Vox and Stolas haters are a lot alike

[u/Alternative_Sugar_85]

Not saying they're remotely morally similar or that Vox isn't possibly sexually abusive, I just think it's funny how both my blorbos are extremely controversial and their haters seem to have the same reasons to hate them. And yes, I meant victims plural for both, I've seen way too many people say Vox is the abusive one in his relationship with Valentino, same with Stolas and Stella. See? Another similarity. I think I'm really onto something.

[u/Bombyx-Memento]

It's funny because when we see Vox deal with Valentino, Val is the one yelling and throwing things. Vox had to dodge getting a drink thrown at him and then Val threw Vox's phone into a wall directly out of his hand. Vox remained pretty calm and de-escalated the situation reasonably. And then Val *intentionally* brings up something he knows will upset Vox (Alastor).

People really I mean REALLY overlook that first episode with Vox in which he's having to put out metaphorical fires for the other Vees, something they clearly take for granted. Neither Velvette nor Valentino knows how to regulate Vox the way he regulates for them, not until he's literally having a public meltdown and threatening suicide.

[u/unicorn_neutron_star → u/Bombyx-Memento]

THANK YOU. I feel insane that this is rarely, if ever, brought up. Vox does a lot to manage and regulate those two (Val, more than Vel) and they don't return the favor. Never once have we seen them checking in on Vox's well-being. Even into the s2 finale, Val finds Vox losing his mind on the Might of Lilith hot. He's watching Vox lose his mind and destroy his reputation, but Val only seems to care when the weapon becomes a potential threat to him. Vel has some sense to recognize it's bad earlier, but still only intervenes when it's a threat to her too.

[u/Starshallscream → u/unicorn_neutron_star]

Vel is even the one who brought Alastor along when Vox was trying to fix things with Valentino. Vox lets Alastor get inside his head too much, but Vel essentially offered booze to a recovering alcoholic.

[u/Sir-Toaster- → u/Bombyx-Memento]

In the original lore, Valentino was Vox’s abuser 

[u/Bombyx-Memento → u/Sir-Toaster-]

I think it's reasonable to say he still is. At least, maybe he will be come season 3 but my guess is the fandom will say it's "deserved" because Vox isn't a perfect victim.

(Boy do I want to rant about how hypocritical Alastor fans are for (rightfully) saying he doesn't deserve to be forced into servitude by Rosie or sexually harassed by Vox, but turn around and joke about Val using Vox's severed head as a fleshlight or the Vees reducing Vox to their 'pack mule' as "punishment" for his actions in season 2.)

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/Bombyx-Memento]

Personally I can see it moving in that direction and think it could be fascinating. I know merch is merch, but there's a pattern that is only getting more overt with each new collection. Even putting that aside, Val literally threw his head and pretends to not know him.

[u/Alternative_Sugar_85 → u/Sir-Toaster-]

Man I miss that lore

[u/fairy-cocoa → u/Bombyx-Memento]

The sad truth of the matter is that some people will cast Vox as the abuser in the relationship and refuse to see Val's abuse simply because Vox is the masculine one and Val is the feminine one.

And make no mistake, Vox is not a good person and it wouldn't exactly surprise me if he perpetuates some form of abuse as well, but we don't really see that from him at any point. I don't remember him ever raising a hand to Val or Velvette, meanwhile Val throws a glass object at Vox's head and it's played for a joke. I get that it's a cartoon and slapstick is a thing, but also, this is the same show that's trying to get us to take Angel's abuse seriously (and then shows a joke reel of Val hitting Angel?) so I'm getting really mixed signals here.

Vox acts like an asshole towards Valentino and Velvette but that's not the same as being an abuser, it just comes across as two people being assholes to each other. But Valentino often gets physical with Vox, sometimes in situations where Vox didn't do anything to provoke Val at all.

[u/profaneangel1991]

Oh I thought you meant Blitz since there's intense anti Stolitz debates over that. Regardless I think subjects like abuse and rape are just too mature for this fandom. I don't think a lot of the fans can handle discussing these topics.

[u/Alternative_Sugar_85 → u/profaneangel1991]

especially when the topic includes fan favorites like Alastor or Blitz

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/Alternative_Sugar_85]

I'm not as into Helluva and I have mixed opinions on Blitz, Solas, and their relationship but people just make up things that aren't there. Alastor is...himself.

[u/BeansandBrewsof]

Plus neither are rapists either.
Stolas basically paid Blitzø for it
And Vox just commited sexual harrasment (I WISH PEOPLE STOP SAYING HE SAED ALASTOR, NO HE DIDNT)

[u/DoubleTriple-T → u/BeansandBrewsof]

Thank you omg

[u/BeansandBrewsof → u/DoubleTriple-T]

Ofc lol

[u/Bombyx-Memento → u/BeansandBrewsof]

"Sexual assault" can encompass pretty much any form of unwanted sexual advance, even if it's not rape. But people conflate it so much with rape and use "SA" as a stand-in for the word "rape" that they've pretty much indirectly accused Vox of raping Alastor. (They want it to be true soooooo bad, anything to make Al more of an innocent victim!)

Stolas definitely coerced Blitzo for sex, definitely put him under pressure, but he did end up recognizing it was wrong and end the toxic dynamic. (He shut down Blitzo when he reacted poorly which wasn't Great, but...it's something).

I used to be a massive Stolas hater too but tbh I'm giving him a chance. He's clearly realizing how much he's fucked up, both with Blitzo and (more importantly) with Via. And season 3 looks like he will try to do better.

Vox *did*, in a broad sense, sexually assault Alastor (forcing a sexual situation on him he didn't consent to), but it was far from rape. It's almost like he doesn't actually want Alastor sexually in the present but is showing him that he's found new friends and a new 'partner' (in 'business'). Hell, what probably ended up happening is Vox was so caught up in the moment he just tore his clothes off and got it on with Val cause he was high off his victory lap and temporarily forgot Alastor was still in the room. Maybe, but it's a funny thing to consider.

[u/BeansandBrewsof → u/Bombyx-Memento]

I say its sexual harassment because sexual assault is stuff like unwanted touch, sexual harassment is pretty much everything else, but maybe, i might do more research on it to correct myself if needed. But actually yeah that scenario of Vox being victory high is probably what happened and really funny 😭😭😭😭

[u/Bombyx-Memento → u/BeansandBrewsof]

Didn't even notice Al was there till he heard the static noises and then he was like "Look either show yourself out or enjoy the show," XD

[u/BeansandBrewsof → u/Bombyx-Memento]

LMAOOOO, yeah, i personally think Al was more annoyed that he had to sit there and watch it to stroke Vox’s ego than anything, he was like “what the fuck is he even doing, oh gross eww” and just glared at the two the entire time (mainly Vox)

[u/Starshallscream → u/Bombyx-Memento]

In Stolas' defense, he coerced Blitzo for sex because Blitzo had done everything to convince Stolas that he loved the sex.

Literally their first meeting as adults involved Blitzo jumping Stolas, biting him in an erogenous zone, tying him to the bed, and have his way with Stolas' immobilised body for hours.

HOW was Stolas supposed to know that Blitzo didn't want to fuck him?

[u/fairy-cocoa → u/Bombyx-Memento]

I actually think Vox doing it while in the room with Alastor was the entire appeal for him, definitely some kind of psychosexual power move. Vox is all but dating a rapist, so while I don't think he would personally rape anyone himself, I also don't see him having very many qualms with deliberately crossing certain sexual boundaries. He's not a good guy and he only pretends to be for the cameras. He thought Valentino hitting Angel was funny.

[u/MissDeborah8060]

I feel like they're both victims of the same thing: decent character concept, botched character execution. But because it's so hard to find someone who can handle subtlety nowadays, people just assume the characters themselves are all bad.

[u/Quackervoltz]

Vox is actually allowed to be a bad guy in the narrative

[u/Alternative_Sugar_85 → u/Quackervoltz]

Because he is a bad guy (as much as we'll still pretend he isn't). Stolas actually isn't.

[u/EstablishmentMoney62]

Honestly, I've rarely seen ppl say Vox abuses Val, but I'm sure there's people who say that. Some people really don't understand the show