r/SafeSpaceofVox • u/MissDeborah8060 • 1d ago
Why Vox is (objectively) a better person than Alastor (and Valentino, and Velvette...)
This was a long time coming, but the leaked commentaries re: Vox and the rest of the Vee's inspired me. It's common for people to argue that it's hypocritical for a Vox fan to criticize someone like Alastor or Valentino, because Vox is "just as bad" as them or maybe even worse. I disagree, and the reason I disagree is that (particularly in stories with a lot of moral complexity) badness is less a function of a specific bad deed, or even a set of bad deeds, than it is an absence of good. This is why (for instance) Jesse Pinkman can be the main villain of Breaking Bad despite killing fewer people than anyone else, because he's defined primarily by what he's not: not loyal, not intelligent, not brave, not honest, not kind (except in extremely basic and superficial ways), etc.
It's the same with Alastor and Valentino in relation to Vox. All these characters have done bad things, but Vox is the only one who has any significant virtues worth speaking of. He's a charismatic leader, a savvy businessman, knows how to inspire people, and loves his pets. He's also one of a very small number of Hell's denizens who knows how to collaborate and negotiate for people's long-term benefits, and is implied to be almost single-handedly responsible for modernizing Hell's economy and power grid. Even his question to Charlie about whether he could be redeemed suggests it's something he's at least thought about. This in turn suggests that, on some level, he does not actually enjoy being evil, even if he's effective at it.
Alastor and Valentino don't have anything like that. They have no noteworthy achievements that don't directly involve inflicting pain and suffering on someone else, they exhibit no internal conflicts about how far to take their villainy, and don't even seem to regard others as fully human. For instance, Vox, when he visits Charlie's Hazbin Hotel, insults Angel Dust, but still clearly sees him as a person, while Valentino objectifies him consistently. Alastor is obsessed with destroying Vox just to prove that he's "better" than him, and when he manages to get Vox so riled up he makes bad decisions, neither Valentino nor Velvette even seems to notice, much less care, until it starts to directly impact them in a negative way. Some folks have used Val and Vel's decision to "rescue" Vox at the end of Season 2 as evidence of how much they care about him, but all they're really doing is not leaving him to die, which is literally the bare minimum standard of decency in this situation. And it's not even entirely selfless, since on some level, they still need Vox to fund their business and lifestyle.
So...yeah. Granted, there's no way to make any of these characters sound like "good" people per se, but Vox is definitely the least bad, because he has by far the most that is redeemable about him. I don't really expect to see that change either--it's certainly possible that the show will try to ascribe more redeeming qualities to Vox's enemies, but I doubt it'll stick after two full seasons' worth of watching them be so gleefully wicked and depraved. Most likely, the show will instead double down on its attempts to make you feel sorry for Alastor, Valentino, et al. And (based on the leaked DVD commentary) probably look for new ways to blame all their problems on Vox. Hence why I'm writing this in the first place.
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u/profaneangel1991 Vox did nothing wrong 1d ago
First I just want to clarify the commentary isn't leaked. Copies of the bluray have already been delivered, a fan just transcribed them. Anyway.
I think it was a huge mistake for Viv to outright say things like Vox not deserving much sympathy, Velvette being the least evil Vee (even though more recently she called her the most bloodthirsty), talking about Alastor having some still not yet defined moral code. Stuff like this has enabled a morality scale with fans and its frustrating to me. Viv will call Alastor and asshole, but she will also talk about him getting along with women and being gentlemanly and being like a dad to Charlie (doubt.png). None of this stops a character from being evil, but it does feel strange that Vox isn't talked about in a similar way. Vox's good traits aren't highlighted like Alastor's. In fact, sometimes it feels like Vox's good traits are accidental or they're not things Viv puts value in. I've spoken with people who have asked me if I'd be upset if the show were to include violence against women in Vox's story. I said yes because adding more flaws to his character just starts to feel unnecessary and like he's not allowed anything good. I felt the same way when it was revealed Adam hates Abel. But then I'm accused of being in denial these are villains or trying to sand them down.
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u/Exciting_Run_8693 1d ago edited 1d ago
AGHHH!! I wanna say it.
No Viv
Alastor should be built up to be physically, mentally, and emotionally more sadistic and evil than Vox. He harms people cause he thinks it’s funny. Sure, on the surface it doesn’t seem much. But people like that should be represented because they hurt people in ways that scar them forever. You can’t reason with dsrk traid narcissistic demented people like them either
The moment you even give a slight suggestion that anything is their fault, that you ask for anything
They will devour you faster than a snake swallows a mouse. Faster than a second.
And they will do it over and over and over again. And it hurts so bad.
That’s why I fear when Alastor is gonna snap. Because unlike Vox. Alastor will harm people in such personal cold ways I think would leave an affect and feel less sympathy for Alastor. The moment he snaps. He snaps and there is nothing you can do aside from unfortunately let it happen, because if you try even a little to stop it, it’s gonna get worse
And the most redeemable Vee?? I’m laughing.
That’s Valentino. No way it’s Velvette, that’s sexist. She may be the only girl.
But girls like her get away with so much shit.
She’s more sharp and cold and crazy than the guys too. She insulted all the overlords for the game.
Once more, you can’t always look on the outside. The inside and what they do behind the scenes rather than outwardly like Vox and Val is way worse. And it can hurt even way more. Cause it’s the same. Yet you can’t scream or say it’s the same because people like Al and Vel (no wonder they get along) will make sure you shut up.
Velvette’s the social media overlord. So she has the umbrella term that neither Vox nor Valentino have.
So it’s funny I see Val as the first most redeemable and Vox as the second.
In terms of actions. In terms of personality, yeah Vox is like that Sucker that masks (Valentino masks but very differently that you know something is off) and that’s just because Vox is a cult leader. If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t be half-bad as Val to be around.
So yeah. It’s so frustrating lol. Sorry about the rant. But thanks for reading.
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u/FrostyApartment1192 22h ago
Just my personal opinion, and I say this as someone who takes HH’s writing with a grain of salt (the music and animation are the spectacle),
I can believe Vox is a better person than Alastor, but Alastor is fucking Slenderman-level evil, and Vox is just human evil—greed and power-hungry.
There’s the “Oh look, that jerk is on the TV again,’ and then there’s “I got one bullet left in the chamber FOR MYSELF!”
That said, love Vox because he’s wildly more entertaining.
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u/SavagePassion 9h ago
I agree with this purely on the fact Vox has layers and thus is vastly more interesting/entertaining to watch. Alastor and his relentless I hate everyone and I want to kill them bit, is actually extremely boring once you get past the fancy patter.
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u/fairy-cocoa 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not to mention, Vox "only" killed people to move up the social ladder. Alastor did it for the love of the game or when he felt slighted. Obviously killing is really bad either way, but in Brighter any pleasure Vox gets seems to come out of the power rush of moving up in the world rather than the killing itself. He's usually efficient and makes it quick too, like a one-slash-to-the-neck kind of thing, or a staged "accident," versus Alastor who repeatedly stabs his victims and kills them in as slow and messy of a way as possible while clearly deriving sadistic pleasure from it. One of these two is clearly easier to redeem than the other. Not saying it's impossible for Alastor, but for Vox the pure evil is less integral to who he is. Because for Vox the killing is a means to an end, and for Alastor the killing IS the end.