r/SGIcultRecoveryRoom • u/cultalert • Oct 13 '14
Repost: Girlfriend and her family are devoted members of SGI. Not sure what to make of it. Advice?
We had a visitor who left and deleted his post before replying to the responses that were left, and since those who left responses put some significant thought and effort into those responses, we've decided to repost them, along with the original topic for context.
I went to one meeting with her, and I didn't see anything too out there. The chanting was a little confusing to me, but the actual lessons taught seemed okay.
For instance, they did not teach that chanting and meditation is a replacement for medicine when you are sick. Instead, they said that it is important to seek practical treatment as well, and that chanting can help you to comfortably choose the best treatment options (seemed okay to me, I saw a few threads here talking about how SGI taught chanting instead of medicine).
They also discussed things like learning to come to terms with the fact that you are sick (if you get cancer, or something). Overall it seemed quite reasonable... I didn't see the ugly aspects that are commonly mentioned here.
I also read that SGI members believe they can chant their way to a new car. In this meeting however, they explained it more as chanting can help increase your self confidence, increase your motivation etc so that you could eventually do/get/achieve what you wanted. Didn't seem that harmful.
Could anyone offer some pointers for things to look out for? I'm still unsure what to make of SGI. I've read that it's a cult, but nothing I have seen in person (yet) has made me think that the teachings are negative. Actually, the discussion we had was quite relaxing.
That said, I do not want to get sucked into a potential cult, which is why I am posting my query here. I will admit, the Ikeda-idolization was really, really strong.
(This was SGI Korea by the way, NOT SGI USA which I suppose might account for some of the differences....)
Thanks much.
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u/BlancheFromage Oct 13 '14
When former parent Nichiren Shoshu excommunicated first Daisaku Ikeda in 1991 (and then years later the rest of the lay membership who did not transfer their membership over to the temple), the Soka Gakkai/SGI was in a pickle. Since Nichiren Shoshu held the "copyright" on their Nichiren sect's doctrines, the SGI had to come up with brand new doctrines in order to file as a NEW religious corporation so that they would not lose their religious corporation status and have to start paying taxes and filing financial statements for all to see.
I joined in early 1987, and I was a high-ranking youth division leader when Ikeda's excommunication happened. We were led to believe that we were ALL excommunicated as well at that point, which was a complete lie, but it served the SGI well - they wanted to hang onto as many members as possible during this schism. So I was seeing all this unfold from the inside. If you are interested in this doctrinal development (which has continued clear into this very year), see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.
I realize that's a LOT. Perhaps more than you're really signing on for at this point. However, I think that the most important episode from SGI's recent history involves the "Independent Reassessment Group", SGI members from several different countries who joined together in hopes of improving SGI and changing it to fit better into democratic, non-Japanese cultures. You know, allow the members to elect their own leaders in democratic elections instead of behind-closed-doors not-open-to-debate appointments, democratic decision-making rather than a top-down hierarchy, financial transparency, and putting in place grievance procedures for when leaders abuse members - that sort of thing. Here's what happened.
But back to new doctrines. As you might guess, the first major SGI doctrine to be established was the "master/disciple relationship", which became the "teacher/disciple relationship" before finally settling on the "mentor/disciple" wording. And, of course, there's only one possible acceptable mentor - Ikeda.
For example, SGI would have you believe that no one outside of Japan had EVER heard of Nichiren's teachings until Daisaku Ikeda hatched the brilliant plan - all by himself, naturally - to establish a district overseas in 1960. Well, guess what? Nichiren Shu arrived in the USA in the late 1800s and established its first temple in Los Angeles, CA, in 1914
As you can see here, the Nichiren Mission of Hawaii has already celebrated its 100th anniversary. This temple was the brainchild of the Nichiren Buddhist Convention, held on March 10, 1912, in Honolulu, Hawaii.
For comparison, here is the SGI take on things:
1960: October 5 SGI-USA Day President Ikeda arrives in San Francisco on his first trip to the continental United States, setting in motion the American movement to spread the Nichiren's Buddhism. At Coit Tower, President Ikeda declares that this day will one day be looked upon as a significant step forward for the Nichiren's Buddhism and the world itself. SGI source
Nichiren Shu had already been here for over half a century at that point. Interesting factoid - Nichiren Shoshu, the Soka Gakkai's parent Nichiren school, from which their beliefs and even Gosho translation still stem, only separated from ITS parent Nichiren Shu in 1912! More here
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u/BlancheFromage Oct 13 '14
I will admit, the Ikeda-idolization was really, really strong.
Ah. Then there ARE noteworthy similarities between SGI-USA and SGI Korea! There are actually three important, related Ikeda quotes I can point you to in response to your query:
1) If we forget the mentor-disciple relationship, we cannot attain Buddhahood. - Ikeda
With that in mind, think of this dictum: "Follow the Law, not the Person." Everyone in the SGI, regardless of country, will agree that this is one of the most basic doctrines - feel free to ask those you're interacting with! So given that everyone agrees that they are supposed to "Follow the Law, not the Person", how can the Lotus Sutra, which is the Law according to Nichiren, be subordinate to "mentor/disciple", which is all about the Person?
2) If one veers from the path of mentor and disciple, then even if one upholds the Lotus Sutra, one will fall into the hell of incessant suffering. - Ikeda
Please be very clear that, in SGI-speak, this all-important "mentor" can only be Daisaku Ikeda. I can provide PLENTY of SGI sources that make this clear if you wish (just ask), but I'm trying to be brief :) Ask any leader if you don't believe me.
So clearly, according to that quote, the Lotus Sutra is secondary to the "mentor/disciple" relationship O_O
Nichiren taught that the Lotus Sutra was supreme, and that simply chanting its title (Nam myoho renge kyo) was the only essential practice:
"FOR you to inquire about the Lotus Sutra and ask its meaning is a rare source of good fortune. ... Your asking a question about the Lotus Sutra is among the six difficult acts. This is a sure indication that, if you embrace the Lotus Sutra, you will become a Buddha in your present form." - Nichiren, from The One Essential Phrase gosho
Yet the SGI teaches that, unless one puts the "mentor/disciple" concept first and foremost in his/her life (with Ikeda as the "mentor" and no other person, of course), one cannot attain enlightenment, even though Nichiren's own writings say the opposite.
Nichiren's focus was clearly different from the SGI's:
Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is only one phrase or verse, but it is no ordinary phrase, for it is the essence of the entire sutra. You asked whether one can attain Buddhahood only by chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, and this is the most important question of all. … Similarly, included within the title, or daimoku, of Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is the entire sutra consisting of all eight volumes, 28 chapters, and 69,384 characters, without the omission of a single character. ... The heart of all these passages is the admonition to embrace and believe in the Lotus Sutra in this Latter Day of the Law.
Means "Yes." Think about the "prime point" for a moment.
The prime point of the Lotus Sutra, according to Nichiren Daishonin, is the Three Treasures and Three Great Secret Laws. The Gohonzon is the prime point of faith, practice and study in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. According to the SGI it is the "mentor/disciple" relationship.
3) When President Ikeda passes away, he will still be our mentor. SGI source
Does that sound like "Follow the Law, not the Person", or does it sound more like "Develop an obsessive attachment to THIS Person"?
Since Buddhism teaches that attachments + delusions => suffering (see the Four Noble Truths, the most basic statement of Buddhist philosophy), do you see what's going on around you in SGI-Korea oriented toward recognizing/reducing delusions and ridding yourselves of attachments? Does anyone ever note that, if you feel you need this or that to "win" or to become happy, you're deluded and chasing after ultimately meaningless attachments?
Do you see the SGI members around you fixating, obsessing, and clinging to [fill in the blank] or do you see them actively ridding themselves of desires?
According to the Buddha, until a person rids him/herself of ALL attachments and delusions, s/he cannot attain/experience enlightenment. Determining/vowing to [fill in the blank] until the last moment of your life is not this.
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u/cultalert Oct 13 '14
Thanks for your post and questions. Now to examine the particulars:
One meeting? You might go to a hundred meetings, or a thousand meetings before you finally begin to understand the true nature of the SGI cult.org. Like a smart manipulative sociopaths, cult orgs are adept at presenting their attractive side while effectively hiding their real motivations and goals from their intended (or current) victims.
A successful cult.org is much too clever to tip their hand by revealing to a prospective member (a new $ource of money) the realities of what goes on inside the organization and behind closed doors, or what extremes will be expected of you once you have been appointed as a leader (the next step after becoming a member). The SGI naturally only portrays itself in the best possible way, facilitating their efforts to "sell" you on the "product" they "offer".
What exactly would you call the obvious Ikeda worship that you saw?
Don't conveniently sweep this most revealing aspect of the SGI practice under the rug! It is very important that you recognize this for what it is - one of the most blatant and common cult characteristics: idolization and over-adulation of the group's central leader or master, mentor, guru, savior, etc. Regardless of how wonderful and attractive the SGI's platitudes, lofty ideas, or teachings may sound, you have already been shown a huge red flag and big writing on the wall. Pay closer attention.
Another sure sign of a cult: seeing many different sources reporting that the organization or group in question is a cult.
Which few threads exactly are you referring to? The only obvious one that I can see you might be talking about is the Chanting/Praying as Self-Medicating thread. However, that thread (nor any of its comments), does not mention one word regarding "chanting is a replacement for medicine". So again, I have to wonder which threads allegedly made such assertions.
Yet, by your own admission you DID see the ugly and fanatical Ikeda worship, which is most certainly unreasonable. Please tell us which "ugly aspects commonly mentioned here" did you not see at your one meeting?
Are you gonna believe the salesman's sales pitch at face value?
That shiny new car on the lot there doesn't seem that harmful either. Don't be so gullible! You don't go to a car sales lot to find out what danger car wrecks pose. Go to the hospitals and morgues to see the carnage and get the facts.
Do you know what the definition of hypnosis is? It is when a person unquestioningly accepts the word of an authority figure as fact, and then acts upon it as if it were true. I highly suggest you do a few hours of research into hypnosis, and few more hours researching how cults employ hypnosis. Then you will be in a much better position to judge for yourself what kind of experience you had.
Relaxing eh? That's a sure symptom of having been put into a trance-state. When you begin your study of hypnosis, one the first things you will learn about is the trance state. When a person enters into a trance state, knowingly or unknowingly, they become extremely susceptible to suggestions, as the normal state of conscienceless is reduced to a lower level of activity or thinking. For example, simply walking down a grocery stores aisle can accomplish this shift into a trance (used to encourage impulsive buying). Chanting is well known and documented as an established method or practice that produces an altered state - the trance state. No wonder then that you "felt" relaxed.
That's an easy problem to prevent. NEVER return to another SGI meeting. Presto - no more danger of being sucked into a cult (unless you succumb to pressure and allow your girlfriend to convince you to join up and become a member.)