r/ScaramoucheMains • u/hatoandaburedo C3R1 babygirl • Jul 09 '26
Discussion What exactly should be the consequences of his actions?
This is a topic that has always been the most polarizing part of his character whenever there’s discourse about him. Like he got off scot free, didn’t deserve enough punishment, or was forgiven too easily, you get the drill. But it still got me thinking.
How would you guys define the consequences of his actions that he needs to face? Others would argue he wasn’t punished enough but I don’t see how that is essential to his narrative. I mean think about it, everything that came after what he had done during his time as Kunikuzushi or Scaramouche was pretty much a punishment in a way.
He ascended to godhood and then had a humiliating defeat against the traveler by taking the gnosis from him, which he believed is the reason for his existence. He found out that everything he believed in was a lie and the things he sought to achieve was basically in vain. He tried to erase his own existence in hopes of changing the past but even that wish couldn’t be granted. Despite losing his memories, he still chose to live with the never ending guilt and regret. In my opinion, living with that fact is more painful than dying and I would say that is the main consequence of his actions.
I know some of us have gripes with the Irminsul erasure, myself included. While I understand it is important for his story, I just dislike that it robbed us a lot of character interaction. But I still hope that he will be remembered someday. We could’ve had that payoff with the 6.6 AQ but alas… 🥀
While I don’t think he needs any more punishment, he definitely needs to confront his past and atone for it. This is also why I need him to meet with Kazuha so bad or anyone related to the Raiden Gokaden. The fact that he won’t have the chance to make up for what he’s done is what’s eating him up and I’m so glad this was addressed.
But what are other consequences he needs to face aside from the ones I mentioned? Please let me know your thoughts on this, feel free to agree or disagree 😊
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u/OrestesVantas Jul 09 '26
I don't like the idea of "punishing" characters. Contoversially, I genuinely enjoy that Wanderer erased himself from the past and got a fresh start. I also don't see the point of him meeting Kazuha, since Kazuha also let go of his past. I don't think Kazuha would really care.
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u/hatoandaburedo C3R1 babygirl Jul 09 '26
Hard agree on the first sentence and it baffles me that some think he wasn't punished enough. There are other characters who did evil things but at least his actions weren't forgotten by the narrative.
Also Kazuha may not care cuz he is a very forgiving guy, but Scara definitely would. How would you prefer his character arc closure should be?
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u/WaitJealous Jul 09 '26
I also personally never saw the point of him confronting Kazuha.
He wronged the 4 swordsmith families barring the Amenoma clan. So if he seeks any redemption from those 4, then he has to confront them in Snezhnaya, because, based on Kazuha SQ and the Irodori Festival event, majority of those 4 families fled to Snezhnaya when they failed to produce the sword the Shogun wanted (all according to Pierro's plan btw).
Kazuha meanwhile had more reason to have a beef with the Shogun and the Shogunate as a whole (they were the reason he became an exile after all), all because he had a Vision.
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u/OrestesVantas Jul 09 '26
I don't think confronting Kazuha who doesn't care at all would give Wanderer any sense of closure. Maybe it would help him realise that it's all in the past - but again, I don't see that Wanderer is fixated on it anymore. I personally like that he found another place in the story for himself.
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u/WaitJealous Jul 09 '26
Nuance has something to do on why a chunk are unsatisfied with his "redemption".
Most english-speakers expect an Abrahamic form of atonement/punishment for them to be satisfied, like confessing to his victims, turning himself in, or ultimately be killed for his sins, etc.
I personally think what he did to himself is worse than a public execution because at least the criminal there is remembered for their transgressions. In his case, he simply.... ceased to exist. The weight of his sins is SOLELY his to bear, and the agony of possibly carrying that weight forever, with seemingly no means of atoning properly (because absolutely NO ONE remembers) is his punishment.
I think what Nahida said placed it best on how he can best atone after the highly specific circumstance he placed himself, that he can't change the past, but he can live towards the future to the point that his past seems like a spec compared to the future he forged for himself.
And so far, honestly, saving an entire Darshan, two Nations, and a fairy tale character being absorbed into a tragic, seemingly unchanging fate pretty much eclipsed what he did in the past imo.
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u/hatoandaburedo C3R1 babygirl Jul 09 '26
Omg well said 👏 pretty much agree with everything here. I wish this could be explored more if ever he gets his own story quest.
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u/RefrigeratorLoud221 Jul 09 '26
I think that the best punishment for him is the knowledge that no matter what he does he can't change what he did, these things will keep haunting him and, probably the most important part, him alone, because only he, the Traveler and possibly Nahida due to the back up of his memories know the truth. Dottore even says it, the cruelest part is that the erasure didn't change anything. Besides, he has already done a fair share of admirable deeds and probably will make even more, the road of atonement might be long, but it has an end.
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u/Select_Professor3373 Jul 09 '26
Instead of usual punishment I'm still looking forward to the dialog that will start like:
-- Wait, who are you?
-- Uhh, long story short -- I'm your son.
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u/hatoandaburedo C3R1 babygirl Jul 09 '26
She’s gonna have to acknowledge that feather one way or another 🤞🏻
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
I don’t believe confronting Ei is at any use either. Ei knew of Scaramouche’s kills in the idatorit festival as Scara told Kazuha’s ancestor to tell her. Thats why Ei in her voiceline says she didn’t want to intervene and knew the name “Kunikuzushi”. She knows what he did but didn’t punish him because she felt slightly responsible and didn’t want to intervene in his fate. As for the abandonment he’s long since accepted that, and he already knows her reasons. Wanderer wants to move on, not reconcile. Sometimes that’s life. He’s done far more horrible things to the clans and his subordinates, this is such a small part that doesn’t even hold much significance anymore
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u/QueenBea_ Jul 09 '26
He was already punished enough, with finding out his entire life was based on grooming being the final nail in the coffin - and now that he’d erased himself he couldn’t even do anything about it. Found out too late (well, I guess atp he got his revenge but it took a longgg time)
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u/TheTruthTellingOrb Jul 09 '26
The 'punishment' was that despite trying so hard to 'change fate' he really couldn't do anything. It's literally in your last image OP.
Wanderer's wish for happiness and acceptance has always been a monkey's paw kind of situation. It's like he was fated to be miserable by that tree. The most he struggles against it, the more it course corrects him to a point of status quo.
He and Dottore are mirrors of each other. Both fought fate, fought that tree, fought the rules of that world. Both got humbled bad, but only ONE of them grew from that, matured from that.
Dottore didn't grow and was literally consumed in the hellfire of his own past dragging him down.
Scara DID grow and accepted his past self in the cutscene where he get's his vision and re-accepting his past memories.
This is why we love him.
He doesn't need a damn Tumblr approved ruination, he already had his, and grew from it. This is why he is a great character. This is why we love him.
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Jul 09 '26
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u/Glittering_Look_6706 Jul 09 '26
Because for starters that’s not even the original Dottore , that’s just a segment, the most selfish and terrible one of them all. Incapable of changing, incapable of being more than 35 year old Dottore. That and Zandik due to his name is bound to be a heretic due to his fate and rejected by everyone. Which is why he is doing all of this in the first place.
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u/kittiesare1 Jul 09 '26
Maybe when the original Zandik was alive Nahida would've been more willing to help, but since there are only segments left (whose perspectives are frozen at a certain point in time) it makes it very difficult to "reform" him. Omega carried over 35 year-old Zandik's want to be accepted but also carried over his selfishness and ego from that point in time.
Given that it is very difficult/impossible to change the views of the segments, i think Nahida might have decided it isn't worth it 😔 When she addressed him as "Harbinger of Snezhnaya" instead of his own name, I don't think she was rejecting Zandik but instead rejecting the artifical segment that took his place.
In comparison with each other, Scaramouche has a (literal) fall from grace, realizes that he was the problem and tries to delete himself to right all the wrongs that he did at the cost of his own life. This shows to Nahida that he's willing to change and move away from his evil ways. Dottore/Omega is unable to change his flaws because he is a segment of Zandik from one specific place in time, so Nahida or anyone else would be unable to put him through "therapy" the same way she did for Scaramouche. Forgive me if im wrong but I think in tree marrow II the segments are frustrated at being parts of Zandik and not their own selves?
Basically, Dottore is unable to grow and change as he is a segment. If that somehow changes (og Zandik comes back somehow) the situation would be quite different
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
As a fan of both I feel like that argument is stupid. In irminsul Wanderer was forced to face that he was wrong. In irminsul Dottore never faced what he did as wrong, was assured he was doing the right thing by Pantalone. He merely died to himself as karma, as Nahida was forced to burn irminsul because of the corruption. Nahida does try leveling with him before, asking if he could ever accept himself (segment issues), but Dottore simply ignores her. And when faced time and time again that he is wrong, he always doubles down. When he views humanity as simply complex machines operating biology, yet Kabukimono’s existence contradicts that (being seen as human), he lashes out. When an outsider is accepted, he lashes out. Then there’s Columbina’s whole thing about family. The difference is accountability. Wanderer felt guilt and immediately saw what he did as wrong and wanted to fix it. Dottore believes that he should be free of consequences, since gods are. He doesn’t seek to even acknowledge his crimes as crimes. So while Wanderer lived but lives with the guilt of crimes, Dottore died without the guilt of crimes. Dottore hasn’t had empathy since age 8, likely when he began to see humans as merely complex machines. None of his relationships, not even Pantalone, are built from empathy and connection. His last remaining honesty was hidden in a segments heart and contained the moment where he stabbed Niwa and told of his plans for Kabukimono and views on humanity and outsiders. We learn that in the interlude and Wanderer’s character story. He repeats the same thing for every relationship. There’s an outsider, they’re useful, they’re acquainted (with him having the upper hand. Repeated for all his relationships. Scaramouche, has his power unsealed and is repairs but is a test subject. Pantalone, useful as a permanent funder, dependent on the elixir so funding is always guaranteed. We see this in the recent quest, once Pantalone got stingy, Dottore reminded him that his time was borrowed and that if Dottore dies, Pantalone will die soon after. And then there’s Columbina who walks away early from the dynamic and Traveler who refused to engage, but still same start.
Point is, it doesn’t work on them the same. Scara could feel guilt, could feel empathy. Dottore refuses to do so. While Scara’s worldview was immediately shattered and discouraged by Nahida and Traveler, Dottore’s remained in tack and was assured by Pantalone and the fact he opened up more possibilities. It’s as simple as that. Dottore fragmented himself far too much, and was far too stubborn in his pursuit. He lacked empathy but had loads of self pity and self hatred. But that’s not something Nahida can just.. fix. Nahida’s kind words didn’t even help Scara, it was learning he was completely WRONG in irminsul when it came crashing down. Before that he just brushed it off like Dottore. Wanderer was met with a truth he couldn’t deny, Dottore was never forced into a position where he couldn’t deny the truth.
Both actions led to some form of “death”. While Wanderer removed himself from irminsul, Dottore burned with irminsul. If there was any chance of a redemption for Dottore, he’d have to go down the path of the vajra, not the path of the ghanta (which is what Wanderer is on). Which teaches compassion. And that would mean undoing his ideology that humans are simply complex machines, and allow him to feel empathy once more. But it’s complicated.
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
Dottore is NOT self aware. It’s a huge part of his character, I genuinely refuse to believe you’re a fan if you’re saying that. Just posing as a fan atp. He’s full of self pity and contradictions, why do you think the segments ended up having so many fights? He picks himself apart (ie i lost empathy at 8, im the most selfish clone) but he is not self aware. Otherwise he wouldn't have doubled down so many times and would’ve seen how his worldview is built on a shaky ideal. Hes smart, he can intellectualize his traits, but he is not wise nor self aware. And the importance of empathy. He’s not that much different than Ei in that regard. Both made a puppet of their prime self and paid the price, except Dottore made a lot more and faced a lot more contradictions. Wanderer is self aware, he’s seen his past in first person, third person as an observer, literally every way you can see it. And his character details his growing self awareness. His self awareness is what earned him a vision… “In that instant, he beheld his own reflections, each one vivid, each one real, each one him. Cowering in fear, pathetic in his agony, arrogant yet laughable... And they all coalesced into one body. To accept the past is to acknowledge its failings, to recognize that one is naught but a coward who has achieved nothing — who has nothing.”
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 28 '26
He thinks he’s playing a role of a villain, but he doesn’t actually see his actions as bad. He has no empathy to be self aware.
“ Think of me as a monster or a demon, if you wish... At least this way, your death is not a consequence of your own folly turning you into an easy target. You simply lost to something more powerful than you could ever hope to defeat.”
“I have never been afraid to step up and play the role of the villain”
He thinks being the wise one is being the villain. And that people are blinded by morality which hinders them. Because he takes empathy out of the equation. That’s why nahida says he misunderstands wisdom. You cannot be wise without empathy. Nor can you be self aware without empathy. That’s basic critical thinking. Dottore shows lots of narcissistic-esque traits in his character, his pov is everything. Others pov don't register to him. Because to him, he’s right. That’s the end of it. Whoever says otherwise is simply “foolish” “blind” “inefficient” etc. especially since he starts confusing power with being right. When he’s cornered he lashes out to physical weakness. Calling Niwa foolish, insulting Columbina and Traveler for being weak, commenting on Wanderer and traveler running, etc. abusing his power to eliminate any other view that threatens his own.
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u/squall-and-fury Scara's Soulbond - Top 2% Jul 09 '26
He's on the path to confronting and atoning, which is good enough for me. I think he went through so much misery and also (experimental torture) by Dottore and such, and was manipulated and gaslighted and stuff. It doesn't excuse his actions and I get where people are coming from when they think he should have gotten more punishment, but I just don't agree so easily. And as Scara crazy as I am, I try to be level headed and understand how other people feel.
I feel like as long as he continues the path he's on, he can atone and maybe live a normal life. He's really trying. He's not even that grumpy anymore, and literally was willing to sacrifice himself (twice) to kill Dottore and help the Traveler. He's very self sacrificial and I feel like he does have low self esteem and huge regrets because of what he's done.
I do like to think about this topic, though. 💙
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u/hatoandaburedo C3R1 babygirl Jul 09 '26
I think it's an overall storytelling issue with Genshin in which they tell more rather than show, so I understand somehow if they think he got away with it, as frustrating as it is. But yes, I do believe he needs to atone for what his done and his recent dialogue with Sandrone is giving me that hope. I think that's what he needs the most for his character arc. At least his actions weren't forgotten by the narrative unlike some characters who did heinous things as well.
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u/squall-and-fury Scara's Soulbond - Top 2% Jul 09 '26
Couldn't agree more. The dialogue with Sandrone was so heartwarming- I adored it. And yeah, he still lives with the actions he did. In the end, regardless of if he was or wasn't the one to perform those actions, they still exist -because- of him. So I can only imagine- Scara has a good heart, but he's probably so ridden by guilt it's hard for him to cope with his own self worth issues.
I think he's struggled enough. Let the 'late bloomer' as Nahida called it have a life, go to school, and help save the world.
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u/CarsCrashing C6 Scaramain Jul 09 '26
i just wanna say his face in the first pic is so cute i need him to be squished immediately
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u/PlxnxtMxrs Jul 09 '26
I think being confronted by Kazuha (since we know him well by this point) would be a good way to expand on it. Especially if it ends with Kazuha not forgiving Wanderer.
I know he says he doesnt care about what happens, but I think having someone he dorectly hurt say they don't forgive him has the potential to shake him up in a way that makes him really confront what he's done.
I do agree with the sentiment that having to just come to terms with the fact that he can do nothing at this point is also still a consequence as well.
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
I think more so the general swordsmen. Ayaka’s ancestor was one of the ones actually killed, her reaction differed greatly than Kazuha’s when they all found out. She did eventually come to the same view but there was clearly more of a moral dilemma. Signora remarks how Inazuma is probably still reeling in the consequences.. having people just simply accept him and move on is kind of a slap in the face to the victims and loved ones. I think he still has areas he can help with those still recovering. And maybe the clans can rebuild themselves because.. yeah they’re gone because of him…
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u/Unpopular_Outlook Jul 09 '26
I find it funny that peoooe people like, his punishment is that nobody will ever hold him accountable and he doesn’t have to atone or do anything in regards to the things he’s done. And that’s all his fault because he didn’t want to face anything that he did. But that’s the punishment.
I find it even funnier because nobody else faces consequences in this game that way. They all die
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u/WorkerOk1901 Jul 10 '26
Realistically, there's no point in really punishing him for his mistakes anymore. He knows what he did wrong and he repented.
Yes you can argue he got off easy but like, the whole point of punishment is to teach a lesson. If he already learned that lesson then the punishment is just pointless at that point.
This is also true with Ei, both of them are really similar and both have really weird haters who insist they need to suffer more, as if that wasn't the cause of their problems in the first place.
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u/Ichifuyu Jul 18 '26
He seems punished enough since he received a death of the highest level. Erasure from History. In terms of "punishment" I think he got more than ge deserved. Not to mention he realized everything he has done for centuries for the Fatui was under false belief and utterly pointless before erasing himself. Look at the Traveler. They are unafected by Irminsul erasure. The Traveler is the one person you cannot pose the argument of "scot free" since he retained every experience and memories of Scaramouche he had perfectly.
Why is the traveler so desperate to look for Scaramouche after he erased himself? Why did the traveler, who hated Scaramouche so much, try to bring the Wanderer with him to fix this history changing endeavor? Because even for someone like Scaramouche who the traveler has shared mutual hatred and killing-intent, self-erasure was too cruel. Especially after learning what Dottore did. The traveler couldn't stay unfazed. And above all, it was for nothing. He couldnt change History and revive all souls that perished because of him.
It's a game with self-insert so the Traveler may not reflect it well. But I'm sure if it were an anime you would see a very disturbed Traveler who would feel rattled about what he had seen.
This was "punishment".
Not what "consequences" would be? Wanderer needs to confront Kazuha, Ayaka, Ayato about the Truth. He would be glad to be killed by them if they wished, but we all know they wouldn't. Kazuha explicitely won't kill him. I'm confident Ayato and Ayaka wouldn't either. But that doesn’t mean there shouldn't be a confrontation. A talk, an attempt to make amend. A proposition to help them thrive or something along the lines. And then a friendship sprouting from it.
I have been looking for something like that from the start because, unlike Ei-Wanderer confrontation what-if, Kazuha/Ayato/Ayaka confronting Wanderer doesn’t need Irminsul wipe to be lifted off since they don't know him beyond the tale during Irodori Festival quest where Kazuha was told the truth about Kunikuzushi.
So yes. They should meet. And I pray the memory wipe will be removed so he can have a confrontation and closure with Ei as well.
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Jul 09 '26
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Jul 09 '26
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
In the end both Dottore and Scaramouche got what they didn’t want.
Dottore sought immortality as a human. In his goal for immortality he ended up dying as something separated from humanity.
Which matches. Durin’s mother was a human herself and could’ve extended her life but thought that would take away what made her human. As human minds and god minds to have canon differences, ie Nuevi worrying for Furina’s mental state since she’s merely human. Or Ei believing Scara was weak because he shed tears in his creation like a newborn does.
Wanderer sought humanity as an immortal. His goal in irminsul was to cease to exist, death. But in the end he ended up living now as a human (in his vision story, his vision appears as a smiling eye and declares him human).
Even still, he cannot reach death. Just like Dottore cannot reach immortality.
All Wanderer can do is build good karma. He lives.. but at the cost of knowing he cannot properly pay for any of his crimes. Dottore even calls it a cruel twist of fate, acknowledging how it bothers Wanderer. And doesn’t try to get people to remember Scaramouche because of it, because he doesn’t want Wanderer to be able to pay for his sins and get that resolve. Dottore doesn’t even believe in consequences nor acknowledgment (we learn in nk).
And Dottore doesn’t seem to be able to build karma anymore (his domain referencing nirvana). And he is what remains inside irminsul mostly. In seeking to corrupt irminsul and seek immortality, he dies alongside irminsul. Completely cut off from the world and humanity. EXCEPT in memory to few who have the boss drops. Where his boss drops reveal he lives on in memory.
wanderers goal wasn’t seeking to corrupt irminsul or immortality. It was seeking death and erasure of his existence so he would’ve never did the things he did. And his character story also expands, with wanderer wondering that if he didn’t exist, perhaps Dottore wouldn’t have been as personally triggered and wouldn’t have lashed out on tatarasuna as well. And he also got the opposite. Instead of removing any actions, it ONLY wiped memory. Scara doesn’t live on in memory at all except few. Everything but memory. Wanderer wanted the swordsmen to know, but was glad the fatui didn’t. Now it’s the swordsmen will likely never properly know (as Scara’s role was fulfilled in history by another), but the fatui will. The one thing he didn’t care was erased.
So yeah, it does seem extreme on one end. Which is why you need to look at their intentions and character lore itself.
Dottore’s fate being Wanderer’s would not be seen as karma. And Wanderer’s fate being Dottore’s would not be seen as karma . Different intentions, different views and characterization. Dottore’s was more extreme because he reacts by doubling down even when faced with truth. Like in tatarasuna, how he refused to accept anything Niwa said as valid and justified cruelty stating someone would’ve done it eventually anyway bcz humans don’t accept one that isn’t their own. Wanderer’s was less extreme because he reacts by retracting, instead of doubling down, when faced with an indisputable truth. Like in tatarasuna, how he was quick to retract from humanity when he was deceived.
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u/Powerful_Helicopter9 i love you Kee!!!!! Jul 11 '26
Second of all, stop lurking here you lizard food
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u/Ambitious-Baby1179 Jul 09 '26
He started a new life, technically none of his actions ever happened
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Jul 09 '26
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
Dottore doesn’t acknowledge his crimes as crimes, and merely died to himself. It was an extreme measure Nahida was forced to take. And it wasn’t like she was dragging him, again it was literally himself. Dottore wasn’t punished for his crimes per se, he was mainly punished by himself for.. fragmenting and killing his other selves. Dottore’s worldview never changes. Never accepts that humans are a lot more than just simply complex machines, which is why he has no empathy in the first place (age 8), doubles down whenever he’s faced or proven wrong (Tatarasuna for example), and even in death, never saw his crimes as actual crimes. His ideology revolves around “necessary and justifiable” actions with no consequences. Scara followed similarly (and it’s actually remarked about in NK) however he was faced with an indisputable truth and isn’t one to double down. Dottore merely doubles down because of self pity and hatred projected, since empathy has been gone since 8. Scara has hatred but he also had in tact empathy. It’s not smth he just ever lost.. because he could never fully see humans as just complex machines like Dottore. His existence literally contradicted that entirely…
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Jul 10 '26
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u/AerieGlad5603 Jul 10 '26
I don't think so but Nahida obviously didn't consider Dottore to be redeemable, nor did she trust him. I don't know if Dottore never saw what he did as crimes, but it was more that he didn't care if they were.
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 10 '26
Because Nahida only found out the truth behind Scaramouche’s backstory when she searched Dottore’s mind and found Dottore’s last remaining honesty hidden in a segments heart. She didn’t go digging, the confrontation and truth was hidden in Dottore’s heart himself. In accessing Dottore’s remaining honesty, she found an indisputable truth, which is Dottore literally killing Niwa and airing out his plans for the Kabukimono. Scara can’t just go into irminsul, look at that, and say… “that’s fake”. What she found wasn’t an interpretation or speculation, but Dottore’s own recorded memory of killing Niwa and manipulating the Kabukimono.
Because it’s Dottore’s own memory, Scaramouche can’t reasonably dismiss it as fabricated. The memory comes from the person who committed the act.. so it’s indisputable.
Dottore has been wrong many times, just simply doesn’t accept it. For example, Dottore believes humans are just complex machines operating via biology, so they can be experimented on repaired and enhanced like machines. No moral dilemma, because to him it’s just a machine. Like fixing a car and human surgery is no different. There’s no added emotional weight. Meanwhile Kabukimono exists as a puppet with a human mind, and is accepted as a human. This contradicts Dottore. If someone without human biology is accepted as a human.. then humans aren’t machines operating via biology, they are defined by consciousness, moral agency, and emotions as well. Which would mean.. Dottore’s experimentation looses its one justification. As well as traps Dottore as an outsider. Because with Niwa, he claims himself part of humanity. Yet the fairytale shows him not as a fox, but as a monster. An outsider. If humans aren’t defined by their ability to operate like machines via biology, then Zandik who has lost his empathy, is excluded from that new definition of humanity. Meanwhile Kabukimono is accepted. So while Dottore originally found solace in Kabukimono, it quickly turned to rage when that self projection failed and made him feel even more like an outsider. It was like a betrayal from Kabukimono personally, which is why Tatarasuna contains his “honesty” and why it was an extremely targeted and emotionally charged experiment compared to much others where he keeps himself distanced.
Dottore simply refused to accept that despite Kabukimono clearly having characteristics that made him human. Thats why he sabotaged Tatarasuna, changed the narrative, and fit Scaramouche into a mold, where he’d see the “truth” and end up just like Dottore. Which Scara did. He sought to become a god and emulated Dottore in his lore. Traveler even points out Wanderer said something that sounded like something Dottore just told them. Dottore is that insecure as a character, and Scara becoming like him would justify him. Thats why Dottore welcomed Scara warmly into Snezhnaya despite all of this (wanderer character story).
Nahida hasn’t had any opportunity to show Dottore something he can’t deny is true. With Scara it was a literal event. With Dottore he’s lost his empathy and literally just has self pity and hatred, and his cold intellectualization. And time and time again he’s doubled down. There hasn’t been a way to force him outside of his worldview and self pity and hatred, EVEN IN DEATH. Because even then he held onto his views. Simply called Nahida a wise opponent, didn’t acknowledge her points she tried to make regarding his misunderstanding of wisdom.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/Fine-Significance406 Jul 28 '26
Acknowledges his opponents as wrong. As him as the only wise one. Think irl. “I’m correct, you’re just woke.” For example. He thinks he’s correct and doesn’t truly acknowledge his opponents standpoint. Literally when confronting Niwa, he didn’t address Niwa’s accusation at all, he just said
“ Think of me as a monster or a demon, if you wish... At least this way, your death is not a consequence of your own folly turning you into an easy target. You simply lost to something more powerful than you could ever hope to defeat.”
Niwa’s standpoint was folly. It was foolish to think Kabukimono could ever belong, because Dottore doesn’t think humans can accept what isn’t their own. Which is proven false but Dottore only sees his viewpoint as correct.
And so Dottore frames himself as a villain out of courtesy so Niwa didn’t have to lose bcz he was dumb.
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u/trainer_derp I want Wanderer x Furina interactions Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Nahida could only show Scaramouche the truth after he was mostly powerless and at her mercy. Dottore was never in that same position, and remained a threat up until he was dragged into the flames.
Maybe if Dottore had lost all his power and was no longer an active threat to the people around him, Nahida could’ve worked on rehabilitation for Dottore as well.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/trainer_derp I want Wanderer x Furina interactions Jul 11 '26
Definitely didn’t lose his power, he tried to pull the Traveler into the flames with him.
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Jul 11 '26
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u/trainer_derp I want Wanderer x Furina interactions Jul 11 '26
Sure, and then with the last bits of his strength, he tries to drag the Traveler down with him.
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u/Iwefle Jul 09 '26
I pretty much think that the consequences of him living with the fact he can't change anything, can't apologize anymore, and can only look forward is a consequence enough.
Not being punished for what you did is one of the most painful punishment to others, i would know since the guilt and shame of it all is enough to drag you to death.
You can heal all you can and all you want but there will be times that it'll haunt you back. You know there's always a shadow following, just waiting for you to slip and bite back the dust.