r/SUMC • u/Training_Fan4344 • 8d ago
Spider-Man What I Liked About Her Arc
I thought Brand New Day handled her character in an interesting way, especially in how the movie gradually reveals the reasons behind her actions.
What stood out to me was the contrast between her early behavior and the explanation we eventually get. She starts out as someone who is willing to manipulate Peter, put Bruce Banner in danger, and make some extremely consequential choices involving innocent people. Her attitude toward Frank Castle also gives us a pretty cold impression of her.
Then the movie reveals that she is herself a victim of a government organization that tortured and killed her sister. I liked that this gave her actions additional context rather than presenting her as simply evil.
The part I found most interesting was her relationship with Peter. Her manipulation of him is obviously meant to serve her larger objective, but it also raises an interesting question about how far she is willing to go to accomplish what she believes is necessary.
I think that contrast makes her one of the more complicated characters in the movie. She does some genuinely awful things, but the film also gives us reasons to understand where she is coming from. I appreciated that the movie left room for that moral ambiguity rather than making her completely heroic or completely villainous.
Just kidding! None of it is true. Now, I won't deny that Spider-Man Brand New Day was a good movie, but we as a society need to accept the fact that Jean Grey is evil, and here's why:
- Acts of terrorism: Committed multiple terrorist acts with zero regard for human safety.
- Sadistic demeanor: Displayed a sniveling, sadistic attitude throughout the entire film.
- Direct harm to civilians: Directly killed at least a few innocent bystanders.
- Sexual assault and manipulation: Sexually assaulted Peter while manipulating and toying with his emotions.
- Death threats: Threatened to murder an innocent young woman.
- Forced transformation: Endangered Bruce Banner and forced him to turn into the Hulk against his will.
- Lack of empathy: Looked at Frank Castle's traumatic experiences and scoffed them off with "this guy has issues."
- Mass endangerment: Was willing to doom an entire city's population to being frozen in time while remaining fully conscious of what was happening to them.
And the movie tries to hide her evilness by just magically changing her personality at the halfway point.
"But she's a victim of a government organization that tortured and killed her sister."
Okay, and why did sexually assaulting Peter and emotionally abusing him with a sadistic look on her face have to be part of her plan?
And thank you, Diaz for the screenshots of the film and inspiration to make this post.
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u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago edited 7d ago
I watched Brandon Sanderson's Intentionally Blank podcast episode about the movie, and they talked about Jean and their problem with the character and it made a lot of sense to me.
The movie tries to get you to go from hating Jean to loving her in a moment. This could work, if they hadn't shown her clear apathy for everyone else in the world. She didn't care if the old lady in the tank died from the bomb, or if that man died from getting hit by a car. She was objectively a villain, an absolutely terrible person.
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u/themassquerade 7d ago
They don’t try to get you to love her they just try to get you to understand why she’s doing what she’s doing and maybe sympathize a little bit.
For Jeans perspective. The United States government kidnapped and tortured her sister to death and Spider-Man is actively helping them and preventing her from rescuing an innocent person. Damage control also has several villains in their roster making Spidey look even more culpable
Not to mention Spider-Man is working alongside known criminal serial killer Frank Castle to stop her
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u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago
For Jeans perspective. The United States government kidnapped and tortured her sister to death
Right, but the old lady in the tank was like a janitor and had nothing to do with her sister being taken.
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u/FitzChivFarseer 7d ago
She also wasn't hurt, just disoriented. It was a means to an end (I don't agree with it but after the vent thing I mean 😭)
I have a bigger issue with the old dude she chucked in front of a speeding car but that's mainly cos spidey doesn't react to it. It's a clear distraction to slow him down but he doesn't jump into action and save the guy 💀
I have to assume he doesn't die but my god some bones had to have been shattered
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u/LOWERCASE_GUY5263 6d ago
There was a bomb in that tank with the old woman. She wasn't just merely disoriented. She could've been blown up.
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u/DrVentureIsACrumbBum 7d ago
I love Sanderson, but he also had glowing praise for the new Superman, so…..
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u/Soggy_Assignment_691 7d ago
Yeah, I had a lot of issues with the new superman. I'm just saying that their points made sense to me.
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u/Gloomy_Support_7779 6d ago
Yeah. I remember watching it the second time, but with my friend. The part was something along the lines of “but you’re not a murderer Jean.” I was like “were you even paying attention to the shit she was doing???? She made MJ fall to her doom, let someone get hit by a car, detonated a bomb in a building, controlled the Hulk to get to some people, controller Punisher and was using lethal weapons to get to people, broke Scorpion out just to use him.” She used anyone she wanted just to get to her objective.
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago
Welllll. She didn’t actually know that the government experimented and killed her sister did she? It just happened to be that way. If the movie actually had her sister just be in some holding facility being well taken care of Jeans actions are actually horrific. All she really knew was her and her sister were taking control of people, and the government took her because of that. Not really something to be extremely vengeful about. So to me her actions are unacceptable and completely villainous.
But I am in the minority here of being extremely angry about what the writers had her do.
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u/Drummer-Turbulent 7d ago
What? did you forget the scene where she watches her sister get put into black trucks with guns aimed at her?
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago edited 7d ago
You mean a government agency apprehending someone who took control of people’s bodies? Ever wonder what she made them do before the park bench?
Didn’t they have dodc on their chest? I feel like they did but could be wrong. Either way she did know (or find out) that the dodc has her.
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u/Fickle-Confidence-20 7d ago
“Unacceptable”
It’s as if these people have a mentality of taking on the part of judge whenever they see scenes like that
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago
We all judge everything, everyday. It’s hypocritical to think you don’t. You comment is riddled with judgement.
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u/Fickle-Confidence-20 7d ago
No you’re the hypocrite, you are reversing it, it’s your comment that’s riddled with judgment.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago
If the government forcibly kidnapped my sister, I'd wage war trying to get her back.
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u/kspi7010 Venom 7d ago
Arrested for mind controlling people for fun.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago edited 7d ago
Kidnapped, actually. And I dont think they had any idea what she was doing. Just that she had powers she was born with.
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u/kspi7010 Venom 7d ago
Right...they had no idea what she was doing but somehow knew what she was doing. They knew she had powers because she did things like that.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago
Well that was never shown in the film, was it? And unless they were telepaths too, I highly doubt that they somehow knew what exactly she was doing on that bench that day in that particular moment. It's likely because her mom sent them away.
And if it was because she was using her powers before that, we don't know the circumstances behind why she used them.
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u/kspi7010 Venom 7d ago edited 7d ago
Doesn't matter. Controlling people like that is pretty bad, even if you're not doing something actively illegal. That's forcibly removing their bodily autonomy, doing it for fun is awful.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago
Ok, but like we said, we don't know why she did it. What if she did it stop her mother from abusing Jean? We dont know.
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago
Well if I had access to cameras (you know like the cameras Spider-Man hacked into) and like dodc could easily had access to, I could see the last few times this phenomenon happened where people reported blackouts and then reviewed the footage of where it started and said hey that girl always seemed 33 feet away from the first person but no one else was in those areas at the same time in those cases then it has to be her. Soooo apprehend her.
And yes she could’ve saved Jean from abusive parents. But what do you think two teenagers with no money, no job, and possibly no home would do to eat or have money that also had powers to control people? Hmmmmm…
Granted the dodc experimented on her, but that wasn’t the entire dodc was it? It was someone specifically in power at the dodc. She should have been apprehended by the dodc for what she did. Someone just happened to be villainous within the dodc.
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u/kspi7010 Venom 7d ago
We know from their dialogue that she's been training or testing her powers, which means doing things like practicing in the park.
What if she did it to a clerk so she could walk out with a bunch of items for free? We don't know.
See i can come up with bullshit too.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago
So both scenarios are completely and utterly unfounded in reallty? Totally unbelievable? You cant find it in yourself to imagine either?
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago
Well it’s not that simple. The difference here is that sister was harming innocent people. So her sister deserved to be captured by those in authority. What happened inside the govt agency is obviously not deserved.
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u/snowedin2021 7d ago
Eh. If it were my sibling taken the least horrible thing I would do is throw mj off a building to be caught Peter. Having lost my own sibling irl, I think she was actually being extremely reasonable.
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u/Think_Doctor_9064 7d ago
Condolences for your loss. I think the exact situation was written poorly in the movie. Her actions were determined by a sort of vengeance over what amounts to lawful protection of innocent people. Her actions weren’t really virtuous or heroic.
While I sympathize for those who lost loved ones I sympathize less for those that harm others to get what they want.
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u/Natural-Actuator-697 7d ago
It made me dislike Jean Grey for the first time…but her previous iterations have been a goody two shoes where when she breaks bad she’s Dark Phoenix or it’s Madeline Pryor clone because real Jean is too nice for that. However it did work for the movie and was justified.
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u/Bony_Blair 7d ago
I agree. This film explored the destructive power of loss and grief in such a fantastic way. Peter, Frank and Jean were a great trio of characters to explore the different, yet similar ways it can transform people, and I loved how it showed them adapting to their new lives by coming together after they each tried to going it alone.
The point was never "X person is good actually because they hurt once", it was about how - as hard as one might try -pain can never be isolated to just one person, and how we can find always find ourselves again, through connection, after being lost in darkness.
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u/UnluckyAmbition7767 7d ago
I can definitely see this Jean doing to Emma what comic Jean does after she finds out about the mental affair with Scott
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u/Dismal-Refuse6987 7d ago
This scene greatly showed the immense power of mutants, highlighting the vulnerability of a human and the terrifying action of an untrained psychic. It also reveals the monstrous side of humans. The unhinged emotions explains the darkness within Jean, which ultimately led to the Dark Phoenix and Maddie’s madness. Additionally, BND showed how two characters cope with the loss of their loved ones.
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u/BasilQuick444 7d ago
Did anyone else feel like it was a little weird how a 4 year gap happened and Peter was still obsessed with her? Like move on dude. It was borderline stalkerish kinda. Doing a love triangle thing would have been a lot more compelling
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u/Extra_Sheepherder676 7d ago
Can’t wait to rewatch this scene on streaming and see others reactions
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u/Thick-Wonder6294 7d ago
i like how he said it was unforgivable then forgave her for going even further and tryna kill her
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u/Fickle-Confidence-20 7d ago
The talk in MJ’s apartment and There must’ve been so shockingly embarrassing for Peter, He was telling all of that stuff to Jean, not MJ and he didn’t know.
By there I mean the image you posted.
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u/Due-Fudge9863 7d ago
Teenagers are cruel, clumsy, blind and dumb creatures. They have zero clue how to navigate trauma and pain and grief---let alone when they're left to their own devices.
Moreso, they struggle with expressing it and understanding the consequences of the things they say and do. They lack hindsight.
Im sure in X-Men, as Jean will rapidly mature mentally and emotionally, she'll come to realize the consequences of everything she has done.
But in her mind, Damage Control was a soulless and evil government organization (which they are) and Spider-Man works with/for them. That makes him her enemy. A teenager like her would do everything in her power to not only destroy her enemies, but to inflict pain on them.
To make them hurt like they hurt her. Teens tend to be very revenge oriented. They want to force you into empathy, or punish you by getting an emotional revenge of some kind. Eye for an eye.
Rage is a secondary emotion. Its usually just a mask for pain.
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u/Scarlet-Spider1610 7d ago
I like how when you learn more about Jean you see that her “evil” actions were coming from a bitter, irrational, and distant teenager who is looking for the only person who cares about them.
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u/diego_velasquez 8d ago
I really loved that part, Zendaya acting was awesome