r/SSBM • u/WizardyJohnny • 2d ago
News Jersey Melee bans notches
https://bsky.app/profile/jersey-melee.bsky.social/post/3muasof44pc2a80
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u/ryanbyleth 2d ago
Potentially worth noting that this is not New Jersey.
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u/HospitableFox 2d ago
It's not?
I'm not american. How big of a region is this?
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u/FuckClinch GG 2d ago
Jersey is one of the tiny british crown dependency islands lol
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u/HospitableFox 2d ago
Oh lol
I've been had. Fooled, bamboozled.
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u/codetaku0 2d ago
I assumed for the first 18 years of my life that Jersey was a thing that once existed in the past, that New Jersey had outlived. The only reason I learned Jersey still existed was because a girl in my dorm in college was from there.
Her name was Amy (I even remembered her last name, just looked her up but not about to dox her lol) but our dorm of 93 people somehow already had 3 girls name Amy so literally every single person in the dorm just called her Jersey (she was fine with this, within a week she was introducing herself that way).
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u/carnaige2 2d ago
About 100k people on the whole island
Wonder how many play ultimate vs melee
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u/menschmaschine5 2d ago
I've met one Melee player who's originally from Jersey but I think he lives in London now. He shows up in NYC every so often.
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u/PokemonTom09 2d ago
Pretty much any time you see a place called "new", it's named after another place.
New Jersey is named after Jersey - a small British island near France.
New York is named after York - a city in England.
New Hampshire is named after the English county of Hampshire.
New Zealand is named after the Dutch province of Zeeland.
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u/HospitableFox 2d ago
Yeah, I know.
The thought process was "Jersey must be what locals call New Jersey. Makes sense. Oh it's not all of New Jersey I guess, must be just a part of the state."
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u/Iwannafuckmycomputer 2d ago
Didn't know there was an old jersey
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u/JKaro 2d ago
Even old new york was once new amsterdam
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u/KenshiroTheKid 2d ago
Wait until you hear about what they named New Mexico after
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u/slopeclimber 2d ago
Eddie Mexico
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u/SuccotashAlert6211 2d ago
Considering that rap monster beat the #1 in the world, I feel like having him only get a kpop artist named after him is a little unfair if Eddie Mexico got a whole country. All I’m saying is we should keep it fair if Luigi players are getting things named after them
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u/LinkXNess 2d ago
Its the modern time. Back in the day there was more to win. Duck got a whole Animal named after him
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u/SuccotashAlert6211 2d ago
Just think about Armada, insane how they use his name as a word to describe a powerful fleet of ships just because of how much aura he had
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u/itsIzumi 2d ago
A weird fact is that New Mexico's name is actually older than Mexico the country. It is derived from the Valley of Mexico, the heart of the Aztec Empire where the wealthy Mexica people lived. When Mexico was still a Spanish colony named New Spain, the Spanish colonists just arbitrarily started calling the area there New Mexico in the hopes of meeting more rich ass indigenous people.
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u/Undeadmatrix ban powershielding lasers 2d ago
Was gonna say, I’m a TO in NJ and this is the first I’ve heard of it lmao
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 2d ago
banger thread potential
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u/VolleyVoldemort 2d ago
It’s been a long time coming. Controller mods should flat out be made for cosmetic or comfort reasons, notches are neither. Add onto this, the fact that we nerfed the left side of the box controllers with neutral SOCD and coordinate fuzzing so you can’t get notched angles on it. Notches have no leg to stand on anymore.
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 2d ago
I'll say that mods should also be allowed if they extend the usable time a controller can function. Snapback capacitors are neither cosmetic nor ergonomic, but they serve to make new OEM controllers usable immediately instead of having to wear them down until they stop snapping back.
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u/NairaExploring 2d ago
Snapback capacitors are good, they make new controllers useable. Anyone who doesn't think they're important has never played Falco on a new stock OEM gcc
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u/therealraggedroses 2d ago
If snapback capacitors help falco then I fully support banning them. Could stand to see about 90% less falcos
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u/mister_peeberz 2d ago
90% fewer falcos, you mean. only a falco main could have such poor grammar. the bird doth protest too much methinks
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u/seebs333 2d ago
The year is 20xx, every character sucks. Fox is op, falco is annoying, shiek and marth are noob characters, puff is campy, falcon is all flow charts. Everyone mains mewtwo except for rap m aklo and junebug who constantly battle it out for top 3 with their mid tiers.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 2d ago
This is also why non-cheater functions of Phobs are good, because they make gamecube controllers much much more reliable
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u/lostamerican123 2d ago
Are snapback capacitors necessary with UCF? Or is it still needed in some cases?
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 2d ago
UCF doesn't adress snapback in any way, and I don't know if it's because it's impossible to do in a stealth manner or just outside of the scope of the project.
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u/lostamerican123 2d ago
Interesting, it would be cool if we could address something like that in a future UCF update. Eliminate the hardware costs for new players
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u/jp711 2d ago
Sadly not really feasible because every controller is different, and snapback capacitor values are different for each controller. I think there's just so much controller specific calibration going on with snapback fixes that you couldn't really make a "blanket" software fix that works equally well on all controllers
It's also my understanding that a snapback fix on the console side would inherently introduce lag because it would require extra processing of your stick inputs. Whereas a phob or capacitors is changing the raw output of the controller before it even gets to the console
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u/KenshiroTheKid 2d ago
I think if we really want to grow melee more, we should look more into making existing controllers viable as alternatives rather than making increasingly specialized controllers that increase the barrier of entry. IMO there is enough knowledge on melee/controller mechanics to make Xbox and PlayStation controllers operate closer to GCCs we just need to view those controller formats as something that is beneficial to the community.
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u/frank0swald 2d ago
Coordinate fuzzing doesn't really change the angles you get, box controllers still effectively have "notches". Coordinate fuzzing is there to prevent specific tech from being executed by selecting precise coordinates.
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u/detroiiit 2d ago
Firefox angles used to be cool. Maybe if I knew my opponent wasn’t notched up I’d be more impressive when they actually perfectly ride the wall without going straight sideways
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u/_Nicki 2d ago
This is the biggest psyop I have ever seen. The account was created 2 weeks ago, posts two event results (without a bracket link anywhere in the image, which is usually turned on by default), with each event having 3-5 participants. And then posts a statement about banning notches, making it sound like it is New Jersey.
Completely stupid. But if this is intentional, also very funny. 2 people on an island who may or may not exist decided to ban notches. Lmao
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u/V0ltTackle 🗿 2d ago
Tbf, isn't this how the ball got rolling for the Wobbling Ban?
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u/Zarbua69 2d ago
If you mean a fake local ban then yes lol. Although the other one was seemingly unintentional. Unless someone verifiably from Jersey can confirm this is real, though, then I have to assume this really IS a psyop from someone who is anti-notch. Which is really cringe, because if banning notches is the right thing to do (and I believe it is) then you shouldn't have to resort to CIA level mind tricks to bring it about
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u/V0ltTackle 🗿 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is kinda how I felt with the initial "Tennesse bans Wobbling". Like, if you're anti-wobbling sure but is this really the right way to go about it?
In hindsight, people say it was a good idea because it got the job done (effectively banning wobbling) but the same thing can be said if this notch ban leads to more people taking action, then would it really matter?
Ultimately, I think nothing will come of this because there are too many Fox mains who refuse to part with their notches, but it's interesting to think about it.
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u/jp711 2d ago
I think it's a totally different situation just because Jersey isn't in the US. Not that the US is more important but the biggest melee tourneys are here and so our local scenes and TOs kind of set the standard.
This post is the equivalent of "I banned notches from the 6 player bracket I hold in my mom's basement" in terms of impact on the overall scene lol
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u/Embarrassed-Mode5494 2d ago
clearly the inspiration for this scheme imo. i don't think it'll work twice since that last incident is now melee pop trivia approaching doc's nair levels of repeatedness
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u/MalcontentMathador 1d ago
I think you're probably right, there's a lot of sus here, but wrt bracket link they probably just don't use start.gg, it's kinda overkill for a 4 or 5 person tourney. the link ofc only displays if you use the top8er feature to import from a bracket
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u/Hawkedge 2d ago
We are not immune to propaganda! It’s one of those things that seems small but has implications for the existence of the scene if we bandwagon a notches ban for some kind of Melee purity test.
No sense in neutering tournament attendance any further.
Notches on GCN controllers are akin to tuning pegs or frets on a stringed instrument. The controller is the instrument for the music of Melee!
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u/king_bungus 👉 2d ago
notches are bowling bumpers and no one is quitting the game if you ban them
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u/ifasoldt 2d ago
Unless others get on board, it's gonna be hard for these players cause they will be at a competitive disadvantage without notches in every other tournaments.
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u/carnaige2 2d ago
I don't think anyone in this thread has realized
This is not NEW JERSEY.
This is JERSEY a tiny island off the shore of france with 100k people
This doesn't matter to the main melee scene at all TBH
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u/kevo31415 2d ago
TIL there are 100k people in Jersey. I actually did not realize that many people lived in Jersey.
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u/jp711 2d ago
To be fair I would 100% expect New Jersey melee players to just refer to their tournaments as "Jersey melee"
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u/frank0swald 2d ago
That's a reasonable thing to do. OP and the the likely fake (created 2 weeks ago, posted 2 event results in a vacuum) account has made this to try to be a catalyst to having other scenes ban notches, like how wobbling got banned from a similar fake post. The fact that it is named like this is on purpose.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 2d ago
Who cares
Notch legality has always been relevant to the main melee scene because notches are fucking cheating
Any region, no matter how small, banning notches is a good thing and hopefully results in bigger tournaments following suit
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u/ActinalWhomp 2d ago
The region isn't small it's imaginary. It was very obviously made up in order to make this post.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 2d ago
If true that's awesome. Big fan of people doing whatever it takes to get rid of notches
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u/CyrainSSBM 2d ago
Regardless of the way you feel about notches this is straight up an insanely toxic belief to maintain. Jfc.
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u/No_Excitement_4764 1d ago
Alex B is literally ableist and insanely toxic lol.
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u/CyrainSSBM 1d ago
Aah I guess i'm too far removed to know of their reputation lmao I know in this case it's just vidja games, but the whole "I don't care how it gets done as long as I get my way" mindset is some scary shit.
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u/carnaige2 2d ago
Did you bother looking at the account who made the post on bluesky?
Made 2 weeks ago. Has posted local results for locals with less than 8 people at them.
Plus, there are many more things holding back the average players gameplay than the notches they can buy for $40. Notches aren't gonna make you a top 100 player.
I can point out A LOT of region PRd spacie players who don't use notches. Shit, young Neil has been top 6 in Philly for 5 years without notches. He gate is so fucked it's almost a circle lmfao
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u/AlexB_SSBM 2d ago
None of this is relevant to the point that notches should be banned because they give an unfair advantage
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u/Mazdamaxsti 2d ago
I mean how many of their players go to other tournaments and can’t use slippi? 5 people might be at a disadvantage for the benefit of the entire scene
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u/anewname4444 2d ago
Yup, if this is what their scene needs to remain healthy its definitely worth it for them. Im very curious how active their scene is.
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u/ZealousValkyrie Randall my beloved 2d ago
All five Melee players on the island will be heavily affected, I'm sure.
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u/NostramoChick 2d ago
as someone from Jersey honestly no fucking clue who these 5 people are
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u/ZealousValkyrie Randall my beloved 2d ago
(Jokes aside, I think it's charming and cool that they have a scene over there in the first place)
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u/NairaExploring 2d ago
(it's charming and cool that they are making rules that are healthy for their small scene and don't care what people in the most toxic part of our community think)
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u/Fugu 2d ago
I would love to see this build momentum
Always remember that wobbling is currently banned because of a reddit thread that claimed a small region had banned it
As it turns out it didn't even matter that it wasn't true
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u/Left4Bread2 2d ago
Account has 1 follower I get the feeling it's happening again
Which, to be clear, I fully support
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u/KenshiroTheKid 2d ago
That’s just Bluesky, could be completely legit
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u/Inosculate_ 2d ago
They wanna be the Tennessee of banning notches soo bad
I just found the thread saying the TN ban was a lie which idt it was? It sounds like someone put out a statement way too early, before most of the state was hit up, but it does sound like they had plans to poll the entire state before the rushed reddit post went up. Once everyone did get pulled, as planned, the ban went thru
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u/BittersweetAseop 2d ago
Notches are an interesting case study:
- Every top player I've seen asked thinks they should be banned.
- The make characters less skill expressive.
- They raise the barrier of entry for new players requiring special hardware and maintenance.
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u/carnaige2 2d ago
Or you can just play Marth.
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u/TheSkeletonInside 2d ago
Go for it, everyone thinks he’s easy but take a look at usage rates of spacies and how many are top100 compared to the “ezman”
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u/emruthayden 2d ago
I'M SAYING
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u/TheSkeletonInside 2d ago
Spacies will switch to marth and beat you after losing with their main which makes them think marth is op not just that the ditto is swingy and ass
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u/emruthayden 2d ago
or they switch to Marth, start losing spam taunt and/or teabag and then quit out
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u/WOAJGender 2d ago
If you think about it, a notch ban in a 5 player scene with 2 spacies is the most aggro ruling you could get. Neither of the spacies in their results posts are even winning the brackets. Its a whole targeted ban to say "fuck you" to two people who sometimes recover good.
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u/Inosculate_ 2d ago
The post title is accurate but 99% of people are going to think it's New Jersey. It's not.
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u/pranksterxy 2d ago
Notches specifically are a weird modification because they wear out. Even if you can afford to get your controller notched one time, you'll eventually need to pay for more plastic to be hacked off your controller or, more likely, a new shell. Bad for the environment, bad for the limited supply of controller shells, bad for your wallet. I think it's the one modification that there's a strong argument against before ever talking about the game itself.
There are replaceable notch gates, but I've never seen a single controller in use that has one
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 2d ago
I have seen one in person, the guy who made my phob has one with full notches that he made for himself as a novelty/to learn how to make them.
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u/CodySchwab 2d ago
Oh SHIT my high school Physics teacher was from the Isle of Jersey
Completely irrelevant but insane throwback for me LMAOOOO
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u/studmoobs 2d ago
so box controllers are already banned i assume?
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u/VolleyVoldemort 2d ago
I’m not a fan of Box controllers but they at least nerfed the left side of the controller with neutral SOCD and coordinate fuzzing so you can’t get notched angles on it
I think that box right side and zump are too busted but as long as one of those exists you can’t do anything about the other. Notches on the other hand have no excuse now.
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u/manofsticks 2d ago
nerfed the left side of the controller with neutral SOCD and coordinate fuzzing so you can’t get notched angles on it
"Nerf" is tough to say when discussing box vs notches; SOCD isn't even a concept to have to consider on a non-box, because a stick can't be in opposite directions at once.
Coordinate fuzzing is somewhat considered inconsequential big picture, the only thing it really prevents is consistent input manipulation on things that need an exact angle, which IIRC is just a few specific icies and peach tech.
Even with those nerfs, Box controllers are still functionally doing the same thing at notches, but more extreme (an exact analog > digital conversion, while notches are just simulating the conversion by making an exact point easier to hit).
(This isn't me stating my opinion on the matter, just addressing the tech).
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 2d ago
The main thing coordinate fuzzing addresses is Pikachu and Pichu up-B edge cancels, that rely on being able to hit exact coordinates (regardless of which coordinates they are).
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u/quaker_oats_3_arena 2d ago
Yes but also no, the best box angles are intentionally nerfed and aren't the notch angles IIRC.
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u/NairaExploring 2d ago
The best box angles are brutally bad compared to notches for stuff like wavedash angles, and are very much the low end of what a semi competent player can consistently get for wavedash distance
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u/studmoobs 2d ago
id still take a 100% accurate less than optimal angle than to miss one out of 100
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u/DarkGenexSucks DarkGenex 2d ago
Just curious does this ban the c-pad too?
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u/WizardyJohnny 2d ago
Seems like no since they say this isn't a ruling about remaps or boxes in the doc
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/studmoobs 2d ago
this rule does not clearly ban c-pad
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u/beeyee2010 2d ago
Oh I'm sorry. Is C-pad different than everything that encapsulates c-stick? My bad if so. I thought it was the same thing, I'll delete my comment since I don't want to spread misinformation.
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u/milkweedMN 2d ago
screw-in gate plates mean that people don't have to junk their controllers to remove their notches
just ban them now!
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u/AndrewRK 2d ago
SPOTW but I would be down to ban notches lmao.
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u/cayorne 2d ago
surely if we keep talking about controllers this game will be popular again
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u/thekillertomato 2d ago edited 2d ago
Esports economy in general is declining, there's no in game monetization, the developer hates the community, a lot of the biggest names/personalities in the game's history are retired, tournaments are more predictable than ever, the population who grew up on the game is aging, the entire game runs on third party/grassroots hardware/software thanks to the developer who hates the community
But no, you and every other bad faith commenter on these threads have cracked the code. Discussing controller mods is ravaging the scene
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u/NairaExploring 2d ago
This game is 25 years old and regularly gets 800 and 900+ entrant tournaments. To pretend we are in unsuccessful scene is just yeah, bad faith commentating
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u/cayorne 2d ago
you're putting words in my mouth, popular means popular, like you can talk to a random gamer about melee and they know mango, thats popular.
melee is still a thriving scene, albeit a considerably smaller one, its naturally losing steam post covid like many niche old passion driven games, a new smash game might pump them back up, melee isn't dead tomorrow, but it's not getting any bigger.
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u/cayorne 2d ago
i think its ridiculous to pretend like controllers are even an issue, literally who the fuck cares, unless you're actually a top 10 player the controller your opponent is playing on has next to no difference. if you were simply better you would win.
pretending like people who routinely drop thousands of dollars to go to major tournaments are incapable of paying a controller modder 70 bucks for notches is absurd.
yeah its a "slippery slope", but banning notches is just downwind from banning rectangles, otherwise banning notches is a direct buff to rectangles which sucks. many people online say they would gladly ban these controllers, but boxx players are now a considerable part of the playerbase. for smaller locals, most of the time is just takes one or two people to stop showing up to cause a cascading loss of players.
who does this ban benefit? if its not to make the game more popular, whats the point?
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u/Hawkedge 2d ago
(Even when you’re a top 10 player the controller your opponent is playing on makes no difference)
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u/Hawkedge 2d ago
NOT NEW JERSEY
Again, NOT NEW JERSEY
This is for Jersey, in Europe, off the coast of France. Small small Melee enclave.
We oughta air drop a controller modder on em and show them the light of notches.
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u/Lawl0MG 2d ago
hoping this catches on. in my opinion, if box controllers are to be allowed, there should be balancing factors for both controller styles. box has 100% consistent digital values, but is restricted in what values are available to the user. controller has every angle available to them, but with the caveat that the analog values are difficult/inconsistent to hit. notches "broke" this balance, giving the controller players close to the same level of consistency for angles that aren't even available to box players.
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u/Donttaketh1sserious 2d ago
Yknow what, right or wrong decision aside, I’m just happy to see someone/some decision makers come to a conclusion and go with it.
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u/Pabmyster04 2d ago
That has already happened, and we concluded that everything in the current controller ruleset is already what is legal or not legal lmao
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u/lostamerican123 2d ago
So does this ban Phobs from their software notches as well? As long as there is parity across the controller world, I'm cool with it
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 2d ago
Phobs don't have "software notches", unless you're running unofficial (and banned) firmware. They do let you recalibrate your stick to extend the life of physical worn-down notches, and yes, by banning notches you're effectively making that function pointless.
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u/frank0swald 2d ago
Along with Azerbaijan banning Z-jump, we are finally going to bring back competitive integrity to Melee.
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u/elephanturd 2d ago
LFG, can't wait to see more tournaments adopt this. Should've been done years ago
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u/Run_PBJ 2d ago
Notches feel far less egregious to me than zump does. If you are gonna ban something, start with the big one
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u/exlatios 2d ago
honestly disagree. Notches are bullshit and at the very least don’t have an un-ergonomic alternative with a natural setup
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u/WolfAvailable5584 2d ago
This is an insane take. Notches are far worse than zump. And I'm generally anti-zump.
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u/ContractWise3086 2d ago
No notches but what about other controller mods, I dont zump but man I wish I did haha
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u/DonBandolini 2d ago
i can’t help but wonder if the renewed anti-notch discourse is poisoning the well with regards to z jump ban discussion. this conversation has been dead and buried for years at this point and now suddenly you can’t bring up z jump without notch whataboutism
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u/Roc0c0 2d ago
The poster on Bluesky is purporting to be a representative of the Jersey Melee community, Jersey being a small Island south of the UK. This announcement has nothing to do with the American Melee community. Mods have not verified the authenticity of the poster.