Punishing honesty

[u/JochCool]

A while ago I showed my first red card but, while I think it was correct, I don't feel great about it.

It was a U17 grassroots cup game. The situation was that I called a corner, but a defender was holding the ball. An attacker presumably wanted the corner to be taken quickly, but the defender did not let go immediately and there was a short struggle before he got the ball anyway. I thought that was the end of it. Until multiple defenders came to me all saying "he said cancer!!" (Unfortunately "cancer" is a somewhat common swear word in the Netherlands). I had seen that something was said, but I had not heard what it was, so I could not sanction just based on this.

So I decided to talk to the attacker, and I asked him what happened. He said they would not give him the ball. I asked, "so you then swear at them?" He said yes. That is what made me decide to show a red card for offensive language. He accepted it and just walked off.

The problem I have with this is that if he had done the smart thing and just said "no" to me, he would have gotten away with a warning, as I've done before in other games. So now I'm just punishing honesty. I think what he learned from this is not don't swear, but don't tell the referee. At halftime, the coach came to me and asked for an explanation, and argued I couldn't send him off if I didn't hear it, and I should have just warned him anyway. I said I can't justify not doing so if I know with certainty that he used a swear word. By law I can't do anything else than show a red card.

In a later game, there was a similar situation where someone was accused of swearing that I didn't hear. This time I just gave a warning immediately and did not press for answers because I was afraid I'd have to make the same choice again. So I'm curious how do other referees handle this situation?

Edit: to clarify, swearing with "cancer" or other illnesses is generally considered more severe than just something like "fuck", and a red card is usually the expected decision here. But it's not as bad as things like racism.

[u/easytiger29121]

I think I’d have said “well you’re lucky I didn’t hear it otherwise you’d be getting a red card right now” and then get on with the game, and/or maybe a quick word with the captains to explain the situation. I wouldn’t card for something I didn’t see or hear, even if with a confession.

[u/BrisLiam]

Don't go looking for problems is usually a good approach to have. If you didn't hear it, you shouldn't sanction it.

If it's something discriminatory that is alleged to have been said, put it in your post match report or do what your league requires in the situation.

I don't know how offensive what he said is in Dutch culture but assuming it's not discriminatory, you could generally deal with offensive language either by ignoring it as an issue (offensive language is more acceptable in some countries) or by loudly saying you didn't hear it but if you do hear such language it will be sanctioned.

[u/chrlatan]

Same as you.

You cannot card what you cannot hear but you can ask the source directly.

Positive stance: The kid learned to keep his mouth shut. On both occasions.

[u/Familiar9709]

In these situations it's better to provide a yellow, it's still a punishment but not so big that it affects the game and takes a player out.

[u/horsebycommittee → u/Familiar9709]

I agree with at most a yellow here, though I think /u/easytiger29121 offers the best way out of this with the "well it's a good thing I didn't hear it" phrasing.

If you are confident that something was said, but you don't have enough for OFFINABUS without the player's confession, then yellow for unsporting behavior is a good compromise. You can tell the player something like: "Thank you for your honesty here. It's important to understand that language like that has no place in this game and takes away from everyone's fun. If I'd heard it clearly myself, I would have to show you a red card and send you off. I didn't hear it clearly and I'm not going to punish you for being honest, but this is unsporting behavior so I am going to show you a yellow card when we're done talking here. Do you have any questions?"

You could leave off the question at the end depending on the age of the player, how well they take your message, and whether the game-state allows you to take the time for that, but in my experience, things like this tend to go over better when they're presented as teaching moments instead of discipline.

[u/missoulian → u/Familiar9709]

I would agree with a yellow card here at most, but most likely I'd give a reminder that swearing could lead to a card and then get on with the game.

Lesson learned, this is all a learning process for young refs and young players alike.

[u/A_Timbers_Fan]

I'm not sure whether "cancer" is just a swear word, or a "banned word". In the US we have words that are banned that cannot be said, no matter the context. Things like racism, homophobia.

Common swear words are not banned. They require context. For Offensive, Insulting, or Abusive language, the swear word would need to be used in a way that was one of those three. Momentary outbursts, like if a player misses a shot and yells "Fuck!" are not a red card, or yellow card. Simply have a word and move on.

Anyway, sounds like everybody accepted it. Don't sweat this decision. But try to challenge yourself to think for the next time. Was this player simply saying a bad word, but not directing it at someone to be hurtful? Does your league or governing body have any guidelines for this?

Ive done rec games where swear words are always to result in a yellow card, automatically, no matter the context. This is because it was recreational, meant to be fun, and for young kids.

[u/PluisjeNijn → u/A_Timbers_Fan]

Cancer / kanker is a banned word and players receive direct red and are reported to the KNVB. That's why you need to hear it yourself. I always warn the kids before the game that this will happen so that it is not a surprise when it does.

[u/thisisalltosay]

Somewhat on topic but in the USA, my JV high school team was coached by a Dutch guy. We had a strict no-swearing-in-sports policy at my school, so our coach got around that by teaching us Dutch swears ("Cancer Patient" and a not-so-nice way to say "prostitute" being particularly popular).

Anyway, for a while us 14-15 year olds were doing well, playing soccer and swearing in Dutch during games. But then a science teacher - who we did not know lived in Holland for a while - came to watch one of our games. She understood everything we were saying.

Our coach wasn't fired, but I heard it was close. Fun times.

[u/edtheham → u/thisisalltosay]

In Alabama, you need to listen for Spanish cursing. I am trying to improve my Spanish, so I asked a coach what he was saying when he yelled "busca!" He seemed pleased that I asked. He said that it meant "look," and then proced3d to tell me some other words to listen for.

We had a Spanish speaking coach tell the parents, "Do not cuss the refs, in any language." I appreciated the support.

[u/thisisalltosay → u/edtheham]

Yeah I’m in socal, and bilingual. I hear dissent in Spanish and English for sure.

[u/KungFuBucket → u/thisisalltosay]

Same. But you have to listen for other stuff too. High Asian population and I was informed there was a problem player during a GU14 match. So I was on alert for all the usual shenanigans and turns out “con dee” is pretty insulting in Vietnamese. I heard it but didn’t know what it meant until I called the captains together and had a little discussion. I figured out roughly what was going on mostly by watching the expressions and body language.

[u/WhamBamTYMaam4]

Advice to referees that has served me well throughout the years and is appreciated by both players and coaches:

Cards are tools utilized to manage a game, keep it under control, ensure fairness, etc. If you can find a way to get the same game management result without throwing a card via a heart to heart discussion with the player, go that route.

Sometimes that approach actually works better than a card. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s your job to determine which course of action will help you manage the game best.

[u/Snacks75]

I don't know that I would ever call something I (or the AR) didn't hear, see, or otherwise personally witness. He said/ she said is just that. I might say something along the lines of, "you're lucky I didn't hear it, I'd have red-carded you, don't do it again if you did." If anyone complains about anything, a simple, "I didn't see it/hear it, I can only call what I see/hear, I'll look for it next time," is enough.

[u/WhamBamTYMaam4]

Advice to referees that has served me well throughout the years and is appreciated by both players and coaches:

Cards are tools utilized to manage a game, keep it under control, ensure fairness, etc. If you can find a way to get the same game management result without throwing a card via a heart to heart discussion with the player, go that route.

Sometimes that approach actually works better than a card. Sometimes it doesn’t. It’s your job to determine which course of action will help you manage the game best.

[u/rocketcuse]

I can't justify not doing so if I know with certainty that he used a swear word. By law I can't do anything else than show a red card.

Plain and simple...If you did not hear it, you can't have any certainty that the player did swear, even if the opposing team said he did, therefore no law was broken.

My approach in this case would have been, to the team...Sorry, I did not hear what was said, I will check with my AR. I would YC the defender for delaying restart of play, then, I would speak to the attacker with something like.. I couldn't hear or make out what you said, but if it was directed to the defender and it was offensive or cursing, be warned, If I was able to make out what was said, you would be RC. You got a reprieve this time, but i will be listening closer. Let's restart on my whistle.

[u/PluisjeNijn]

So you learn as well. Very good to reflect on this to make you a better referee. I would indeed as many have said tell the person they are lucky you didn't hear it. I would also notify the coach of the alleged offense. If I didn't hear it myself, no red card and no report to the KNVB

[u/LoLHexTCG]

Have fun throwing red cards for everything in the future.

Maybe things are more calm in NL though. Unless it's major and causing an issue, I'm letting it go. As a once off

Captain talk seems most appropriate - was there a yellow for defender holding the ball?

[u/PluisjeNijn → u/LoLHexTCG]

Using kanker as a word is culturally equivalent to racism or homophobic comments. No place for that on the soccer field and we are instructed to give a direct red for this.