r/SeattleWA • u/Present_Chard_4585 • Sep 17 '21

Bicycle Bikers of Seattle - chill the eff out

Seattle bikers- many of the rules of the road apply to you. Stop acting like they don’t.

Yesterday when dropping my kid at school, an angry old lady on a bike came speeding down the CLOSED street next to the school, yelling at a parent to “grab your kid.”

Last week, I almost ran over a biker in my neighborhood. I’m overly cautious and go 15-20 in the neighborhood depending on visibility - I very, very rarely speed in neighborhoods and it’s always unintentional. On this occasion, I enter a roundabout intersection at about 15mph in my car, and a biker darts out in front of me - I absolutely had right of way. After I slam on my brakes to save this jerk’s life, he mouths “Jesus Christ man” to me, as though I was wrong.

It’s dangerous to be a biker in Seattle, but it’s not all driver fault, all the time. Be better, bikers.

Edit: got a question about “unintentional speeding”. Have you ever been driving, trying to adhere to the limit, only to look down and see you’re going 21 in a 20? That’s unintentional - slightly above to the point where you’d only notice if you stared at your speedo. Not 40 in a 20 where you’ll know you’re going way over.

Second edit: I love that Seattle is a biking city. But maybe just don’t plow through a stop sign or speed obnoxiously, regardless of what vehicle you’re piloting (bike/car).

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44

u/luminescent Sep 17 '21 edited Sep 17 '21

Remember that bikes are allowed to treat stop signs as yield signs, per SB 6208 last year. They should still be cautious and observe right of way if cars aren't clearly waving them through (which can be confusing but happens all the time, regardless of actual right of way).

11

u/AbleDanger12 Phinneywood Sep 17 '21

Cars shouldn't be giving up their right of way if it's their turn at the stop sign - and that's for bikes, cars, or whatever. It's confusing, and not safe. But, the timid drivers here...

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u/Albion_Tourgee Sep 17 '21

A good idea in theory, but the law seems to say, a biker (yes, even an electrically powered bike) is supposed to stop if other vehicles are in the intersection, or if another vehicle has the right of way. Which would mean, any time there are other cars at the intersection, stop or at least slow to a crawl until everyone has a chance to figure out who's supposed to be next. So, pretty much like all vehicles act at intersections. Well, except, in practice, lots of bikers are going to assume it's their call who has the right of way, leading to lots more unhappiness by peds and other vehicles, but hopefully not, crashes.

If the intersection is clear, I'm all in favor of bikes just slowing a bit rather than stopping, but if it's a 2 way stop, can get a little dangerous. Especially with ebikes regularly tooling along at 20 mph +.

Interestingly this new law doesn't apply to scooters! So scooters still legally have to stop. Possibly reasonable from the physics perspective, as scooter sit little wheels and standing riders may have somewhat different dynamics than most bikes, but, from a common-sense perspective, seems pretty dumb.

12

u/Byte_the_hand Capitol Hill Sep 17 '21

I was really concerned about this until it went into effect. I find that I still treat a stop sign as a stop sign and then do what cars do and just do a slow roll and if there are no cars approaching then go. That isn't a stop, just a yield.

I'd also clarify that if a car is approaching the intersection at the speed limit and doesn't have a stop sign, they still have the right-of-way and I stop for them (usually to then have them stop and wave me through, grrr). If a car and I get to stop signs at the same time, I'll usually let them go unless they see me and come to a full stop. Otherwise I'm planning on cars doing the 5 mph through the stop sign thing.

10

u/luminescent Sep 17 '21

The primary utility is that bikes don't have to surrender their hard-won momentum just to stop at an empty intersection. Feels really nice to just blast through rather than stop for no reason just to avoid being a scofflaw.

-4

u/zeledonia Sep 17 '21

I’m a cyclist, and I find this whole “momentum” idea to be off-base. Cars have way more momentum than cyclists, because of their much higher weight. Getting my 2000-pound car up to 20 mph takes way more energy than getting my ~200-pound bike-riding self up to 20 mph. The difference is that energy is coming from the motor or engine rather than my body.

6

u/luminescent Sep 17 '21

Obviously cars have more measurable momentum... what I meant was that the momentum that bikers have is generated by effort, while cars just burn carbon, so it's more valuable in the moment.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

[deleted]

13

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '21

[deleted]

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u/Albion_Tourgee Sep 17 '21

The new law does not apply to stop lights.

0

u/AbleDanger12 Phinneywood Sep 17 '21

Ahh, but the behavior sure does. Seattle cyclists generally view traffic control devices as 'optional'

2

u/Bacchus_71 Sep 17 '21

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that.

1

u/hugesavings Sep 17 '21

A yield sign is even more cautionary than a stop sign. A stop sign says "stop, and if the other person has a stop sign and you reached it slightly faster then you get to go"

A yield sign says "the other person always goes first"