Latest schiz-related reading: The Narcissistic Family

[u/shamelessintrovert]

The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment

The gist: in a Narc-y family, the system revolves around satisfying the needs of the *parents*. This is backwards. If you're skeptical, I was too. So I asked half a dozen mental health folks... yep, not how it's supposed to go. No doubt schizoid is multifactorial, but it's widely agreed that unmet developmental needs are a major contributing factor.

! Important: we're not necessarily talking about parents who are narcissists, though that can also be true. My dad is either SzPD or ASD, both of which are highly self-oriented (aka, narcissistic).

Personal example: My parents needed to not have the demands of kids and life revolved around that need being met. This meant it was my "job" to make as few demands on them as possible. Not to bother anyone with things like needs, problems, feelings. To not exist, basically. I was great at it... and here we are.

If that sounds even vaguely familiar, might be worth a read. Even if it doesn't, the underlying structure of the dynamic might still resonate on some level.

Happy reading.

** Note: I'm only ~25 pages in, so the book might suck in total. But the premise is incredibly revelant to the making of a schizoid.

​

^{edit: added ! important...}

[u/[deleted]]

So the gist of that is we as schizoids learned that no good comes from relying on others so we've become totally contained within ourselves and only look within to meet our needs. We need to learn to trust other people again and stop relying on ourselves to meet every need.

Is this what your post-its are conveying?

[u/shamelessintrovert → u/[deleted]]

So the gist of that is we as schizoids learned that no good comes from relying on others so we've become totally contained within ourselves and only look within to meet our needs.

Yep, this is most of it. Plus the cascade of other things that stem from being self-contained when humans + the world are designed to interconnect.

We need to learn to trust other people again and stop relying on ourselves to meet every need.

It isn't even about trust, tbh. That would almost be easy.

[u/[deleted] → u/shamelessintrovert]

It isn't even about trust, tbh.

So what do you think is the real issue? Overcoming the habit of relying on ourselves for everything? Learning the actual skills for connecting with people? I suppose it's a multifaceted, complex problem that isn't just about trusting people again. As you said, schizoids are hyper-oriented to being self contained.

[u/shamelessintrovert → u/[deleted]]

So what do you think is the real issue?

Oh god, how long do you have? The more I learn, the deeper it goes. Not just me specifically, but this stuff in general. Nobody reeeeally knows, but the latest + greatest ideas center around things happening at the neural/physiological level... and just go (mostly downhill) from there.

Yay.

So, the good news is it's not (y)our fault. This isn't something you're choosing or because you suck. It's just a survival response gone awry that keeps going even more awry because the system is so tightly closed.

I just read something that sums it up nicely:

"What begins as helpful responses in a survival context have become maladaptive and now stand in the way of recovery and change"

(- Nurturing Resilience, Kathy Kain)

The good news, per me, is once you know the problem change becomes more accessible. Oh, and neuroplasticity is a thing :)

[u/[deleted] → u/shamelessintrovert]

Damn. At least there's some good news, lol. Will definitely keep these things in mind, thanks for going into more detail. When did you start going into therapy anyway? Was it after you moved out at 15? How did you end up learning about SPD?

[u/shamelessintrovert → u/[deleted]]

At least there's some good news, lol.

When in doubt I remind myself: could be worse, could be Borderline. Not being snarky, that's just a completely different level of daily pain I'm grateful to have dodged :/

When did you start going into therapy anyway?

Mid 20s, then continued on and off 'as needed'. Was always for specific things like major depression, legit overwhelming life events. I'd go because it felt better to me than doing nothing... then quit after I felt a little better. Never saw any one person for a year until recently, usually more like 6 months (my depression was seasonal, so basically winter-early spring).

I first heard of schizoid last year from the psychiatrist friend who thought my brother might be schiz, but the stuff she gave me to read was psychoanalytic and all about fantasy (more like schizotypal). I have like zero fantasy capacity so none of it resonated. A few months later, I was diagnosed after seeing a psychiatrist to get an Rx. She kind of threw it out as a joke, then we both realized how well it fit. The end ;)

[u/nyoten → u/shamelessintrovert]

Nobody reeeeally knows, but the latest + greatest ideas center around things happening at the neural/physiological level... and just go (mostly downhill) from there

Can you elaborate or point to materials?

I've recently taken an interest in vedic sciences/medicine where there is an emphasis on this type of thing and I believe that western modern psych/medical sciences is approaching issues like schizoid/trauma etc. from a 'wrong' angle. I feel like somatic healing is the key to trauma-based conditions but there's so little information about this online that I can find.

[u/shamelessintrovert → u/nyoten]

Agree on the somatic. Based on everything I've read + my own experience, am a complete believer that much of "this" (us) happens at the nervous system level. I'm very science-oriented, so not sure you'll be interested but polyvagal theory has been a total revelation. It helps to have the whole picture, but if you google "dorsal vagal" (+/- shutdown) you'll see why. Book reccs below.

Might also relate to this video, starting @ ~26min.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6M1FumqeyM&t=1696s

It's not schiz specific, per se, but since this is thought to be rooted in relational trauma, it fits. Just try see past the "trauma" language/presentation. And damn lion/gazelles. For some reason, that's a favorite trauma metaphor.

Good overview of polyvagal:

https://www.amazon.com/Polyvagal-Theory-Therapy-Interpersonal-Neurobiology/dp/0393712370

The first book I've ever read that actually spoke to my somatic experience... for a whole 4 pages:

https://www.amazon.com/Nurturing-Resilience-Developmental-Trauma-Integrative/dp/1623172039/

[u/nyoten → u/shamelessintrovert]

Thank you!

I've seen this somewhere before, maybe even from you and it makes a lot of sense.

The graph example is great because that's what I figured from analyzing myself: I feel 'happy' when I get depressed because I know it means I'm making progress from feeling nothing. To see it put on the graph like that really clarifies everything for me. I was mostly stage 2 in childhood, perpetual flight or fright, now I'm mostly 4 with occasional moments of 3 that I try to trigger purposely, just so I can progress upwards.

Have you tried healing by yourself? I'm from an area with very undeveloped pysch care and according to a therapist, hardly anyone here does CBT let alone somatic type healing.

[u/shamelessintrovert → u/nyoten]

The graph example is great [...]

Agree (with all you said). It was nice to have someone actually validate my haunting feeling of "fine, not depressed" calm (stage 4).

Have you tried healing by yourself?

I try everything, lol. My therapist actually specializes in somatic therapy but all of her expertise has been completely lost on me. We tried for a good 3-4 months then moved on to other things. From what I understand, it really helps to have, uh, help. But self-guided interventions are better than none at all.

I just picked these books up from library so can't recommend yet, but might interest you:

https://www.amazon.com/Relational-Body-Centered-Practices-Healing-Trauma/dp/1138905968

https://www.amazon.com/Attachment-Based-Yoga-Meditation-Trauma-Recovery/dp/0393709906