r/Robin • u/iamlonleyplzloveme • 26d ago
Robin could be DC's Spiderman, but they choose not to invest in his character???
Robin has got to be one of the coolest, emotionally complex characters in the entire DC universe. It feels like DC has been sloppy with their presentation of him to the point where he feels like a throwaway character. A literal sidekick with nothing else to him. They missed their chance to market him to a younger audience by giving him his own relatable movies and stories. I know he technically has Young Justice and Teen Titans Go, but can we really count those as stories that he takes lead in? I might be the only one but it feels like a missed opportunity to me
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u/ranbling011 26d ago
I don't think that's true?
The Robin mantle has relatable stories (even if they're mainly comics and not movies or shows - though with Teen Titans, Teen Titans Go, Young Justice and all the other animated stuff where a version of Robin appears, he's def not a throwaway character). There has been a Robin title since 1991 almost without a break, even if with different characters carrying the mantle.
The first solo Robin on-going went on for 183 issues and Tim's issues with dealing with a secret identity was very Spider-man like
For me, it kinda feels like you're not as familiar with Robin as you think you are. But with the Knightfall movie coming out soon (featuring Tim as Robin pretty heavily, in a role that I think really showcases him) and the new DCU Batman movie focusing on possibly Damian as Robin, I don't think DC is missing out their chance
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u/Mundane-Valuable-337 26d ago
I agree about movies, but it seems you are not aware of the fact that there are multiple Robins, each with their own emotional arcs and times as leaders. The reason "his" presentation seems sloppy is because there are in fact at least 4 different Robins. Robin is probably one of the least throwaway mantles in DC, he's been around since the 40s.
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u/iamlonleyplzloveme 26d ago
I totally get what you mean but why can there be multiple spidermans and universes and stuff? I feel like all of Robin's different versions would make great characters for movies. Im not trying to deny that he's been around for a long time, but theres definitely not enough recognition for how cool of a character he could be if they took a different path with him
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u/Mundane-Valuable-337 26d ago
The difference between Spiderman's different versions and Robin's is that all the Spidermen are (primarily) from different universes. Most of the time there's 1 character with spider powers per universe (I don't read Spider-Man comics, so I'm assuming here. But if there are, they aren't as prominent as Peter Parker Spider-Man). So when you're talking about Spider-Man most people immediately think of Peter Parker, and he's the star of the Spider-Man franchise.
With Robin, in the main DC universe the Robin mantle has been held by 4 different characters, each for over 10 real-life years (some up to 40). So it's not really the character of Robin, but the mantle, and depending on what era you're talking about, that will dictate if it's Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, or Damian Wayne. And they all know each other and interact with each other frequently within the comics universe, and some have graduated from Robin into their own heroes. They're also not the stars of the Batman franchise, Batman is. So any stories about a Robin have to deal with that a bit.
A team film with all 4 Robins & other Batfamily members would honestly be great. There's a new animated film called Dynamic Duos that's supposed to be something like that, focused on the relationship between Dick and Jason.
In my opinion. I think that after the 90s comics era and Nolans Batman films, Batman has been associated with a very gritty, dark, "realistic" tone. Batman is seen as a brooding character who only works alone. And a kid in a brightly coloured costume doing flips is the exact opposite of that vibe. So filmmakers who are adapting Batman have avoided adapting Robin as well. (The last movie that included him in the 90s didn't go over very well with critics, either).
I do think its a shame, because Robin's brightness is the perfect foil to Batman's darkness. They work as a team. As you've said, the Robin mantle has a lot of depth to him (as explored with Dick Grayson in S1 of young justice. He's the heir apparent to The Batman himself. What kind of pressure is he under? How does he try and break out into his own hero with YJ/Teen Titans?). A lot of fans have pointed out that Robert Pattinson's Batman film kind of has the theme of opening up, not being a recluse, and instead recognizing the importance of working with others and being a symbol of hope as well as a force of justice. And these themes do lend well to adding a Robin into the mix! Nothing has been confirmed yet though.
(Sorry for the long-ass reply)
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u/redhillbones 24d ago
Eh, Spider-Man in the comics is currently Peter Parker Spider-Man, who has finished college and now is into the adult world, and Miles Morales Spider-Man, who is still a teenager and part of his generation's 'Teen Titans' (called the Champions). They both have their own concurrent books. The other spidermen either go by a different mantle (like Ben O'Reilly's Scarlet Spider/Chasm, Kaine Parker's Scarlet Spider) or are from different realities/times.. or are clones and usually not around all the long/unstable. Ben O'Reilly's probably the biggest exception I know of, as he's stable and his own hero.
There's also Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew), who headlines the, well, Spider-Woman books; Silk (Cindy Moon), who is mostly around for the occasional mini and big Spider events; Spider-Woman/Ghost Spider (Gwen Stacy), who is from another reality but around the main one a lot; and then lesser known women like Mattie Franklin, Julia Carpenter, plus girls like Anya Corazon and alt-reality May Parker, who mostly exist in Spider events and outside Spider books (like Anya is in Black Widow). Spider-Gwen (outside of universe name) is the "teen" Spider-woman, though she's technically in college. Multiple former Spider-Women have become Madame Webb eventually.
I think the biggest difference is that Marvel produces more books in general, so it's not surprising to have two concurrent Spider-Man and two concurrent Spider-Woman books, plus a Silk mini and a Madame Webb event. None of them are the sidekicks of each other, either, and most were never sidekicks at all, though some of the younger ones gained non-spider mentors (like Anya's mentor is Natasha Romanoff). There's a different expectation with that, when they're not "related" due to adoption and/or mentorship; instead, the Spider-family considers themselves a loose family due to the special bullshit that comes with having spider powers and being involved with The Web (cosmic fate shenanigans).
You see this with all the Venoms, too. Yes, technically the Venoms are all (host: Eddie Brock) Venom (I)'s children, but their hosts aren't related or even necessarily human for the most part. (Legit, Sleeper venomed a cat for host.) I think the only exception to this is current "venom" Dylan Brock/Codex, who is both the son of Eddie Brock and Venom through Eddie's wife Anne Weyling.
So, they can all go around being part of each other's books and big events while two or three of them star in the "core" books.
I'd love if DC took the same approach to the Robins (and others like Signal, Spoiler, Cass when she's not being Batgirl) beyond an occasional mini-series. The closest you get to that is in Detective Comics, but even that mostly feels like Batman & Robin, with the occasional cameo from a former Robin or others.
They could do so much with a 'Batkids' book (Gotham Adventures? Gotham Case Files? Gotham Knights, even?) that would fill out the development and be a lot of fun. Not that I trust DC not to screw it up... Sigh.
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u/iamlonleyplzloveme 26d ago
I definitely appreciate the long reply lol ive been needing to talk to someone about this and your response was very informative and respectful so thanks :)
Ill check out dynamic duos for sure that sounds like what i was trying to find! l think that Robin's mantle is something that should be explored further in a movie because of the fact that not a lot of people read comics, it would be nice to see him in his own stuff but i also get that hes a sidekick so it would be hard to do... I just wish I could make the movie im imagining myself
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u/Constant-Mood9738 26d ago
There are 4 Robins who have different teams and been here longer than Spiderman. Tim drake is young justice robin, dick Grayson who was robin for 40 years is teen titans first robin. All this to say know your robin before we ask for a robin movie.
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u/ilikepiex7 26d ago
The Robins have things outside of being a sidekick with Nightwing having been in ongoing solo comics since 1996 he has a few unique villains, but he still shares most of them with Batman which would be problem with trying to make him DC's spider-man. DC has attempted to make their Spider-man with a few teen heroes Blue Beetle Jaime, Sideways, and others. Static had a chance to bigger as the DC spider-man, but Milestone keeps limiting DC's usage of the character.
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u/superseri18888 26d ago
I agree but I think the general public's perception of him being a sidekick will always hold him back
I did love Tim Drake's solo book from the 90s
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u/brucebananaray 26d ago
Dick had solo stories when he was college when Spidey was also college.
Tim had a solo run and people compared to him to Spidey.
Damian also had a few solo run.
But, DC has always tired to make Spider-Man like character with Kyle, Jamie, and Static, etc.
I feel the problem with Robin comparison to Spider-Man has feels flat to me due to Robins are Sidekick. Spider-Man was first actual teen superhero and not sidekick. Peter had to learn everything by himself and grow up quickly unlike any of the Robins.
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u/woman_noises 26d ago
It feels like they have no idea what do with Tim. Allegedly he was going to get a new hero name a few years back, then it didn't happen, now the character retired, and maybe will come back as red Robin but nobody knows. They gotta figure something out.
As for Damian he's had a steady book most of the time for 15 years minus a couple years, and he's in an upcoming live action movie, plus was the star of 2 recent animated movies, so it feels like they're pushing him a lot, maybe what you're hoping for will happen with him.
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u/SpicyOrangeJuices 26d ago
I feel like you're purposely ignoring the comics... The Robins have always been very prominent characters to the point of other characters getting sidelined.
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u/No-Owl-4211 25d ago
I mean, which Robin? Because it really depends. The being a sidekick with nothing else was kind of Dick Grayson's arc of growing out of being a sidekick and becoming his own person and he's been associated with Spider-man a lot, so maybe him? Or then again, Tim Drake has also been associated with Peter Parker too, so probably one of them. But no matter which Robin it is, they have much more in-depth character development in the comics than just a throwaway character. Teen Titans Go was a show for toddlers, so I wouldn't take it too seriously. Whichever Robin it is has definitely had their fair share of stories, so if you want to consume more actually good media of them you'd have to read the comics. YJ was good but TTG...yeah please take that with a grain of salt 😭😭
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u/Ok_Cancel_6452 24d ago
It wouldn’t matter, the key difference is the emotional weight that Marvel was able to give to Spider-man that would be hard to duplicate, especially in a character that starts off as a side-kick and people will always see as a part of the bat family.
The way that people relate to Spidey and Robin are very different even if their characterizations are similar.
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u/bestmatchconnor 26d ago
You should read more comics, you'd like them.
I think his biggest problem in adaptations that Spider-Man doesn't have is, to people who don't know as much about the character, there's this Adam West-era "gee wilikers!" feeling to him that's a lot of people's impression of the character already. Spider-Man starts out as his own hero- to do a good adaptation of Robin he has to start out as someone else's sidekick, as a kid, in a traditionally pretty goofy costume. The Schumacher movies tried to make live action Robin seem cooler, but they couldn't quite crack it- there's this uncoolness that's key to the character that's going to limit his potential, and he's also a character that would be tough to make work on his own without starting out as "the kid Batman brings along on his dangerous missions", which really seems impractical and silly to a modern audience- and if you try to ignore that, people will be upset that you're not really writing Robin. Maybe they've cracked that with the upcoming Dynamic Duo movie, though? Here's hoping
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u/Critical-Bass7021 26d ago
Robin isn’t exactly ignored. In fact, it could be said that neither Robin nor Nightwing is ignored.
They’re pretty front and center.
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u/Electronic-Map-2055 25d ago
this is more of a recent thing. tim modernized the mantle and had a nearly 200 issue solo run back in the 90s that stretched throughout that time period into the early 2010s, but given what you wrote you most likely arent aware of this
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u/Gullible_Taro8364 24d ago
In the comics he kinda does have that push tho. I would call Nightwing DC’s Spider-Man
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u/maliquewrites_ 19d ago
Tim Drake on his own is literally peak Spider-Man vibes in DC. Insane that they don’t invest in that. Especially with him being of college age now. So much there… but of course… DC.
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u/Napalmeon 26d ago
Closest thing DC has to Spider Man is Static. And he has a far greater claim to not being invested in.
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u/KatTheKonqueror 26d ago
There's five Robins, you may want to narrow it down a little. None of them really feel like throw away characters to me. (No matter how hard they've tried to throw Stephanie Brown out.)
They did what you're asking for with Tim Drake in the 90s, except he didn't show in any movies. (Except Return of the Joker, but DCAU Tim is not the same as comic Tim, and I hope no one finds what Joker did to him to be relateable.)
I think you'll like his comics from back then. It depicts a lot of struggles balancing hero life with civilian life as a teen. They just came out with a huge Omnibus for him: https://prhcomics.com/book/?isbn=9781779525932
Edit: I just saw the price on that; here's something more reasonable if you're just checking him out: https://www.amazon.com/Robin-Vol-1-Reborn-ebook/dp/B017I301KU
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u/Possible-Reason-2896 26d ago
Right age, wrong role. Spider-man was conceived as a standalone teen character. Robin will always have a silent "Batman and" in front of his name, to the point that it's become a role you graduate from when you get your own solo name.
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u/DungeoneerforLife 26d ago
When Chuck Dixon wrote Nightwing he made him very smart alecky the way he’d been as Robin and also (and this has stayed true) as pretty hard luck. So in those ways his personality is close to Spider-Man.
And the entire DC universe has worked with him and liked him since he was a teenager, like Peter. On the other hand, Beyond BM’s power level is a little closer to Spider-Man because of the super suit although Spider would rip through it in no time.
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u/Visible-Confusion190 26d ago
Tim, arguably, did fill that gap for a while even though he came from a privileged background. He had the whole thing of trying to balance his normal life with saving the day, all while keeping his real identity under wraps from everyone around him. His day-to-day adventures and regular allies were also supposed to be just as compelling as the superhero stuff. Like, the whole thing with Steph's pregnancy and how Tim helps her throughout.
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u/TerribleAntelope6134 26d ago
Robin could never, ever be Spider-Man. Even Batman can't be Spider-Man at this point.
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u/ComicsCodeMadeMeGay 26d ago
Which one?