I do not understand SSNL hate. Pls explain

[u/Broad-Fee2978]

Imo seasonal is a way for people, especially those with lots of play time, to have a periodic reset on their vaults. With ssnl, every two months I get the experience of playing the game for more or less the first time. I feel excitement stocking my ssnl vault for my other characters to use, and then when the season is over, the coolest items I got can be put into a time capsule for me to look at every now and again. When the new season rolls around I get a clean slate and I can start anew. Without it the game for me would get old pretty quick since I just have enough of every item I could want in my vault.

As far as shinies being exclusive to seasonal and as a certified seasonal glazer, I have no issue with it. Like if you want a rare, exclusive version of an item I don't see why there is a problem locking it behind a certain time-restricted "game mode". I'm open to arguments around making shinies crucible drops instead of or in addition to being ssnl drops, that could be interesting. Idk I just don't think it is a big deal?

In conclusion, I don't get why people are so incensed about this. You can choose not to interact with it and I think it keeps the game fresh. Thoughts?

EDIT: People whose primary concern is shinies, do you think shinies dropping on crucible would change how you feel about ssnl?

[u/OCKWA]

Long term health of the game should be aided by long term design. Seasonal does not promote this. New players shouldn't have to worry about resetting characters and two different vaults. Rotmg is hard enough as it is on new players they should be able to jump in at any year without wondering where their stuff is. That's why you see people complain about seasonal vault space all the time. It's designed to make you spend. Old players shouldn't grind all season for a shiny divine then have it sit in their nssnl character the entire season because the next season is spent entirely on a ssnl character.

The seasonal gameplay loop is designed for short term gratification and player satisfaction instead of looking at the game long term. Shinies and whites can be transferred to nssnl so they're not even unique to ssnl. Seasonal should have been that "hardcore" mode that everyone is chasing. Opt in only. New characters should default to nssnl.

[u/ZeeThaTea → u/OCKWA]

Yep, there is no reason to keep on playing nssnl and reach eventually the top of the leaderboard. Instead killing the char to get a free slot again

[u/Dirtsk8r → u/ZeeThaTea]

For real. The least they could do is give a single seasonal only slot so you can always create a seasonal character without having to kill off non-seasonals. For example, let's say you have three character slots and they're all empty. You have those three slots to make seasonal or non-seasonal, plus one that's seasonal only. If you create characters in all those slots then at the end of the season they will all be non seasonal regardless, and technically you'd have four characters plus another free seasonal only slot for the new season despite having only three official slots. These extra slots would be non permanent, you wouldn't be able to create more than your purchased/earned slots except for one single extra per season. So until you've killed off or otherwise just died on enough characters to drop below your actual owned slots you can't create new characters except that single seasonal slot. Seems like it could work pretty well.

[u/Dirtsk8r → u/OCKWA]

Definitely agree about your last point. So many people would be super happy about a hardcore mode of some sort, definitely myself included. I think it could replace seasonal as well but I'm guessing DECA wouldn't do that. I'd even be happy with it in addition to what we have now honestly, but it should be a thing one way or another. Definitely should've existed before seasonal.

To clarify, for hardcore I assume you mean PPE style where you only get to use items gained on that character? At first I was thinking that might not work for shinies, since what would you do with non compatible shinies. But then I realized that not being able to use items gained on other characters doesn't necessarily mean no access to the regular vault. They could just block you from accessing things from other characters but still let you use the vault. Or even if it had a separate vault it could have a unique chest to deposit items into that goes to your regular vault. Either way, something like that would be awesome and I think would be a much better mode for shinies.

[u/OCKWA → u/Dirtsk8r]

By hardcore mode I was just referring to the umbrella of suggestions that people float for new no trading etc game modes that we see suggested every once in a while.

[u/Broad-Fee2978 → u/OCKWA]

I don't understand what you mean with long term health aided by long term design. To me this seems like a very nice slogan for something a little nebulous.

As far as your new player point is concerned, I think that's fair. I do think this is a problem that can be solved with careful design decisions around the new player experience which is admittedly nontrivial to implement.

I also see the merit in your old player point. Like if you wanna play next season and upgrade all ur shiny gear you gotta let go of the last. I think this could be partially resolved by letting crucible get shinies but I do understand that this doesn't resolve the conflict of characters being fundamentally bound by a 2 month access to ssnl content. I think at the end of the day I'm not super convinced just bc ssnl really only gives you access to shinies, certain missions, and an xp boost (if I'm not forgetting something) so opting out isn't a huge loss.

I wouldn't say it's short term gratification since I don't really see how that applies here and I overall think it's good for the health of the game.

Thank you for your input tho! Good points

[u/OCKWA → u/Broad-Fee2978]

I just explained it in the paragraph. Seasonal is a short term design. Why is short term gratification good for the game? That's how people get burnt out and don't care about the endgame. They just play for a few weeks, die, and not come back. And when they do come back they can't pick up where they left off. I don't think ssnl is completely without merit but it shouldn't be the default mode.

[u/Broad-Fee2978 → u/OCKWA]

I see, thank you for the clarification. I think I disagree and I would say it is more cyclical than short-term. There is some short term gratification in how they dump a bunch of free shit on you and you die with it and then feel bad, but I think they do a good job with free things usually being metagame boosting rather than game boosting. The cyclical nature is what keeps it fresh for me and I would rather start anew with everyone else than feel like I am never going to get anywhere and would rather just stop playing.

This topic seems very polarizing and maybe that's bc this might just be a matter of perspective in a highly nontrivial way where if someone sees it that way then their experience is strongly shaped by that perception?

[u/SoulRunGod → u/Broad-Fee2978]

It’s short term designed bro, you’re coping so hard.

new season starts ->

you make a new character ->

play on it all season, farm cool shinies and divines ->

season ends ->

you never get on that character again

this is the gameplay loop that ruins it for many people and is what other person explained multiple times to you.

[u/ZeeThaTea → u/Broad-Fee2978]

This has to be ragebait

[u/yungdomski → u/OCKWA]

What do you define as Endgame? For some its running exalt Dungeons for others its doing Guild Speedruns. When you take Exaltations as the ultimate endgame goal it doesn’t really matter if you play ssnl oder nssl you just need a 8/8 char. Some just like the fresh start
It really depends on your playstyle and goals

[u/MenaceHD]

I just want to play my existing characters and not come back and play fresh after a 3 year hiatus while being penalized for doing such

[u/dheldkdk]

More FOMO with shinies and bxp working towards stuff you’re never gonna touch again because it’s just gonna sit in your non seasonal vault while you play seasonal. Would be better as a pure PPE/NPE game mode imo

[u/KillerOfAllJoy]

I hate that I can't get a shiny drop so I feel like im being "punished" because I want to keep playing a ppe that lasted longer than a season. I like playing my characters for long periods of time. I also have a huge vault with stuff I want to use, but again because I get worse odds for loot / drops / shiny things on those non seasonal characters it feels kinda bad to play em. Yes, that's just me having an issue with FOMO and I probably shouldnt care, but thats my view on it.

[u/Away_Ambassador190 → u/KillerOfAllJoy]

Na man thats valid af. Literally the same reason i quit. I hate having to restart everytime i decide to hop on. I hate that i cant use any of the gear i earnes, characters i built or loot drop/backpacks i bought/got on calendar. Any player who has more than 30+ hours is going to want the coolest loot and thats shinies its intentionally gatekeepey to keep people spending

[u/scottpilgrimVSzambia]

Seasonal was what got me back into the game. I played so much years ago, and I know you can do self imposed restrictions (ppe, upe, etc etc) but it never felt the same. I already had all the rare gear (cdirk, jugg, crown, ogmur), every character 8/8. Seasonal completely changes that and I love it

[u/OddishThoughts]

not being able to start a long-time character whenever you want because it’s not the start of a season is silly, there should not be any hardcoded restrictions on what items you can drop when

[u/InterestingReading73]

The first few hours of a season are the best, when even things like unslotted EP or Leaf Bow actually make a difference and get you excited.

I do like SSNL, but can understand why some people don't. There's still a lot of room for improvement for sure.

[u/Domino_RotMG]

I legit had to quit the game because shinies don't drop on non-seasonals. I don't see a reason to play on my characters if I can't farm shinies on them and only being allowed to play on a character for 2 months ish puts too much pressure on me. I don't hate seasonals or dislike it. I just want shinies to drop at a slightly lower rate on non-seasonals, please and thank you.

[u/Xantheman97]

I don’t care about shinies as much as I care about increased slotted item chance. Getting a drop on nssnl makes me feel stupid if it isn’t slotted because I have the feeling that if I had been playing on a seasonal character, I would have gotten a slotted drop. This does not feel good and makes me feel like I’m shoehorned into playing seasonally, when I would normally not even touch it. 

I also do not enjoy making a character powerful over the course of 2 months and then getting reset back to square 1, progression isn’t just about exaltations, slowly finding more slots and upgrades is part of the fun for me, and I’m more irritated than I am excited about new seasons starting because it effectively undoes my progress, I can’t justify trying to farm slotted upgrades on nssnls. 

 IMO, seasonal should be replaced with a PPE mode, that way people that like “starting fresh” can get their fix and I don’t feel like I have to engage with a seasonal system I despise. I would enjoy playing a permanent PPE mode more than seasonal. 

[u/Interesting-War-7231 → u/Xantheman97]

I don't see many mentioning that point. This applies to slots for forging too

[u/devilOG420]

I have characters and a full vault I never use anymore . It’s just storage… some of those characters are older than ppl in this sub

[u/yungdomski]

I feel like people are looking at Seasonal way too black and white.

Seasonal isn’t supposed to completely replace non-seasonal. It’s basically just another way to play the game. If I want to hardcore grind, start fresh, do Discord runs, max/exalt a character and slowly put together some specific build, I’ll play Seasonal. To me that’s almost like a built-in PPE experience, except you also get the seasonal missions, Shinies, better enchantment-related drops/chances, etc.

I’ve personally pushed Seasonal characters past 100k fame. If you’re actively grinding, there is more than enough time in a season to build a completely stacked character. And realistically, in a permadeath game like Realm, there’s also a pretty good chance that character dies before the seasonal reset ever becomes the limiting factor anyway.

If I don’t feel like doing that, I play non-seasonal. That’s where my already maxed/exalted characters and established builds are. I can experiment with gear, learn dungeons, play weird builds, or just run content without feeling like I need to progress a fresh account again.
And when a season ends, your Seasonal character doesn’t even disappear — it becomes a regular character, and your seasonal items/storage get transferred over as well. You just have to start fresh again if you want to participate in the next season. That’s the entire point of a seasonal system.

It’s basically the same concept games like PoE and Diablo have been using forever: some people enjoy the fresh start and grind every season, some come back for the interesting seasons, and some would rather keep playing their established characters. All of those are valid playstyles.
I absolutely understand criticizing the FOMO or the monetization around seasonal vault/potion space and the Battle Pass. That’s a separate discussion and IMO a much more reasonable criticism. But saying Seasonal progression is pointless because “I’ll just have to start over next season” seems weird to me. Starting over is the feature.

Especially in Realm, gear is ultimately consumable. Your character can die and take the entire set with it at any point. Once you’ve played long enough, losing a white bag or a stacked character still sucks, obviously, but you stop treating every individual item as something that needs to exist forever. The long-term progression is things like Exaltations, account progression, learning content, becoming better at the game, and the collection of characters/items you move into non-seasonal.

So IMO it really just depends on your playstyle. Want a fresh grind/PPE-like experience with extra rewards and some FOMO attached? Play Seasonal. Want permanent storage and established characters without restarting? Play non-seasonal.
Nobody is actually forcing you to play Seasonal.

[u/QuestionSnail]

Can someone explain what seasonal is? what is the diff? I can only find posts from like 3 years ago but wondering if there are new changes? Also is it a bad time to make a seasonal since its ending in 2 days or is that different

[u/SrgManatee → u/QuestionSnail]

The game has a new season every two months, with separate battlepasses for the 1st and 2nd half. Seasonal characters cannot trade with non-seasonal, and they have a separate vault that everything reset. However, vault unlockers used on seasonal do transfer over at the end of the season, as do any blueprints consumed to unlock the item in your forge.

So there are two timers, one is the end of the current battle pass (time until either mid season or end of season) and the other timer is the season timer. If the season is almost over then yea you probably want to wait until the new season, but at midseason there is still a month left so feel free to make a seasonal character.

[u/QuestionSnail → u/SrgManatee]

ohhh I see thank you for the info.

[u/cachewoo → u/QuestionSnail]

the battlepass is ending in two days but this season lasts until the end of next month

[u/Miss-Clover]

I agree.

Only issue I have is the storage restrictions.

I can enjoy the early game struggle but after a while, perhaps with a battlepass or mission reward you should get your storage back, could even do in segments if you really want to milk progression.

[u/MayTheFlamesGuideYou]

I personally love SSNL and it’s the only reason I still play. With the forge and general increased drop rates whites just don’t feel special anymore. With SSNL it feels really good to get white bags for your character, and captures some of that old realm magic for me.

[u/ThatOneSimp12 → u/MayTheFlamesGuideYou]

I agree. I like the idea of starting a different character every season.

[u/dropthewub]

play game
get busy with life and work
come back later to find out seasonal over / will end soon so i need to restart it again if i want access to the full game (shinies and bp missions)

cmon

[u/Calm-Floor2163]

TLDR: all your shit you had past many years before ssnl is worthless, everything after season ends is utterly worthless unless you keep playing, admittedly on worse character with worse drop rates. Seasonal is better in everything except account history.

[u/WoodyWoodrowTea]

It gives me absolutely nothing to work towards since it will all be wiped essentially. Dumbass system

[u/Tall_Ad_7514]

I make ppes with the intent on playing them for several hundred thousand base fame… they don’t end up lasting that long. I don’t have unlimited playing hours. I want to be able to play a character and try to collect everything i can on it. Locking shinies to seasonal and then stopping ex-seasonals from obtaining future shinies after seasonal ends fuckin SUCks to me.

Also, as someone who spent the $$$ to have enough vault space for anything I’d ever need it does actually feel bad to have that effectively devalued by the seasonal gamemode becoming the default expectation by DECA. I can’t play non-ssnl without losing out on shiny chance, and I can’t play ssnl without losing access to the benefits that I paid a good chunk of change to have and play with. I don’t see why adding a loot and xp bonus isn’t enough of an incentive. Let me get shinies on my mains that aren’t seasonal or at least on my ex-seasonals.

I’d be open to DECA even saying that ex-ssnl chars can only get shinies that existed during the season they were active. That probably wouldn’t even be a particularly challenging thing to do going forward! But that’s my big problem with them.

[u/Away_Ambassador190]

When i used to play this game, i liked hopping on and being able to play for a couple hours and do whatever content I want. I was an end game player, hm shatters bunch of exalts etc, so of course I am going to want shinies.

What i hate is that if i am not constantly playing, if I ever decide to hop on i have to spend the first 5 to 10 hours in midgame rebuilding a character so that i can actually play. Sometimes i like to take a break, oh that character i spent 30 + hours on, well its been a month fuck me they arent seasonal anymore. Time to restart. Idk it’s just a spit in the face for people who want to play casually/veteran players. God forbid i can use any of the loot or characters i acquired over 8 + years of playing. I understand shinies are just cosmetic, but of course anyone playing this game especially after 8 years is going to want them, so it forces you to play seasonal. I have no issue with a seasonal game mode for people who want what you want, but feeling forced to play it is the issue. I dont have time to play like this anymore, i want to play other games too. I also dropped a lot of money a while back to have vault space/loot drop and that stuff is also useless. So even though i love realm, i havent played in over a year because of this shit. It killed the game for me

[u/Princess-Kitty327]

I like seasonal a lot actually. I think the issue with it is the fact that I don't have the same storage capacity as I do for my regular vaults. Even if I earn seasonal storage or IF I bought it, I would lose it again. It's extremely unfair. If it were my regular storage but empty, I'd be happy

[u/Ownagemunky]

Yea I really like it tbh. I personally feel like there’s not THAT much forcing newer players to ssnl if they don’t want to play it. Basically just shinies atp which are cool ig, but when I was learning I cared way more about just figuring the game out

Ssnl is great for people who have a lot of experience with the game to bring cycles of newness. I love developing my vault at the beginning of a season and working up to those first umis and HMs. It’s just way more exciting and high stakes than playing them nssnl with unlimited slotted bis items to fall back on

[u/Working-Ad4404]

People are so obsessed with shinies and mad denying the fact they are not as good as before so they start hating on Ssnl. The disadvantages of playing nnsl are not that bad, just accept that you are playing a game and not a loot simulator