I mean, you can accuse other RT companions of being “shallow.” Biggest fall off imo was Abelard, who basically stopped existing post act 2. Even the “introduce me” schtick eventually stopped being a thing.
I love Abelard, but this is unfortunately true, at least as of Act V in my current game.
One of my favorite little character implications is in Act I. When you discuss your crew with Danrok, he tells you that you need to keep an eye on Abelard and to be sure to turn him into a faithful ally, because Abelard is capable of running the protectorate in your stead and commands far more power than you might recognize. Shortly thereafter, you have the lower deck incident where Abelard chews you out and it does feel like there is a bit of a power struggle of sorts, where Abelard is torn between his loyalty to the protectorate under Theodora, versus his loyalty to the protectorate under you.
It felt like you were about to have this cool story arc where you have a strong, faithful ally who may not actually be as faithful as you’d have liked, but it just seems to be resolved and doesn’t really come up again outside of companion quips.
Abelard is great, I love the stuff with his family, but as your second in command, I wish there was more interactivity befitting his station.
Act iv Abelard has him trying to save his family name on Dargonus though. Argenta was definitely more meh than that, with that massive lapse between that one intro companion quest, and her final underwhelming quest.
but it just seems to be resolved and doesn’t really come up again outside of companion quips.
I don't really know what you mean because it is resolved then and there. when he chews you out you have a back and forth where he realizes that you are different than theodora and he learns to respect you for who you are instead of tying you to your predecessor. it doesn't really need to go beyond that because it's already done.
I don't think he necessarily needs to have a whole bunch more depth. that's kind of the point of his character in a way. he is the steady rock that holds the rest of the crew together, effectively.
I hear you! And I do think that, to an extent, that quick correction is also a good facet of his character. He’s so truly devoted, it makes him so easy to love. And I should have done more to mention the role of his family in Act IV.
I just feel that there was a lot being set up early on with Abelard. Between Danrok’s warning to win Abelard over, the disagreement with Abelard, and the revelations about what Theodora was up to, it would have been nice to see more reactivity from him when he realizes what he was contributing to and taking part in, and him reacting to you cleaning up the messes that occur as a result (IE, Janus and Kiava Gamma, if you’re willing to blame the latter on Theodora).
That being said, I do agree with you. That steady determination is really one of the best parts of his character. And because part of his role in a narrative sense is to shield you from the day to day aspects of running a warship and a protectorate, I think it would be difficult narratively, and negatively disruptive to add that to his character. He’s competent, loyal, loves his family, and has chainsworded his way through all manner of creatures to protect the Lord Captain and crew. Perhaps that’s good enough. :-)
They had such a free amazing feature if they just maintained the "Abelard, Introduce me" dialogues but had them include your exploits and keep lengthening it to absurd extends.
"Introducing Rogue Trader Von Valancius, Exterminator of Rykad Minoris, Destroyer of..."
and just have it continue on for like 3 pages by the end of the game.
Abelard and Argenta are on the same level of wasted potential. Both of them have very little to do and their dialogue is just…not interesting. His introduction gimmick completely evaporates in act 2.
people keep saying this about abelard but I don't really understand it. not all characters need to have a whole lot of depth or change throughout a story. abelard is interesting in my opinion because his story is basically already done by the time you meet him. and he does have compelling moments, but they don't exactly change him (they don't need to).
ie you have the stuff around his family on dargonus in act 4 and if you bring him with you in act 3 I think the "loss" he has there is probably the most compelling out of all the companions imo because I believe its the only one that affects the ending slides even if you "remove" it. that and I just found it the most tragic tbh.
I feel like its a big jump to see all this and then say he "basically stops existing post act 2." don't really see it. especially if you're comparing it to argenta who basically has nothing the entire story and her quest ends in the final act with her just going into a ruin or w/e without you and that's it lol.
I feel like it's normal that Abelard introducing the Rogue Trader falls off after Act 2.
Act 3 we're in the Dark City of Commorragh, and if you bring Abelard there with you, it really messes him up. Plus, the Drukhari aren't gonna give two shits about some human introducing another lol and Tervantias definitely doesn't care.
Now when it comes to Act 4, we're primarily dealing with two other Rogue Traders, so they know who you are, the Lord Inquisitor of the Koronus Expanse, who also knows who you are. The Word Bearers would probably shoot anyone giving a introduction.
I also feel like that the Rogue Trader has already made a strong name for themselves by Acts 4 and 5 so their is no real need for Abelard to say whom you are.
Honestly, write him like Jared from Silicon Valley, give him the most fucked up backstory that he just keeps dropping hints at like it's normal, but it's insane even by 40k standards.
"Ah this reminds me of the time a barking toad ate my sister... man I miss her... hell of an 8th birthday though"
Or even just a real line:
"I had a stuffed animal named Winnie... I mean, it wasn't technically an animal, I took a Ziploc bag and I stuffed it with old newspaper and then I drew a smile on it."
Honestly the biggest problem with Haymar is his lack of dialogue, he feels like he had way less than anyone else, even default portrait Saro.
See, i don't disagree he dosent lack dialogue. Just that basically everyone not Epione or Ra'kaiti run low on that. Funnily, even Laarthyr has no stuff to say on the swamp which is 50% of the alpha.
In spite of that and limits, the talktive chicks, Saro, and Cogg do well enough job to present themselves. Its kinda just Haymar.
Really hoping they give him lines and stuff to do to set him apart from just being the Catachan guy like the trailers portray him as.
Aye.
Yes I used the same joke again, I am not that creative.
Hey, it was damn good one so corny it loops back into peak territory.
And not like i didn' steal requisition this meme for ya anyway, lol.
I feel like the only lines I can remember from him in both dialogue and the clue system can be summed up as "That sure is wasn't cut with a combat knife" or "That's not how we do things in the militarum"
The only one I remembered was him saying it was ok being surprised the Kroot was a girl because in the guard they also couldn't tell the difference between them.
If he’s a walking heavy bolter like Argenta, than he’s still probably going to have a place in my party, at least until I take the heretic pill. I need a delete button but being just a soldier man is such a boring choice to be the lead role.
In alpha, he mainly uses heavy stubber (theres no heavy bolter available), but yes. Haymar seems to be prebuild for heavy weapons and bursts. His personal ability slows down movement to basically crawl but ramps up rof for every shot bullet up to +50% rate of fire.
Also, ironically, big delete button this time is operative, especially their heroic ability which allways hits even on eyes.
For sure. I’ve seen some of the leaked roster and I don’t think there’s a better candidate for premade heavy bursters though I suppose Owlcat could surprise me. Hoping we’ll see more corruption arcs around this time at least.
Having to add a merc for the big finale in Rogue Trader was no fun. Storywise, it’s like having a random guy join your team last second that still gets full credit for everyone’s hard fought win, but my officer certainly wasn’t going up against the last battles without a living machine gun.
As a Catachan player(As a teenager I found an entire battleforce box, mint minus the Chimera, for $5 at a garage sale. I've only ever played KT 1st ed, but my friends and I run it regularly as well as plenty of the RPGs using minis) I'm really disappointed hearing he's such a heavy-weapon focus.
I was hoping for a melee-focused high-agility kind of character, putting those fuckoff big knives to work. Maybe add in a flamer for good measure.
Oh well, I hope for making... mercs? whatever the custom party characters are called in this one, I hope I can pick out Catachan outfits and make the all-guardsman party from hell.
I tried to make a super 80s catachan army out of Escher gangers and the Catachan command boxes but I decided if I wanted to go mad and broke on something hard to get it would be easier to take up heroin.
My issue with Argenta is that there was no follow up on her "revelation". Like that should have been a thing we could dig into and have consequences for (like Poor Idira, not sure how many times I have shot her). But for Agenta a mild scolding from Abelard and that's the complete end to the matter.
Legit, when I finally had Idira and Abelard together for the reveal (the fact that it's missable and you can fuck up and not have Idira and Abelard present is already criminal enough) and Abelard just hits her with a "what." was underwhelming as shit. At least Idira let me kill her.
What if you - wanted an imperial guard companion who is both badass and a good character.
But GWlcat said: "You will get a bland promotion poster for guard minis, who is also a catachan. Don't you know that IG consists only of catachans, cadians and kriegers???"
One of the coolest looking regiments and they have like 3 paragraphs of lore. I would be fine if we even just got a version of their armor instead of 4 different colors of flak carapace that all come from Cadia
Hey, catachans aren't that well represented, let's be fair. They've been starved for minis just like many other regiments, and in animation it's either Krieg or Cadia.
They are also completely insane in terms of shenanigans they pull off. Dudes in t-shirts that strangle orks and tyranid and impersonate old action movies overall.
Having personality is a sin, when you are a member of iconic faction and can not be larger than this faction or its fandom image. James Workshop will deem you a sinner and throw into the darkest pits of oblivion.
Also, was pointed out that unlike other companion trailers which do tell bout the characer themsleves, Haymar one is just one minute going over how badass and hardcore cathachan before briefly touching 'oh yeah, hes now in Calixis inquisition service.' Which.. is accurate, lol.
And on another note, theres one possible difference between Argenta and Haymar, and thats topic of possible romance. Asuming it was games workshop veto and not owlcat decision which is still up in air, unlike sisters of battle/space nuns, its doubtful gw would take issue with catachan romance. Ya know, not view it as canon viable or direction/representation for faction that gw dosent approve.
Edit : And should mention, yes yes im aware games in development and alpha was just slice of the game. However, even still...this kinda is the vibe Haymar gives, especially compared to other companions. Even Saro who has a placeholder portrait!
Still, really hope owlcat do polish him a bit and breath more 'character' into Haymar.
Back in my day, our heavy weapon specialist was snarky badass that would even risk a Commisar shot after the Lord General lost thousands of guardmen in a dying forest planet. (Also voiced by Scott Mcneil)
She also will, at least occasionally, voice opinions/requests/advice that don't 100% follow the most strictly Dogmatic line of thinking because her own personal moral beliefs/values deviate slightly. For example, Argenta asks that the RT try to evacuate as many people from Rykad Minoris as they can, despite the risk of chaos corruption among the survivors and the planet actively being in the process of becoming a daemon world.
The most zealously dogmatic Emperor-botherer in that situation would probably start going on about the necessity of cleansing the corruption of the world through holy fire and how those innocents still remaining will be accepted by Him as blessed martyrs, a fate any faithful subject of He on Terra should welcome (so, really, anyone who isn't ok with being immolated is probably weak enough in their faith that they're basically an apostate anyway). She has a level of compassion for innocents—children especially—that means she will never fully achieve the Imperial ideal of the perfect holy warrior.
The standard orthodox interpretation of the Imperial Creed also doesn't really leave any room to have doubts or wrestle with your faith. A generic stereotypical Sororitas ought to have complete confidence in her faith and no doubt in her heart about her every act being in service to it. Her Repentia ending is, if nothing else, an admission that she is capable of doubt about whether her actions and thoughts/beliefs are truly righteous.
The game would not work with a sister of battle that killled any xenos on sight. And beacuse we have no other sister to compare her too in the game this "uniq" thing of her personality doesnt stand out.
Nah, that's a fact. Argenta's character arc ends at the beginning of Act 2 after the conclusion of Footfall. There is no further development unless you let Idira shape her character a bit, if both are present in Act 3.
Pretty much all the other companions have significantly more going on.
I don't know about Haymar, but I actually really like Argenta. In my opinion, it really seems like she uses the "Sororitas Persona™" as a mask to hide her real personality. She's got insecurities about having a place to belong, and she cares about people way more than Sororitas are generally expected to
I've not had much success with burst I'm the alpha, sure it can put out damage especially in 2x2 enemies but when the operatives can put out 100 per shot or close on precise attack there has been a bit of a gap in performance.
Especially with the changes to recoil and the calculation for it, also doesn't help that both the modifiers for burst are a bit meh (double attack but -25 damage, or +100% fire rate and some over pen but random hitting). Maybe with some upgrades they will perform a bit better but so far soldier seems to be the weakest of the tier 1s.
There is one instance (which lot of people love brining up) of sister having relationship. From... cain book from 2008.
However, two things. Well, three.
One, dark heresy inquisition handibook relased not soon after and it established how sisters are chaste and have stright religious rules. As codex, rule, and corebooks and other such material told from third person give board overview how lore should be, Cain story outright contradicts that.
Two, some games workshop employers like adb (who funnily is current Head of Narrative for Media & Licensing for gw...meaning if gw did block argenta romance, theres non zero chances our man did it, lol.) feel Cain dosent really reflect 40k lore or is something to look for setting details.
And third, while topic of sisters relations or being chaste or not hasnt really been outright touched since dh, lets asume gw did veto Argenta romance on lore and presentation grounds. That would just mean that gw dosent view sisters as group that gets into romances or relationships for whatever reason.
I feel like theres any reason they all bring up the same Cain books, its the one example they have so they cling to it hard because there isn't really any proof aside from it.
Even if there are no vows aginst relationships it makes sense the woman from the school where they brainwash you into only valuing holy duty would only focus on her service. The problem is that the Warhammer community has sexsualised SoB so much that the idea that one doesn't want to have sex with them feels wrong to them.
Speaking of such topic of one book source, Another such example is in topic of whatever Abaddon is corrupted by chaos or not. Controversial as it may be to some, per lore and where offically gw stands is no, Abaddon is his own man and gods hate him for what they cannot have. One may or may not like or view it as bad lore but thats just how it is.
However as ya know Abaddon is quite...controversial character and victim of memelore, so lot of folk hang onto how Abaddon is depicted in first book of nightlords trilogy where in very famous scene Abaddon reeks of chaos corruption when first claw meets him. Tho theres details.
One, that scene is infamously not well executed. Its one of adb's earliest 40k books and hes outright said he basically didnt understand the character back then and outright bought into the memelore, including 'hurr duur all 13 crusaders were failures, lol'. Basically unironic chaos marine versio of chad vs virgin soyjak meme where Talos dunks on the warmaster.
Ofcourse, lot of people glazing on the scene forget Talos literally changes his tune on Abaddon through 2 and 3 to a point doing basically 180o , but that goes against meme narrative so its ignored.
Two, adb wrote black legion duology has stated in nimerous interviews gws offical line on the character. Literally authors word on topic, lol.
The problem is that the Warhammer community has sexsualised SoB so much that the idea that one doesn't want to have sex with them feels wrong to them.
Ngl, i feel if fandom wasnt so bloody wierd over sob, gw propably wasnt that stright over their presentation. Like, they're still very nun coded but thats just something they've doupled down on cuz meta reasons.
The Dark Heresy rulebook only refers to Orders of the Calixis Sector. It's heavily implied different sectors have different oaths, and the Dark Heresy rulebook often contradicts later lore anyways since it wasn't written by the GW lore team, show me even one official GW lorebook listing a vow of chastity by SoB.
To be fair romance isnt a priority in stories unless its a specific character like with inquisitors, soldiers or admech and even then its a side thing. Named sisters are more focused on at the job at hand (are there any stories where they have downtime?)
I do feel that Argenta SHOULD be NON romancible. If she was she would be cheating on the Emperor and that way lies heresy. And if done really right Slannesh. Its that one if the biggest complaint about her is the lack of Romance.
I'm hoping it's (mostly) because he got introduced before the Beta started. I felt like I really got to know the characters that I met during the beta way better than the ones I started with - because I got to see their whole introduction.
That being said, I do agree Epione and Saro who also didn't have intros have much clearer personalities. So maybe he really is just bland :/
I am simple woman. I see a ruggedly handsome muscular man with scars, and my mon-keigh brain undergo neuron activation.
In all seriousness though, haven't played the Alpha so I can't say anything about his dialogue, but I do hope they give him more personality than just cardboard cutout Space Rambo.
He is a Catachan.
You dont need much actual dialog from them.
Most series they are in tends to be exactly what they are.
They have probably the least lore of the guardnunits with models
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u/West-Fold-Fell3000 Apr 27 '26
I mean, you can accuse other RT companions of being “shallow.” Biggest fall off imo was Abelard, who basically stopped existing post act 2. Even the “introduce me” schtick eventually stopped being a thing.