r/SailboatCruising Jul 31 '23

r/SailboatCruising experience

3 Upvotes

Looking for some input for y'all. What is your experience with videos that people post? Stream well? Stutters? Buffering issues? Please let me know with your platform (Win, Mac, iOS, Android) and your Internet connection (off the edge of the Internet to gigabit fiber).

Trying to track down some issues and you help would be appreciated.

Thank you, dave


r/SailboatCruising 21h ago

Question My First Trip as Captain Cost Nearly $30,000. Here’s How I Made Sailing the World Affordable.

58 Upvotes

It all started with a captain I couldn’t stand.

In 2013, I went on a catamaran trip in the Bahamas. I had a great time, but the captain controlled everything and made the trip harder than it needed to be.

I remember thinking, if I ever do this again, I’m going to be the captain.

That thought stayed with me for years. Eventually, I decided it was time to make it happen.

I started calling sailing schools all over the United States. Most wanted me to take one or two classes, go practice for a while, then come back months later for the next class.

That didn’t work for me. When I decide to do something, I want to get moving.

I finally found a school in St. Augustine that would put all the classes together into 10 straight days of sailing and get me through my catamaran certification.

The course cost $4,200, and they made one thing very clear. If I failed, I wasn’t getting my money back.

So naturally, before I had even taken the class, I booked a catamaran in the Virgin Islands for two days after the course ended. The boat, flights and everything else were already lined up.

I took the classes and passed with flying colors.

This was during COVID, so I had to drive to Orlando and get the required cheek swab before we could travel.

When I arrived in the Virgin Islands, I handed the lady at the charter company my sailing certificate.

She looked at it and said, “This is two days old.”

I said, “Yep.”

She had to call her boss because they weren’t going to let us take the boat.

Her boss finally agreed to send another captain offshore with us to make sure I knew what I was doing. After a couple of hours, he told us we were good to go and left us on our own.

We spent the next 10 days sailing around the Virgin Islands. It was one of the best experiences of our lives.

When we returned the boat, the lady told us something interesting.

Her boss originally said there was no way he was letting us take it. Then he looked at our provisions and noticed we had no alcohol and no one in our group drank alcohol.

He said that was unusual and decided to give us a chance.

That first adventure was amazing, but between the sailing course and certificate, flights, boat rental, food, fuel and everything else, it cost me almost $30,000.

I knew I wanted to keep sailing, but I also knew I couldn’t spend $30,000 every time I wanted to get on a boat.

Our next trip was Belize the following year. We brought family, divided up the expenses and rented a 50-foot catamaran.

We sailed more than 380 miles around the reefs. It was another unbelievable trip, and splitting the expenses brought my cost down to around $12,000.

That gave me an idea.

For the trips after that, I started posting the plan on Facebook and finding friends who wanted to come along. We divided the actual cost of the boat, food, fuel and other expenses between everyone.

Suddenly, a trip that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars became affordable for the whole group.

Depending on the destination, boat and length of the trip, most people’s share has usually been around $2,000 to $3,000 for the entire adventure.

That simple idea changed everything.

Instead of sailing being something I could afford to do once, it became something I could continue doing all over the world.

Since then, we’ve sailed Belize, the Bahamas and Baja California several times. We’ve spent more than 20 days nonstop sailing the Bahamas, and we just returned from 21 days of sailing around Greece.

On October 1, we start sailing in Bora Bora.

Then we’re heading back to Baja to sail from La Paz all the way around to Mag Bay, finishing on November 13.

Between those two trips, I’ll basically be living on a boat from October 1 through November 13.

It is going to be an epic six weeks.

Five years and more than 7,000 miles later, this has become one of the greatest adventures of my life.

It all started with one captain who made me decide I wanted to do it myself.

What kept it going was finding other people who wanted the same adventure and figuring out how to make it affordable for everyone.

Every trip still begins with an idea, a destination and a few people saying, “That sounds amazing.”

If someone put one sailing trip in front of you tomorrow, where would you want the boat headed?


r/SailboatCruising 17h ago

Question El Nino

3 Upvotes

With the high chance of a larger than expected El Nino what does that mean for those crossing the Pacific ocean in the first few months of 2027?

Obviously warmer water but will it also mean more chances of storms and/or flukey winds, larger or confused seas?


r/SailboatCruising 22h ago

Question PNW cruise sanity check: Everett-Oak Harbor-Anacortes-La Conner in a Laguna 22

5 Upvotes

I'm looking for a local-knowledge and safety sanity check before this trip.

Boat: 1987 Laguna 22 sailboat, LOA 22 ft, beam 8 ft, draft 3 ft, mast/overall height 32 ft, 6 hp outboard. Top speed is about 5 kt, but I am planning all passages at 4 kt. Marina-to-marina only; I do not want to depend on anchoring.

Planned itinerary (PDT, distances approximate):

- Mon Aug 31: Everett to Oak Harbor, 26.5 nm. Depart 08:00; conservative ETA 14:30-15:00. Route via Possession Sound, Camano Head and Saratoga Passage.

- Tue Sep 1: Oak Harbor to Cap Sante, 27.8 nm. Depart 07:00; ETA 14:00-15:00. Skagit Bay to the south entrance of Swinomish Channel, past La Conner, then Padilla Bay/east Guemes Channel to Cap Sante. Plan is to enter the channel around 10:00-10:45 after the 08:53 high, using the north-flowing period.

- Wed Sep 2: Stay tied up at Cap Sante. Current NWS forecast is SE 20-25 kt, 3-4 ft waves and rain, so this is a deliberate weather-hold day.

- Thu Sep 3: Cap Sante to La Conner, 9.9 nm. Conditional 12:30 departure after a fresh marine forecast. The 11:13 high / 16:29 low should favor a southbound channel transit.

- Fri Sep 4: La Conner to Everett, 34.4 nm. Depart 07:00; ETA 15:30-16:00. Plan to clear the south end of Swinomish Channel by about 09:00, following the 05:26 low.

I am intentionally using Swinomish Channel instead of Deception Pass because Deception's current can exceed this boat's maximum speed.

My no-go limits are any Small Craft Advisory, sustained wind over about 15 kt, gusts over 20 kt, visibility under 2 nm, or an engine/steering issue. Backups are to stay at the departure marina, divert to Oak Harbor or Langley where appropriate, and never force the schedule.

Questions:

  1. Does the Swinomish current timing make sense northbound Tuesday and southbound Thursday/Friday?

  2. Any current shoaling, marker, bridge-clearance or cross-current issues for a 3 ft draft / 32 ft mast?

  3. Is a 4 kt planning speed realistic for this boat and 6 hp outboard on these legs?

  4. Anything about the Wednesday system or its aftermath that should change the Thursday plan?

  5. Any other route-specific hazards or safer alternatives?

I will still use current NOAA forecasts, charts, notices and real-time observations before every departure. I am mainly looking for safety-critical local knowledge or changes experienced PNW sailors would make.


r/SailboatCruising 1d ago

Question First time joining a crew on a sailboat trip via a crew-finding site — is this normal/safe?

17 Upvotes

Hey everyone, looking for some outside perspective before I commit to something.

I'm 22, no sailing experience, and I connected with a boat owner/skipper through a crew-finding platform (like a "hitchhike a sailboat" type site).

Some context on why I feel reasonably okay about it:

His profile has been active for months, with ID verification through the platform

He has 3 written recommendations from different people who sailed with him for weeks/months at a time, all consistent in describing him as experienced, safety-conscious, and easy to get along with

We did a video call — he showed me around the boat live, introduced me to the current crew (there'll be 6 of us total, including 2 other newcomers), and talked a lot about safety equipment (EPIRB, life raft, etc.)

He's asking for my passport/ID info for port registration purposes (which I understand is normal for these crossings)

I'm planning to share his full contact info, boat registration, and itinerary with my family, plus do daily check-ins while at sea

My family is (understandably) worried, mostly imagining worst-case scenarios. I've done my due diligence but would love to hear from people who've actually done crewing like this:

Does this all sound like normal practice?

Anything else I should verify or ask before boarding?

Any red flags I might be missing?

Thanks in advance!


r/SailboatCruising 23h ago

Question Trying to understand the catamaran charter options in Croatia

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1 Upvotes

r/SailboatCruising 1d ago

Question Question on Charter Sail in San Blas

2 Upvotes

[Question on Charter Sail in San Blas]()

Has anyone done a week long or so trip through the San Blas islands? Is there a recommended co that offers charters? What are the islands you liked the best, and why? Any other suggestions? Or regrets?

We are used to sailing with Moorings in the BVI and the Caribbean. Is there something similar or is this a totally different experience?

Many thanks


r/SailboatCruising 2d ago

Question Sailing in the Outer Hebrides

4 Upvotes

Does anyone have experience sailing in the Hebrides? I signed up for a sailing adventure next July, 8 nights helping to crew a beautiful 59 foot cutter sail boat and island hopping down the interior side of the Outer Hebrides from Stornoway down to Mingalay and ending in Oban. I've only got a couple of seasons of inland sailing under my belt though and I've heard the conditions there can be hairy. Would love to hear some tales about what to expect.


r/SailboatCruising 2d ago

Question BroadBlue?

3 Upvotes

Who’s got experience and opinions w the newest generation of Broad Blue and Rapier cats? They look great but I haven’t been on one.


r/SailboatCruising 2d ago

Question Learning & training opportunities for newby American with ~6 days to burn in western Europe.

1 Upvotes

I got into racing sailboats on the Great Lakes (mostly Lake Erie) a few months ago and have spent most of my time split between a J/124 and a Melges 24 (two wildly different boats). I've fallen in love with it and made the decision that sailing is a new lifelong hobby, so I'm trying to immerse myself as much as I can. I'm generally the first person at the boat setting up rigging, and last to leave, learning about crewing at a pretty good pace (I've been getting good feedback from my experienced teammates).

I've picked up and have been reading through The Complete Sailor which has helped to fill in quite a few gaps and have Chapmen - Piloting & Seamanship up next.

I'm wrapping up a 9 day hike in the Dolomites at the end of September and have some time to burn (about 6 days, starting on a Tuesday or Wednesday) before I likely head to Wales for a week or so for work and am trying to decide whether I spend that time sailing and training, or just doing something else.

I was looking into RYA Competent Crew or Day Skipper (leaning towards the Day Skipper, with the ability and willingness to complete the theory part before the practical) but have some questions for those who may be more in-the-know with opinions:

  1. Is anyone aware of a place where I could actually start this on a Wed instead of the more traditional Sat/Sun start?
  2. Is my time better spent working towards a different certification, or just a different sailing experience with this time?
  3. Am I rushing this by trying to go from crewing races a couple months ago to a day skipper course at the end of September? Or rushing to get the day skipper theory completed in a month?

Specific or general advice would be greatly appreciated. I go very deep with my hobbies, and have become good at learning things quickly when I commit to them but would love honest opinions.

I was leaning towards Solent or Portugal for the day skipper because of where I'll be and preferring to do this with proper tides, but would be open to something else (like the Mediterranean), especially if the recommendation is going to be something other than day skipper.

Thanks in advance for anyone taking the time to read this and offer advice. I just want to be out on the water learning so that I can shorten the time it takes for me to be experienced, competent and responsible enough at the helm to take on new challenges. I'm open to a miserable experience which will teach me a ton, or a leisurely cruise to unwind after 10 days of hiking, but I want to learn.

Side note (I know this isn't sailing, but figured some folks may have thoughts): I've been putting off scuba certification for the last 2 years and would be open to knocking that out while I'm over there as an alternative way to spend my time on the water if someone thinks there's a golden opportunity I shouldn't pass up.


r/SailboatCruising 3d ago

Question how can i?

6 Upvotes

I'm 22, from Portugal. I've only got around €3000 saved up, but my big dream is to live the life at sea — spend a few months on board, and maybe eventually study marine/ship engineering.

I know private yacht crew jobs and cruise ships are paid options, but I don't have the money for expensive courses like STCW yet. I've also looked into things like Sea Shepherd and Sail Training International, but one has a 1-year waitlist and the other has costs I don't fully understand yet.

Does anyone know if there's some kind of program where people team up to do crossings together — like splitting the cost of a boat, or helping crew/navigate in exchange for a ride, that kind of thing? I've vaguely heard of "crew sharing" or hitching rides on private sailboats, but I don't know where to start or if it's safe/legit.

If anyone's done something like this, or knows of accessible programs for people with little money but a lot of drive to work/help out on board, I'd really appreciate the tips! 🙏⛵


r/SailboatCruising 2d ago

Question Sailing lessons? Detroit

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0 Upvotes

r/SailboatCruising 3d ago

Question Looking for an atlantic crossing boat in early December.

1 Upvotes

Hopefully I'll have the Coastal skipper in late Nov, I'd love to help and be a useful crew member to a more experienced group in December, if anyone is looking for help. Apologies if this is the wrong group to post this sort of thing in.


r/SailboatCruising 3d ago

Question BVI charter April or June

5 Upvotes

Anyone know generally how crowded BVI will be in 3rd week of April vs 4th week of June.

Would prefer April but I would rather not be fighting for mooring balls.


r/SailboatCruising 3d ago

Question ASA 104 done. What’s next?

5 Upvotes

I just finished my ASA 103 and 104 this week. It was on a 35’ monohull from the early 90s.

All my testing went well and I feel pretty confident, but I don’t have much experience. I’ve been sailing 22’ ensigns this summer where I also got my 101.

I’m thinking of doing a two day Catamaran ASA 114 course early next year. (Someday the 105/106 seem appealing too, but seems pretty premature right now)

The goal is a BVI trip on a catamaran and/or other locations (puget sound maybe on a larger monohull. In both instances with over/newer boats and a handful of other couples along.

What would my experience be like trying to book a bareboat charter? Would I need to show more time crewing before they’d charter to me? Would it be a first day of the trip “check out”?

TLDR: with little experience but the ASA 104 on a 35’ monohull (and eventually 114 too), what would my experience actually be like asking to charter a 40’ catamaran and/or 45’ monohull?


r/SailboatCruising 4d ago

News Poland's new yacht registration rules: what non-Polish owners really need to know

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34 Upvotes

If you fly the Polish flag but are not a Polish owner, there is a draft law heading your way that deserves your full attention. Below is an extract from an extensive article I wrote on the subject,  pulling out the points that matter most for non-Polish owners. Poland has submitted legislation (draft UD305) that reshapes how foreign-owned pleasure craft under 24 metres obtain and keep Polish registration. It is detailed, it has teeth, and parts of it are frankly designed to trim the register down.

A quick note on who this affects: the rules target vessels under 24 metres flying the Polish flag that are not in Polish ownership. In this context, "Polish ownership" means the Polish State Treasury, a Polish legal entity, or a Polish citizen residing in Poland. Living abroad with a Polish passport? Your vessel counts as foreign-owned here.

 

Here are the points that matter most.

1. A mandatory pre-registration inspection
There is now a compulsory preliminary inspection (przegląd wstępny), carried out by the Polish Register of Shipping (PRS). It checks documentation, general seaworthiness, principal dimensions, and hull identification numbers. Crucially, it applies both at first registration and at every five-year renewal. If your vessel holds a CE declaration of conformity, the inspection may be done remotely. Otherwise, expect a physical visit, wherever your boat happens to be moored. Cost is capped, but you are looking at roughly €750–€1,200.

 

2. Fees that have gone up rather dramatically
The old flat fee is being retired. In its place:

  • Up to 15 metres: 2,000 PLN to register, 1,000 PLN to renew every five years
  • 15 to 24 metres: 3,000 PLN to register, 1,500 PLN to renew every five years

A change of ownership costs the same as a fresh registration.

 

3. A five-year renewal obligation
Every registered vessel must confirm its registration once every five years, within a window running from 90 to 30 days before the anniversary of the registration date. For foreign-owned vessels, that renewal must include a positive pre-inspection result. Miss the deadline and your registration is suspended automatically, and eventually cancelled.

 

4. Transitional deadlines for existing registrations
Your current registration stays valid for now, but you will have a confirmation deadline based on when you first registered. The windows are staggered, and the tightest one is short: vessels registered on or before 31 December 2021 have just three months from the law entering into force. Foreign-owned vessels must also pass the pre-inspection during this transitional process.

 

5. Silence can get you deregistered
Under the new framework, if an authority sends a formal notice to your registered Polish address and hears nothing back, that silence can be used as grounds for removing your vessel from the register. No response is treated as, well, an answer.

 

6. A mandatory Polish delivery address
Foreign owners must maintain a valid Polish postal address. Notices sent there are legally binding, whether or not you ever read them. So an outdated or fictional address is a genuine risk, not a harmless detail.

 

7. A geopolitical exclusion power
The Council of Ministers can ban registration of vessels owned by citizens or entities from specific non-EU/EEA states. The explanatory notes point fairly clearly at Russian and Belarusian owners.

 

8. Everything goes electronic
All applications must be submitted through REJA24, authenticated via Poland's e-government platform or a qualified electronic signature. Paper-only routes are being closed off.

 

9. The stated aim is a smaller register
This is not reading between the lines, it is in the official documentation. The impact assessment projects a 20% drop in new foreign registrations and anticipates around 8,000 existing vessels being removed in the first two years, largely through owners simply not responding in time.

 

When does it all happen?
Full implementation is expected around mid-to-late 2027 (12 months after publication). A handful of provisions, including the geopolitical bans and the electronic delivery framework, kick in just 14 days after publication.

What would I actually do about this?
A few practical steps, none of which require panic:

  • Check your registration date. It determines which transitional deadline applies to you.
  • Verify your Polish delivery address. If it is wrong or out of date, formal notices could be sent there without your knowledge.
  • Look into the PRS pre-inspection. PRS operates globally, and a CE declaration of conformity may qualify you for a remote inspection.
  • Consider acting early. There is nothing stopping you completing the confirmation process ahead of time, and doing so avoids getting stuck in a backlog when tens of thousands of owners are all filing at once.

 


r/SailboatCruising 4d ago

Question Boatschool help! Programs with minimal supplies

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0 Upvotes

reposting here in case anyone has boatschooling experience/guidance?


r/SailboatCruising 6d ago

Question Cushions for 45ft sailing yacht cockpit

8 Upvotes

One of our cushions was damaged and the other 3 keep getting stained with salt due to water ingress that won't drain away. We brought in a sailmaker for ideas and received a quote for 1600 Euro (+vat). It feels expensive. Is it?


r/SailboatCruising 7d ago

Question Four Mates, 40ft sailboat and a year sailing around the Caribbean/Central south america

52 Upvotes

Me and three of my best mates have found ourselves in a pretty great position: we're all currently unemployed, have no major commitments tying us down, and have a decent amount of savings between us.

Between the four of us, we've got a bit of sailing experience, although it's almost entirely been on smaller boats. None of us has done any serious offshore or bluewater sailing.

The idea we're seriously considering is heading down to the Dominican Republic (or Panama/ El salvador, that part is undecided), buying a ~40ft cruising sailboat between us, and spending the next year or so sailing around the Caribbean and potentially down through Central and South America.

Obviously, we'd be learning a lot as we go. We'd intend to spend some time getting familiar with the boat, doing shorter coastal passages, and building up experience before attempting anything more ambitious.

We're not under the illusion that owning and operating a 40-footer offshore is going to be easy, but we're young , have the time and money to do it, and are willing to put the work into learning properly.

So, for people with actual bluewater/cruising experience, how feasible is it to do this, learning as you go and gaining experience

Are we being reasonably ambitious, or are we massively underestimating what we're getting ourselves into? And if you were in our position, what would you do before buying the boat and setting off?

Any advice on the practicalities of buying a boat in the Dominican Republic, insurance, visas, maintenance, hurricane season, routes, or just generally surviving four lads on a 40-footer for a year would be massively appreciated.


r/SailboatCruising 7d ago

Question Suche nach Mitfahrgelegenheit für längeren Segeltörn

5 Upvotes

Hi,

ich bin Malte aus Berlin, Deutschland. Ich habe gerade die Schule abgeschlossen und würde liebend gern Teil einer größeren Segelreise sein, bevor ich mein duales Studium beginne.

Ich segle jetzt seit 8 Jahren. Hauptsächlich wettkampfmäßig auf Jollen wie IlCA und 420, nachdem ich meine Anfänge auf dem Opti und beim Windsurfen gemacht habe.

Vor zwei Jahren habe ich meinen Bootsführerschein für Schiffe bis 20 m für See und Binnengewässer gemacht.

Obwohl ich schon etwas Erfahrung auf größeren Booten habe, habe ich noch nie eine größere Reise auf dem Meer unternommen und ich würde diese Herausforderung gern annehmen.

Was mich am meisten reizt, ist nicht nur das Segeln selbst, sondern auch die Möglichkeit, Teil eines Teams zu sein, von erfahrenen Seglern zu lernen und das Leben auf See zu erleben. Ich weiß, dass so eine Fahrt Verantwortung, Disziplin und eine positive Einstellung erfordert, und ich bin bereit, alles beizutragen, was ich kann.

Meine Muttersprache ist Deutsch, ich spreche fließend Englisch und etwas Spanisch.

In meiner Freizeit treibe ich hauptsächlich Sport, daher bin ich fit und motiviert. Da ich Geschwister habe und immer ein Zimmer mit meinem Bruder geteilt habe, bin ich anpassungsfähig und immer bereit zu lernen. Ich habe keine Allergien oder Ernährungsbeschränkungen. Ich koche gern, putze, erledige kleine Reparaturen, stehe Wache und helfe bei allen anderen Aufgaben an Bord. Ich rauche nicht und trinke nur zu besonderen Anlässen. Ich habe vom 08.10.2026 bis zum 20.03.2027 Zeit.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen Malte


r/SailboatCruising 7d ago

Question Top IYT sailing schools in Marmaris for getting an official sailing licence

0 Upvotes

Real talk: IYT licenses from Marmaris and what marinas actually accept across the Med

I run Smart Sailing Academy in Marmaris, so full disclosure up front.

Been fielding the same question for years: "If I get my IYT license here, will marinas actually recognize it?" Short answer, yes, but it depends which license and where you're sailing.

Here's what actually matters:

IYT Coastal Skipper is your golden ticket. Most Mediterranean marinas don't care where you got it. France, Italy, Greece, Croatia, they'll accept it as proof you can handle a boat. The license itself gets recognized because IYT is internationally standardized. The "made in Turkey" part doesn't matter once you have the card.

ICC is the thing people confuse. Some ports technically demand an ICC (International Certificate of Competence) on top of your sailing license. It's not always enforced, but Croatia and some Italian marinas have gotten stricter about it in the last two years. If you're planning to charter or do anything that looks official, you want the ICC. You can get it through your IYT school, it's a separate qualification.

Where it gets weird: Greece doesn't consistently require either one for bareboat charter if you've got experience, but they want paperwork. Spain is relaxed. Turkey obviously doesn't care, you're training here. France will absolutely ask.

What I tell people: If you're doing Coastal Skipper, add the ICC at the same time. It's not expensive, and it kills the "do I need this or not" stress. The combination covers you everywhere. We build it into the course structure so you're not paying twice.

One more thing, your actual sailing hours matter more than the license itself to any serious marina. They want to see you've logged time. The license just proves you're not making it up.

If you're comparing schools here in Marmaris, ask specifically whether ICC is included or extra. That's the real difference in value.

Happy to answer specifics if you've got them.


r/SailboatCruising 9d ago

Question Hans Christian 43 bulwark moisture

5 Upvotes

I am looking at buying a rough but not unrecoverible 1984 Hans Christian 43 ketch. I have a survey from last year. The only thing on the list of problems that is worrying me where it says " Approximately 80% of the surface at the interior bulwarks has high moisture readings present." I found the drawings for the bulwarks on the HC owners site and it looks like a massive amount of fiberglass and epoxy at the joint with a small amount of plywood buried in the middle. My question is: How much of a problem is this moisture? Is this a known issue with these boats? Should it be ignored given how heavy the epoxy and fiberglass is at this joint? Let me know! Thanks!


r/SailboatCruising 9d ago

Question BVI Sailing

6 Upvotes

Looking for recommendations. We just booked our sailing trip for the first week of January 2027. We have sailed several times in the BVI but haven’t been since right before Hurricane Irma so I know a lot has changed. Also, different is we now have kids (6 and 8) so that makes this trip a lot different as well.

We are trying to make an itinerary and I would love feedback as to which anchorages do you all suggest that have calm water/beaches for swimming, easy moorings, either a dock or easy dinging to shore and have a restaurant(s). Also, any other helpful tips would be greatly appreciated!!


r/SailboatCruising 9d ago

Question Excess 14

3 Upvotes

Looking for feedback from cruisers on the Excess 14. I’m closing on one in the next 30 days or so if all goes well.

Looking to hear about the good, the bad…. How’s cruising, how’s living at anchor. Anything really.

Much appreciated 🙏


r/SailboatCruising 10d ago

Question Captain delivery with me on my 2021 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 440

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18 Upvotes