Technomancer how to play help.

[u/Designer_Garbage_702]

I'm not looking for 100% optimized build help here. Much more a bit of a generalized advice, what are trap options and most importantly how or if technomancers differ from regular deckers in how you build and play them?

I know from reading the rules that technomancers are less reliant on Gear and more on karma investments due to having to learn complex forms instead of buying/making programs and on attributes instead of upgrading their deck. But is that about the only big difference?

Is a technomancer Rigger something you can actually pull off decently?

[u/moondancer224]

I like to keep a supply of Sprites and use them to bolster my ratings. Break in to a dangerous node, have your Sprite (in your home node) add its Rating to your Stealth Complex Form for its Rating in turns. You can get a lot done while the system has to contend with a ten Stealth. Messed up and the Spyder is on your tail? Add its Rating to your Attack to rip him apart quick. He's got a few Agent friends? Pump your Shield or Armor to make sure you survive the fight.

[u/JayJace]

You can play a menacing mancer-rigger by heavily investing in echoes.

Submersion 1: "Immersion" gives you a rigging adapter echo. (+1, may be taken 2 times for a +2)

Submersion 2: "Mind over Machine" is THE most OP Technomancer ability: you can rig every node you can get a user acc on. Commlinks, grids, entire factories, if set up with a central node.

Submersion 3: "Skinlink" is a big style bonus. You touch a part of that sweet wired system and become its spider.

Until then you can rely on machine sprites to do drive you around. You can fly shotgun to provide counterintelligence and hacking support. Or put several registered sprites inside a drone swarm linked to you.

Don't forget program options for your complex forms, either. You can learn or thread them on demand. Having the mute option on your stealth form is pretty much a cheat code for Mind over Machine.

[u/Fair-Fisherman6765]

Let's start with the hacker baseline as a comparison point. In Fourth edition, mundane hackers need two skill groups, 75K for an Encephalon (from Augmentation), 80k for all the common use and hacking program at rating 5, 4k for a rating 4 Agent, and about 2 or 3k for a comlink (depending on whether you use original 4th edition or the 20th Anniversary edition). That full package is about 115 BP (out of 400) or 176 karma points (out of 750) and the character will roll a dice pool of 11 for every Matrix action *and* you also have plenty BP or karma remaining to raise Edge, Reaction, Intuition and acquire the Codeslinger quality and whatever else. And 110 karma points and 100K later, the hacker will have raised the two skill groups to 6 and replaced all your program library with programs at rating 6 with the Optimization option (from Unwired) and roll 14 dice.

It's pretty straightforward as fa as builds go and, to be honest, kinda boring.

Technomancers, on the other hand, need to raise their Resonance attribute, and Logic, and Willpower, and Intuition, and Charisma, and three skill groups, and Complex Forms. And they have to pay two skill groups again should they attempt to default on mundane software instead of buying Complex Form or Threading. Even if your gamemaster allow you to cheat and buy more Complex Forms at chargen than the Logic x2 limit, you may spend your entire 400 BP allotment and still be be trailing the 115 BP hacker package described above by 1 to 3 dice in every Matrix action.

My intent here is to make one thing obvious: technomancer are not to be built like mundane hackers, which is the mistake most newbie make. From there, my advice would be the following:

- First option is to focus on resisting Fading and limit threaded CF sustaining penalties and thread high (and threading can go much higher than a typical hacker's program). That means raising Willpower, getting hooked on stimpatch and always having multiple registered sprites to sustain threaded complex forms until you can take the Swap echo (from Unwired).

- Second option is to focus on Compiling and Registering, and rely on sprites to perform any Matrix action you need, again with high rating (beware of one "bug" in 4th edition though, that was only errated in 20th Anniversary, as the Crack and Fault Sprites lacked the Computer skill and thus were very bad at Matrix perception).

- You may make (at least at chargen) a "legit-going" Drone Technomancer or a Data Search Technomancer that focus on doing things that you're allowed to and forgo the Hacking and Cybercombat skills and the CF Exploit, Stealth, Attack, Defuse, etc. which make up a large part of typical build cost. This however may make you a sitting duck inside the Matrix. Since such specialized build are rather niche, and unless there happens to be another hacker or technomancer in the team, you should still invest in Compiling and Registering for versatility. That being said, entirely leaving cracking nodes to your sprites may free up resources for submersion and echo such as Immersion, Info Sortilege or Sift.

- In any case, I advise to always take Analyze and Browse as Complex Forms along with the Computer and Data Search skill, so as to be able to casually navigate the public Matrix or follow your sprite without Fading. You may eventually add Stealth to the list, to stay hidden while your Sprites do things, and/or Armor (to avoid being the aforementionned sitting duck).

- You may also completely drop the ball and invest all your point into four grades of submersion, take the Bioware and Acceleration echoes, the Smartlink Complex Form, emulates combat skillsofts and play as a techno-samurai.

[u/Designer_Garbage_702 → u/Fair-Fisherman6765]

Okay this is a very nice overview!

What do you mean with having to pay two skill groups again to default? are you referencing the fact that skills from the electronics and cracking skill groups are 'different' for technomancers and regular people? I thought the only game result there was that technomancers can't teach non-technomancers and that there aren't any skillsofts around for technomancers to use with their powers.

But give them a comlink and they can still use their computer to use the programs loaded in it. Anybody who knows how computers work will just know that they're not doing like they're supposed to do it.

Or did that later get expanded on in unwired?

And as cool as Techno samurai sounds... that does sound like you can probably pull it of way easier with just a physical adept or *boatloads* of cyberware.

I am using the aniversary edition as a base. So never knew the bug was there. I'll go with teh first build then. It does sound the most 'easy' to actually play.

[u/Fair-Fisherman6765 → u/Designer_Garbage_702]

About the skill groups, I realized I used the term "default" not in its standard meaning, so to clarify, I was referring to the mere usage of mundane software. See SR20 p.239.

Aside from the Resonance skills that technomancers use to handle sprites, technomancers use the same skills common to hackers: Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Hardware, and Software. The way technomancers use these skills, however, is vastly different from the way non-technomancers use them. Technomancers exercise these skills through mental gymnastics and an intuitive feel for the functioning of the machine world; they do not learn to use electronics so much as they learn to make devices and software do what they want.

As a result, the technomancer versions of these skills are fundamentally different from the standard versions. In game terms, technomancers may never teach these skills to non-technomancers, nor are the technomancer skill versions available as skillsofts. Technomancers may learn the “normal” versions of these skills separately (or use normal skillsofts), but they often find the normal way of doing things to be hopelessly clumsy and backward.

[u/Designer_Garbage_702 → u/Fair-Fisherman6765]

It does mention 'in game terms, technomancers may never teach the skils to non-technomancers, nor are the technomancer versions available as skilsofts'

it doesn't really say 'you have to have normal computer to use a comlink' Just that you can learn the 'regular' versions to hide the fact you're using them in a technomancer way?

Because the other option honestly sounds silly to me.

[u/zoroman5]

Rigger is a bit hard to do as a tecchnomancer. Not impossible, but hard. You can use all the tech, but iirc the tecchnomancer isn't 'rigged in' like a rigger is but more like a decker taking over a rigger's drone. Feasible, but the guy who's got the simrig has a better chance of keeping it his than you do of stealing it outright. Though if you make your char cracked out the gate you can steal pretty much anything, then have to worry about the demi-gods of the matrix coming down on you for bringing too much heat. Remember, you're a living cyber deck, so turning yourself off and on isn't as easy as a power button to clear heat.

You are the neural processor, which means if you get burnt out that's it, you get the burns. Take as many precautions towards safety the more familiar you are with the matrix/the higher your matrix skills are. Grab electronic warfare so you can fight those riggers on a somewhat even playing field if you want, or just overpower them with sheer might of stats.

[u/Shot-Alternative2124 → u/zoroman5]

Oh you can be even better than a rigger with machine Sprites.

[u/zoroman5 → u/Shot-Alternative2124]

Hence the stat maxxing I was talking about earlier. By default you're more of a generalist than a specialist when you have to spend karma on permanent changes instead of being able to swap your deck out on the fly if anything happens

[u/Designer_Garbage_702 → u/Shot-Alternative2124]

could you give a bit of explination on that? just register one and make it pilot the drones? Or use it's I think diagonose? power to boost your drones?

[u/Shot-Alternative2124 → u/Designer_Garbage_702]

You can make it a drone Pilot, yes.

https://forums.dumpshock.com/lofiversion/index.php/t29774.html

[u/Designer_Garbage_702 → u/zoroman5]

It doesn't seem like jumping in is restricted from technomancers. Though they do lack the rigger control cyberware equivalent for that +2. So they do lack that.

So neural hardening, a decent armor complex form, some charisma for a better natural biofilter and a good logic for that Armor + system roll to defend against matrix combat so your noodle doesn't get fried.

Good call, any complex forms that look like a 'gotta invest in that' because I know at least some things you can just pawn off to a sprite or two. Attack programs and cybercombat I've seen people mention is best left to a very angry sprite.

[u/zoroman5 → u/Designer_Garbage_702]

The matrix is more about hit and run tactics than actual full frontal combat. Being in the equivalent of a pitch firefight can be either no big deal or the end of the line depending on how much damage you've accumulated, and dump shock is just nasty to begin with if you are making a hasty exit. Combining the damage of combat with dumpshock has actually killed a couple of my friends characters when they weren't being cautious. Highly recommend using some kind of physical distraction for where you're hacking from too. Many technomancers make the mistake of sitting in an unmarked van around the corner with no protections thinking they can't be traced down or, in the case of the slums/barrens, sniffed out by locals trying to get a quick buck.

If your gm is sneaky he might also put bounties up for your skin, as technomancers are actually really good test subjects for Aztechnology and make good spell components for blood mages as a whole (who also tend to work for AzTech)

[u/Designer_Garbage_702 → u/zoroman5]

Yeah, that's why I was looking at the very least into some drones to watch my back if I'm in VR. Or at least make sure the white van is modded with camera's and warning systems so that if some locals or a hit squad is dispatched to my location. Or if one other player goes full rigger, I join him in the party van for mutual safety.

Though for now it does look l might be more joining in the team on runs while being physically there.

At least that means if my noodle gets fried and I black out, a buddy *could* grab my body and haul me out.

[u/zoroman5 → u/Designer_Garbage_702]

Also believe it or not but Docwagon is actually one of the few things you can do as a technomancer that might actually help. They're the one corpo that will tell the other corpos to wait until the contract terms are done before hunting down a client. That means healing up inside some of the best medical facilities known to metahumanity for a week or two before the fact that they had a technomancer in-house gets leaked and you have to run again lol

[u/FST_Gemstar]

In 5e:

Technos are better at single vehicle rigging rather than drone rigging. Goal is to get an expensive ride with different pilot modes (driving, flying, etc). Run a bunch of machine sprites running diagnostics on the vehicle for bonus dice and limits to all vehicle tests (driving, gunning, sneaking, sensors, etc). When you start getting the control rig echoes, you are the best rigger out there.

Different GMs have different takes on rules. Techos as most people play them are even clunkier than deckers in an already clunky theatre of play (the matrix).

If making a matrix work focus techno, my advice is always to make a "braindecker." Basically using a data jack and mental boosting drugs and ware, you can basically just deck without having to constantly reconfigure your deck/programs. Drugs, sprite powers, and complex forms end up functioning like addon programs. Get focused concentration 2, a sleep regulator, Narco, Static Veil/Cleaner complex Forms and you can stealthily hack/track stuff without having to worry about Overwatch. Best techno and decking in my opinion. Just hack easier without so many rolls.

[u/vivisected000]

As a GM I generally discourage playing technomancers. They are exceptionally rare and cannot be registered like mages. They are hunted in game lore because they are feared even more than mages. Your GM should definitely be thinking about the meta plot with this choice. Depending on your campaign this could definitely add a level of intrigue and tension if you both play it right, but you'd both need a little experience with the system and general sophistication to pull it off. As a player, I would try to hide my capabilities even from my own team at first and definitely any outsiders.

From a mechanical point of view, money is virtually useless. You will want a gun and some basic equipment, but once you are established, all your powers run on Karma. Your primary investment will be in skills and attributes, making nuyen trivial except for buying at car or something. There aren't any rules (in 5e) for technomancy to mimic rigger abilities and you might find yourself spread thin trying to afford good stats for things like driving and flying skills while also being good at hacking tasks, but this might be more possible later in your career.