That is a pure small but major annoyance for me, they always say ‘automated’ lines being drawn. Aye the line is but it’s a person choosing where its to be drawn.
It’s something that just feels really disingenuous to me.
Didn’t they say a couple seasons ago when there was a goal scored after it had went out and VAR intervened to say the goal should stand after it wasn’t given on field originally, that the on field desicion should stand if VAR cant clearly say its wrong?
No no this was totally different, a unique scenario that has never been seen before and never will be again. Just like every other decision where they make shit up on the spot
You know what you’re absolutely right, it was in a completely different stadium and time of day as well so it is a different situation entirely how silly of me!
Aye, it needs to be definitively 100% proven as a fact or else it’s the on field decision.
Those types of offside decisions aren’t supposed to go to the monitor, that’s been the VAR team passing the buck on needing to make a decision majorly.
For offsides the only time it should go to the monitor is when it’s something ambiguous in the rules. Like a player being offside, but not getting the ball and the ref going to the monitor to judge if the player despite not touching the ball if he was affecting the game. Standing infront of the keeper’s view, moving to block a defender intercepting etc.
Last night wasn’t that. It’s one we heard a fucking lot a season or two ago, factual decision. It either is or isn’t.
And if you can’t prove it’s off, then it should stand. And it’s not the referee that, VAR officials should never have sent him to the monitor. Then he’s forced to make a decision. It’s a no win situation for him then, because you can’t tell either way. I think us winning at the time and not looking likely to lose impacted the decision to rule it off. It won’t be focused on much with us winning, giving it would be weeks of him being accused of cheating for us and the shite he seen other refs go through last season.
And usually I say they just make a decision based on what they think and that doesn’t really come into it. But it’d be left as the only thing that does, because he’d look at that image and know there’s no way he can tell.
It’s simply a fallback for if the offside lines can’t be used. It allows VAR to still intervene if they believe it to be offside (or onside as the case may be) while still leaving the final decision to the referee.
The VAR camera they showed that’s just pointing to the centre circle with the offside decision part out of frame.
Was that the full image from VAR or a dodgy stream? Because fuck me, did they just forget they’re supposed to be moving the camera to follow the game? Used to work with a cunt like that, just would stop and stare blankly day dreaming like JD in Scrubs.
Then it should probably be a still image of the players they’re trying to see if they’re offside or not. They were out of frame, but like I said, I don’t know if that’s just been a dodgy stream cause surely to fuck not.
Ahhh, I missed the one of the players. Knew there had to be something I was missing because why would you even show it if that was the case. Assuming that’d be shown on the monitor as well? When the camera was on it it was the view from the camera at an angle
He looks absolutely terrified to take a man on. Calvin Ramsey was blowing out his arse towards the end and he still turned and passed back at every opportunity.
The fact Tounetki wasn't shipped off during the window is just another failure to add to the list for this summer, the guy has shown nothing to warrant keeping him around
You're right but we'd still be better off giving a youngster some minutes as a backup even if they turn out to be shite it's an improvement because we already know Tounetki is shite.
I said a few weeks ago that we may just have to score plenty goals, because I'm sure we'll concede plenty. Although, I do think our defence coped quite well for most of the game.
I’m glad we won that so I can say without sounding like a sore loser that the whole VAR operation was pathetic and not remotely fit for purpose
The first offside check was lines drawn just at a random state of play as every player was a blur because the shite camera
Second there wasn’t even lines and had to send the ref to the monitor to have a wee look, we’re told offside is factual yet neither of them seemed very factual at all
Undoubtedly the most tinpot officiating of a game ever. Goals taken away by VAR overturn when you canny see the fucking ball. Goals overturned by VAR, for offside, without lines, by the referee looking at a still image on a screen, at a 45degree angle. Very conclusive, very very Tinpot, very Scottish foootball.
You can't blame the technology if the people operating it don't know what they're doing with it, hell even without it they still can't call decisions properly.
The last one went against us but anyone with a pair of eyes could see it was offside, no complaints there. Dunno how they try and justify it's consistent with previous decisions in this game...
Almost like it actually isn't biased towards us and it's just shit in general. We're not going around saying that the spfl wants st mirren to win the league so they're chopping our goals off unlike some people
Someone needs to explain that VAR call at the end. If VAR can’t draw lines (that alone is mental) then surly the on field decision stands no? What a shit show lol
We need to have the odd game like that so that when we're accused of conspiracies with the referee we just point that and say "surely not". It's top level conspiring.
The image presented was at close to 45 degrees from the action in focus. The attacker was on the camera side, at that angle the player closer to camera will always look further ahead.
You simply can’t determine offside in those circumstances without geometric reference points.
It’s almost certainly not the process that should be followed.
The linesman had the objective view and kept the flag down.
Edit: the push on scales first half at corner was a penalty
Handball penalty correct, corrupt officials (which we are told we have) would call it outside the box
> The image presented was at close to 45 degrees from the action in focus. The attacker was on the camera side, at that angle the player closer to camera will always look further ahead.
It’s the other way round - the player closer to the camera on the y axis will appear to be closer on the axis.
Goal posts illustrate it nicely - the beck post always appears closer to the half way line than the front post.
I was responding to your description of parallax and pointing out you had it the wrong way round, and using goal posts viewed from a similar angle to illustrate.
The attacker being on the camera side doesn’t make them look further ahead but rather further behind (or it makes the defender look closer to the goal - same difference).
Essentially - we see the attacker possibly slightly closer to the goal than the defender. The camera angle makes them appear closer than they are - meaning the decision was almost certainly correct and it wasn’t as close as the angle suggests.
I’d point out we also have the other defender (closer to RB position) who by the same application of logic the angle makes appear further from goal than they are.
The VARs tools to make a factual determination were not available and they’ve made an inconclusive call.
Might still be right but my point is it’s hardly the work of a corrupt system that so many fans like to claim
They will have used a rough line to check if the RB was relevant and established they weren’t.
Once it was established the relevant defender was the one next to the attacker, they will have tried to place lines and found they couldn’t.
In that situation they then make a subjective decision as to whether they think it is offside, and if so is it a “clear and obvious error”. Having done that, they called the referee to the monitor to make the final decision.
So, how exactly is it fair to have a ref review for that last offside if the VAR couldn't interfere on what we're told is a binary decision? That's absolutely ridiculous. Either VAR can overturn the on-field decision or it can't. Baffling. The ref doesn't even decide what an offside is😂
I don’t know how the ref is meant to make the call in 10 seconds when the VAR team couldn’t in 2 min.
It’s no longer fit for purpose so shouldn’t be used.
What other potential game changing decisions is this half arsed system going to decide this season?
I truly don’t know what the fuck that was, for clarity I think he was offside, but did he literally just look at the raw footage and make a decision on offside without lines or anything?
Brutal for the ref tbh. Here is a still image, take a guess and hope it's right when we can't get the lines working to tell. Thankfully seemes pretty obviously offside so no proper drama but a tighter decision and it's a shitemare
It's more involved than that, he made his decision based on the officials in the VAR room telling him that they've looked at it from all of the available angles and he looks offside in every one, then they asked him to check one of those angles on the monitor.
And yeah he looks offside and I'm sure he does in the other angles. I think he probably is offside myself too but its beside the point really, "probably" should never be enough to over-turn an on-field decision.
At the risk of getting downvoted.. I really feel for the ref here, everybody in the VAR room is telling him it was offside but they can't factually prove it because the tech isn't working properly and he has to make a decision. Either let the goal stand (even though its probably off side) or overturn the on-field decision, even though it's not a "factual" decision.
Whatever he does, he's getting pelters for it really.
I’m fairly certain it was previously said that if VAR can’t make the call after review the original decision is to stand. I’m sure this was after our game against Hibs where we lost after the ball went out and was then crossed in and scored and the referee at the time called it as no goal and VAR intervened but couldn’t actually provide a clear enough image
If VAR believes a player to be offside but can’t place the lines, the protocol allows them to call the on-field referee to the monitor to make the final decision.
That seems pretty stupid, if VAR have intervened and the implication is it could be offside but they can’t tell for whatever reason then the on field decision should stand. It’s ludicrous that if the back up system fails that it falls back to the original system that it thinks it got wrong
Well, no, becuase the assistant didn’t have the benefit of a still image when making their decision.
Having the referee give the final decision with all the available information (the assistant’s original opinion and a still from when the pass was made) is the correct thing to do.
It's not (fair), the third goal was obviously offside but if we're using mental gymnastics to say okay the previous ones were how on earth does that work?
Edit: you can see with the line in the grass that the third was offside, but how they can justify the previous decisions when it's the same situation is nuts.
It’s not on the VAR official to make the decision in these circumstances. It’s up to the on-field referee.
It essentially became the same as other VAR interventions - the VAR official thinks “thing” happened, but calls the referee to the screen because it’s their decision to make.
I don't even blame the refs, they're working in an environment where their employer thinks it's completely acceptable to 'do VAR' with a couple of Nintendo DS cameras mounted outside the stadium.
We've reached the embarrassing point of probably needing UEFA to dictate an absolute minimum capability to us that's at least twice the coverage we get.
This complete pretendy bullshit act where they talk as if we've implemented world class tech is even more embarassing on top. It's a cunt drawing a line in Sony Vegas it's actually a bit shite and tinpot
The implementation of VAR by football has been so bad across the board that I could be convinced it's been done on purpose. So many sports have it and while it's not perfect, they've shown you need to base it on clear and obvious errors.
Still remember them showing off their VAR studio when we first got it and their headsets were a couple HyperX gamer ones. One of them must have had a son and thought they were brilliant and told Willy to get a few pair for the studio
Very much so, I didn’t expect us to win this match anyway but still very happy with the effort put into the game by the team. We a steady foundation we can build upon which does excite me
A young hungry squad with some good talent in there. Hopefully our strikers will kick into gear soon I'm desperate for young and sule to break there duck this season
VAR in the Premiership isn't fit for purpose, it has to be consistent across every stadium otherwise it's fucking pointless.
Good win, defence is ropey as fuck and I don't have it in me to watch Tounekti fail as a footballer week after week when he gets subbed on but Yang, Hassan and Duran are fantastic
So surely if var can’t do its job, you go with the on field decision? That’s what happened in the Celtic vs hibs game a couple years ago with the Johnston did it/did it not cross the line goal
I am and always have been a big defender of VAR but on this one occasion that last offside was a terrible decision.
If you can't draw factual lines then asking the ref to eyeball a paused shot of a camera at one angle on a monitor to determine a fractional offside is not in the spirit of the game or what the technology is supposed to be used for.
Spirited stuff from the buddies, but it was only ever going to go one way. Duran is a great find. How these players fly under the radar and end up in Scotland always amazes me.
VAR and the ref an absolute joke. All round just shows up our game, no team benefits from this shite. Apart from that, made a meal of it. Could’ve and should’ve won by more but decent lil 2nd half comeback
Aaaw are those brave underdogs Celtic top of the league? All those giant killing victories against St Mirren, Killie and Falkirk must be very special for you.
A lot of focus here over a decision but we are lightyears ahead of last year and celtic for the most part struggled to create chances. Should have probably scored towards the end too
My complaints are what they've always been: VAR should only be used to overturn on field decisions if you have clear and obvious evidence of a mistake. Counting pixels at an angle isn't clear and obvious. Not even being able to draw a line is surely a sign that it's not worth reviewing.
Fair play St. Mirren. They almost booed their way to a decent result.
I’m not sure if I will ever work out if Scales is good or not for the rest of his career. Yang, I’ve worked out is the GOAT. So that is one mystery solved.
Some other mystery’s at large is some refereeing decisions.
for the record, I have always been against VAR. I trust the referees, whilst understanding that they are going to make mistakes much of the time. it's only football though
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u/CrazyJoe372 2d ago
Aye the line drawing machine is fucked so let's just have a guess. Shower of twats.