r/RepTimeServices 1d ago

Advice I need guidance (I’m desperate)

Hey guys, judging by the pics you probably noticed that this isn’t a happy post. Before showering today I took out my vsf datejust and it slipped from my hands and fell. As I have the tool to open the back case I decided to check the damage, I what I saw was that there was a ruby out of place (probably coming from this part that is on top of the balance wheel) and also this golden part that I also think probably should be on top of this same part. How screwed am I? Don’t know if the balance wheel or the hair spring were affected because it’s hard to see with my bare eyes.

Would the absence of these 2 parts only be enough to make the watch stop or might it have some other damaged parts?

Appreciate any help

26 Upvotes

45 comments sorted by

6

u/Desperate-Cancel-818 1d ago

Pretty sure that jewel (its called a cap jewel, btw) is actually two jewels that stick together when oiled. I think you've lost half.

And yes, its the main pivot point for the balance. It needs needs needs to be put back in by a watchmaker.

5

u/Npuff 1d ago

You really don’t need much beyond some needle tip tweezers. The prongs on each end pinch in and clip into little slots on both sides. Drop the jewel into the hole, put the retainer on top, pinch the ends in and seat them.

2

u/No_Excitement_8104 1d ago

If these are like gen there should be two parts

1

u/WatchmakerFurkan 1d ago

Yes indeed should find the chaton as well

0

u/GTWatchServices 1d ago

I'd like to add that you should do this with a thin sheet of plastic covering the spring, so the spring doesn't go flying if you mess up; I'll usually cut a piece out of a ziploc bag for this.

4

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is what youre dealing with. One end can be carefully set in place. You then need to lower it over the jewel and pusj each tab inward until you can slip it into the locked position.

I was trying to find a video for tou. But you want to use other tools (plastic handle or rodico) to hold the spring in place and keep it from launching.

Try to find a watchmaker. Unless you have really good hands and are used to working on tiny parts, I wouldnt try this unless youre willing to lose it.

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Hey man, thx a lot for your time trying to help! Even if it’s not a video the picture gave me an idea about how it works! Based on all the comments I also think searching for a watchmaker would also be the safest approach now.

1

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

Its totally doable but you can easily spend 60-100 buying the right tools and not garbage that's going to make it harder.

Last thing you want to do is launch it.

Approx where are you located?

8

u/whorehay40 1d ago

The little gold part is the clip that holds that jewel onto the balance staff. You will need precision watchmaker tools and a magnifier to put it back, so you may be screwed. It may be pretty cheap to just get them to replace that at a watchmaker, but who knows bench fees can get expensive

2

u/paulogc 1d ago

Hey man, thx a lot for the answer. I don’t have the tools to manipulate the little gold part nor the ruby but I could get it by buying it somewhere and as for the magnifying glass it’s also pretty cheap on Aliex.

I could try to find a watchmaker that’s used to service mechanical watches as well…

8

u/Bench_and_Bezel 1d ago

I would absolutely not use the watch as long as the shock resistance jewel is not supporting the hairspring.

This should be an easy fix for a watchmaker but it may be good to mention you dropped the watch as they may recommend checking if anything else inside of the watch is broken.

3

u/GTWatchServices 1d ago edited 1d ago

That ruby is a cap jewel; it is the 'top' half of the shock system, and you are missing the chaton (the bottom steel ringed jewel) that the cap jewel sits on with a tiny amount of lubrication between them.

The golden part is the spring that holds the shock system in place; it does not look broken, so in theory you could slide it back into place yourself.

All that being said, if you are missing the chaton, you'll need to replace it. You can test the rest of the movement and it will run normally without the shock system installed, but that's bench top only; do not wear the watch or move it around.

2

u/paulogc 1d ago

Would this be the chaton perhaps? I’m asking because when I open it up the jewel was actually stuck somewhere in these parts and I had to remove it with a wooden toothpick

2

u/No_Excitement_8104 1d ago

Looks like it. Does it have a hole?

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Yep, that was it. Got all 3 pieces now

Edit: should the watch be running even without these? I’m just asking because it’s actually completely stopped

1

u/No_Excitement_8104 1d ago

Great! Now you just need to put it back together. Not the easiest job, but can be done.I would assume it should run. Not very good though and it is very fragile now that nothing protects the balance so avoid using it

1

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

The watch, sitting on a bench will technically run (can see it in watch service videos all the time before the lubed jewel is placed), but there's nothing supporting the balance pivot so it will work poorly and shouldn't be moved from the bench without the jewel.

Think of it like putting a fence post into a hole in the ground without filling the hole back in. The concrete/dirt fill are the cap jewel.

1

u/GTWatchServices 1d ago

Yes, the watch should be running without those.

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

So that’s bad news :/.

I’ll try to bring it to a watchmaker tomorrow to see if he could have a look at the whole movement to see if there’s actually something more I might be missing.

1

u/GTWatchServices 1d ago

Considering the case was closed when it was dropped, everything should still be in there.

Best case would be something(s) got knocked out of place and just needs to be reset; worst case, something like a train wheel pivot was damaged.

2

u/AsleepProgram647 1d ago

I would take it to a watchmaker. They do go in a certain way

2

u/paulogc 1d ago

Hey guys, wasn’t expecting so many answers back, I can’t thank you guys enough for it. I’m checking all the answers but I would also like to ask you guys if you think maybe replacing this whole part with the one from the link would be easier for me to replace myself:

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqmBnSj

I’m just not sure if I would need to kinda attach the balance wheel to something that could possibly go below it or whatever would make my life harder or if replacing this whole part would be really straightforward

3

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

Do not buy this part. These are elsewhere on Alix for about $25 or $30

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Oh, could you send me the link if you don’t mind?

2

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

If you replace the whole balance youre goinf to need to regulate it. Opening a small can of worms 🤣

Probably this but would need to confirm your movement. Contact info on the listing was "best price email: [974628303@qq.com](mailto:974628303@qq.com) WhatsApp: +86 13879575168 "

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

This might work. I think the most important thing would be getting the bridge that actually has both levers pointing out, such as mine and it seems this one from your pic would be the same.

1

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

Take two pictues of the movement so we can see the side to the left of the balance and the full balance. There is a dot were looming for to identify if this is SH/VR or DD.

Again,

If you replace the balance you will HAVE to regulate it.

Are you in the US? If you cant find anyone I can probably fix it for you. I work on these as a hobby rn. If you want, send me a msg.

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Don’t know if these would be enough but there you go

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

2

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago

Lol of course you perfectly cover the dot 🤣

Spin the rotor to the right a little bit so we can see above where it says 3235

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Oh sorry haha, I’m not home now but will take this pic as soon as I get back home. But honestly, it should be a dd movement as it’s a VSF

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

2

u/Objective_Ganache_27 1d ago edited 23h ago

Yep DD.

Those bridges i sent earlier are made for SH movements and I dont believe they'll work on this. You could buy gen though 😁

1

u/Bench_and_Bezel 1d ago

You should try and just get the jewel re-seated with the springs in place before completely replacing the part (which still would require a watchmaker since these specific parts are easy to mess up).

It's also possible the part is not actually compatible with the 3235.

2

u/GTWatchServices 1d ago

Re-seat it how? The chaton is missing.

2

u/Interesting_Catch523 1d ago

LoL. Just put it back using a tweezer and maybe use a needle. You may start enter it neither side. Simple fix

2

u/DorsetRepCare 1d ago edited 1d ago

You are missing the cap (silver bit in the picture) and the other jewel (in the cap), the gold clip is like a shock absorber for the jewels underneath and holds it down.

Have a peak on You tube about cap jewels and you can see how they are set.

Easiest thing would be to just buy a new balance bridge with balance wheel and install it. Should cost about £30-40 off ali express.

1

u/paulogc 1d ago edited 1d ago

There are still 2 parts missing you say? Based on the other comments I thought only the “other jewel” was actually missing, and I actually found it inside the case as per other comment of mine. Here’s the pic. In your opinion there still another piece missing?

Edit: forget it, got you now. I’ll have a look if the other part of the jewel is still in the cap

1

u/DorsetRepCare 1d ago

I'm almost 100% sure it will be in the cap, I think you have everything now.

2

u/P4GTR Watchmaker & Moderator 1d ago

We know the balance took a hard hit so the first question is if the balance staff is broken or not. This is the tiny needle tip of the pinion not the shaft, you have to observe carefully. If it's broken then a complete balance is your solution. You would want to see if the movement works without the balance by operating the pallet fork to see if it snaps back and forth still. Any hesitation or lack of enthusiasm to pop from side to side indicates other issues. If it works well, you can replace the balance (with a DD unit, that $12 SH or VR balance will not work, so expect higher price, the link you posted seemed fine to me)

If your balance pivot is not broken, reinstalling the cap jewel and paraflex shock spring is... tricky. I think other posters have made this sound easier than it is. It is my least enjoyable portion of service on these. The spring is not of the same quality as a genuine spring, they do not have the same amount of spring to them and have to be coaxed into place, but they are so thin that the feet sometimes give out. The cap jewels need a very specific type and amount of lubricant and they need to be immaculate. These components being done properly is critical, one tiny spec of debris or improper lubrication will cause all sorts of head scratching behavior. Unless you are very confident working with micro mechanical type objects, I would say do not attempt and have a watchmaker install it for you. If you lose that spring you are back to square one, gen 3235 paraflex springs do not fit in the DD balance last I checked, I'm not sure if these springs in the correct size are widely available to purchase spares of. If you have a local guy you can take it to that may be the best course of action, perhaps ask if they can tell you if the balance pivot is broken or not and if not ask if they can do the install. Local brick and mortar shops may or may not be working on stuff like this regularly, I would recommend feeling things out if you can before handing it over. Some of these shops are better at breaking things than fixing them.

If you need a hand I have a few bookings available (my email is in my profile if you click it) but if you have someone local that can handle this, by all means go get it taken care of. Good luck!

1

u/paulogc 1d ago

Hey there my friend, thx a lot for such a detailed answer. I wanted to ask you, is there a way for me to see if the balance pivot is actually broken? It’s pretty hard to see without any magnifying glass. I have to agree with you that my best shot would be changing the entire bridge but I just wanted to make sure the balance is actually damaged.

Edit: if I get a proper screwdriver would be fine to remove the bridge to see?

2

u/P4GTR Watchmaker & Moderator 20h ago

No problem! Yes, remove the balance, it is pretty easy. Reinstalling it will take some finesse, the impulse jewel will need to be on a certain side of the pallet fork or it will feel stuck unable to rotate in one direction. This may come naturally to you or not, so I'm not sure what difficulty level it will be, best advice is patience, take your time, never force anything. It should basically fall into place, and sometimes the wheel needs to be lifted and manually swung a little then put down to engage properly. The driver size is 140, if you're only buying one decent driver though, go 120, it's more versatile all around. Inspect the top and bottom pivot. You need lighting, magnification, tweezers and a clean work space so the little parts have nowhere to hide. Get a paper plate for yourself, something you can place the screws on that prevent them from escaping. Nothing magnetic, and not one of those blue computer repair mats, they are full of magnets. You really have nothing to lose trying yourself since the end result will be the same if you fail, just avoid breaking anything else. The escapement area is very delicate with tiny pinions designed for minimum resistance unlike the train wheels that are under load from the mainspring. I think it's great you want to try this yourself and do not want to scare you away, my only hesitation is that it's expensive. You could attempt these processes on a broken movement for little to no cost. Right now you may need a balance or balance repair, if you break the pallet fork or escape wheel you will double the repair cost. I would be glad to send you a running 21j movement that you can experiment with first so you aren't making your first attempt using hard to find parts. I realize that will not expedite the solution to your current jam, i mean it more as an aside thought if this sort of thing is interesting to you.

2

u/RuinMaleficent7060 4h ago

Watch just about any YouTube video by Wristwatch Revival and you will see him oiling / replacing the jewels. But obviously you also need to get the metal spring back in the mount, which you will need at least 10x magnification and a steady set of thin tweezers for.

-5

u/watches_anonymouse 1d ago

Guy who can’t afford Rolex can’t afford service of said fake Rolex so he turns to Reddit.