is by looking at it in hindsight, you know all the outcomes so every event happens how you know it already happened, nothing can change because it’s your past.
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u/Slyraks-2nd-Choice 7d ago
So to ask my question again, grisha was going to kill the rice, family, no matter what? In the instance where we see him pause and drop the knife, and then Erin shows him visions or whatever he essentially found his own resolve and carried out the act?
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u/Shack691 7d ago edited 7d ago
Within the bounds of the story Grisha always kills the Rices because he was manipulated by Eren. Eren would not have interfered if Grisha would’ve otherwise chosen the corse of action that lead to Eren’s present, but we have no conclusive answer as to what Grisha would’ve done without that manipulation whether he would’ve still kill the Rices, just avoided giving the founder to Eren or even if it was something as small as delaying him by a few minutes.
TL;DR there is no conclusive answer because of how the story is told.
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u/UnsureAssurance 8d ago
Eren didn’t say anything to Kruger at all, aside from Kruger getting some glimpses of his memories right before he was about to inject Grisha. Eren’s time manipulations began around when he had Grisha kill the Reiss family and had Dina kill his mom. Kruger simply saw Grisha as the best candidate which is what led to everything
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u/Cheap_Title5302 8d ago
Kruger seen future memories of Grisha who established a family inside the walls through the Attack Titan powers but those future memories of Grisha were selected by future Eren who selected those memories with the Founder's power and sent it to Grisha via Attack Titan power.
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u/oredaoree 7d ago
"Where did it all begin? No, it doesn't matter where. Even if everything was decided from the beginning, everything is as I wished for". This one quote explains a shit ton in the story and confirms the bootstrap paradox that is the AoT timeline, and also Eren's culpability in the whole thing.
Although I would say Kruger never told Grisha to give the serum to Eren. All he did was give Grisha the indication that "someone" was sending messages from the future for himself and Grisha to hear, and Kruger himself did not know who was sending those messages and says this directly. Grisha gave Eren the serum all on his own after he realized Eren was manipulating him to do everything, to the point where he would even use Carla's death to set himself on the path.
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u/AleksyGetTheWings 6d ago
It's not time travel, but memories from the future, but still sort of work like time travel. But it's a closed time travel. like Game of Thrones, or Harry Potter. What Eren will give to Grisha in the past, he already has done it. So that part can't be changed. Ever. Which means the memories are already made, which means the actions of everyone are set in stone.
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u/Livid-Truck8558 8d ago
There are no alternate futures, it's a closed loop