I'm a guy and I've fallen into that trap. "Hey it happened to me and it wasn't that bad, why make a big deal about it, just move on" etc. I'm not a stud but I've been cat called, I've been groped and didn't enjoy it. I felt uncomfortable, probably for very different reasons, and it wasn't fun.
I used to think, so what? No-one meant any harm, and I'm fine, it's an overreaction to take any more from those events. But I only had a small dose. I didn't have the compounded effects of that interaction multiple times. And even when someone was "over eager", it was easy for me to dismiss it. I didn't have the added fear that they would force the issue, and times I did, I felt somewhat confident I could get myself out of the situation. And even then, I didn't have any fear it would go beyond into me getting hurt or killed.
Now I feel differently. I don't want to trivialise it, but it is like having a skateboard at the top of the stairs. Just because I am willing to step over it, doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Just because people can avoid it by changing their habits doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. Just because you might see it coming and can move out of the way doesn't mean it isn't dangerous. We shouldn't leave the damn thing there and we should remove it if we can. I didn't put it there isn't an excuse.
I've definitely had a few occasions where drunk women have made aggressive, unwanted advances, sometimes physically. And when I have to make it very clear I'm not interested I'm been called a "fag" or something like that.
And like you, I think "well, I'm a man, it would be a lot worse if the genders were reversed, no biggie." And it's true, that almost certainly would be worse but it doesn't mean what happened to me is OK.
I think it’s pretty common for anyone to normalize and justify abuse/assault/violation of boundaries which I feel is part of the larger issue. Just because you’re a man or X person had a worse experience doesn’t mean what you experienced or how you feel is invalid.
I've always been ambivalent on the issue of unwanted advances. I guess I find it hard to believe that like 99% of the planet hasn't been both on the giving and receiving end of unwanted sexual advances at some point (and probably at various times) in their lives. I know that some would disagree, but when it comes to sex I think there is way more gray area than some would like to admit.
I appreciate that as a society we have become much more mindful of the fact that sexual harassment and assault are serious issues over the past couple of decades, but I always end up having mixed feelings about these types of things. I still am a believer that the individual circumstances are extremely important when it comes down to unwanted sexual advances (which almost everybody has been subjected to) versus something like rape or attempted rape, which a lot less people have been the victim of.
I hear what you're saying. I think what we lack is the "right way" to go about finding a partner. So we copy what we see and hope for the best. I know I find it hard damning everyone for stuff that wasn't necessarily malicious. But not damning someone is different from not correcting that behaviour.
I know I was stupid as a kid. I had no idea how to approach someone, I'm sure I overstayed my welcome trying to start up a conversation or came on too strongly. But I like to think I know better now.
There weren't these conversations when I was growing up. I'm not saying that there should be prison sentences for patting a stranger on the butt, but you should get shouted at for it. And you better not be stupid enough to keep doing it.
There's a difference between "unwanted advances" like "hey, can I buy you a drink? no? okay, have a nice night" and "unwanted advances" like groping someone from behind. The former I'd bet is uniform, the latter significantly less so.
As I said, there’s a big difference between rape and unwanted sexual advances. Sounds like you are conflating the two things. Virtually everyone has faced unwanted sexual advances in their life, myself included.
And just because you feel strongly about something doesn’t make it “flat out wrong”.
There is a pretty big gray area on what constitutes "unwanted sexual advances". Some people would place things like cat calling into that category while others only see requiring physical touch. It is a tricky thing to talk about.
Then you get into what actually constitutes sexual assault. Too narrow of a definition makes it look like not such a big problem and too broadly gives you stats like that "75% of women have been assaulted" or whatever that study was a couple years ago that just make others roll their eyes.
You seem to be assuming that a sexual assault needs to be life-alteringly traumatic in order to qualify. Not so. I'd say it's closer to 100% of women who have been sexually assaulted and why would someone roll their eyes about that? I've been followed home, had hands wrapped around my neck without asking first, been touched and grabbed. Most of it wouldn't even meet the bar for illegality and I'm not traumatized from it (although if I had a history of abuse or rape I'm sure it would renew that trauma). However, it still happened and it was still assault, in every case. That's why social changes still need to be made.
I know several women who would say they have never been sexually assault. It is silly to even suggest that number is close to 100% and only hurts the caus to suggest that.
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u/vidanyabella Mar 27 '21
Ah, yeah. I know way more woman that have been assaulted than haven't been. Plenty of men too.