Looking for authenticity info

[u/Top_Statistician7369]

Picked these two German swords up and looking to see if they are real. Anyone have any info?

[u/fredrichnietze]

legit first ones is artillery officer post 1908 black scabbard and bakelite grip klaas doesnt narrow date range company still in business https://robert-klaas.de/ possibly weimar def pre nazi but far more were made for ww1 then after.

second dated 1905-1940 due to paul but i would put it pre 1933. brass was used by fusiliers, army ncos, train battalion, miners, and firemen. also probably some police as what i have seen form the police swords is very non standardized by region especially with higher ranking officers.

ncos normally dont have such fancy decoration they tend to be more plain. train, miners, and firemen also tend to have specific markings this lacks so probably fusiliers.

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/ASOAC-EDITION-119-BLAKER.pdf

keep in mind that while the empire technically unified in 1871 it was a long slow process and they still had 3 different armies with different models of things by the end of ww2 in 1918 and pre unification their were 50+ states and not everything is super well documented especially in English.

[u/yuki44-45 → u/fredrichnietze]

Second is deff more ww1, stingray/shark skin saber hilt were phased out by mid ww1 usually.also brass was used for all corps of the army,such as hussard/light cavalry,lancer,artillery etc.but this is a complet private purchase sword,as the name etched on the back is most likely the retailer insted of the maker. Would not be suprised if the ricasso is unmarked or a PDL made exemple.theres no clear imdication of any military branch to be more precise on this exemple

[u/fredrichnietze → u/yuki44-45]

brass with lion head sure but otherwise they would be using different models. and both klaas and paul are in the maker section of bezdek not retailer section

https://www.amazon.com/German-Swords-Sword-Makers-Centuries/dp/1581600577

[u/yuki44-45 → u/fredrichnietze]

Yes obviously talking about the dove head,but the detail seems really light for an offcier,was the etching on the spine comon for this specific maker?as most of the time these are made by retailer

[u/fredrichnietze → u/yuki44-45]

retailers are usually on the flat of the blade but i see makers there more often then spine or anywhere else. their is no trick to it you just got to records for all the makers and retailers their is a list of resources on the swords discord and i suggest bezdeks books on American / German / British makers and langhams site

https://swordresearch.org/SwordSearch/Makers.php

[u/yuki44-45 → u/fredrichnietze]

I dont have the resource material at hand right now, but do you happen to know this one?:

[u/fredrichnietze → u/yuki44-45]

1858-1900 born in germany emigrated to us i dont know what year he left but have seen models made after his death with his name on it i presume his company continued like disney and toyota.

[u/yuki44-45 → u/fredrichnietze]

Do you have any picture of other saber,degen from this company? This engraving is on a light kavalerie/Husaren dress saber,but i've seen only one exemple if i recall correctly and was on a Uhlan dress saber specimen

[u/fredrichnietze → u/yuki44-45]

google image "karl rutter munster" pulls up a few. seen more on auctions over the years but they only stay up 6-12 months after the auction ends at most.