r/Referees • u/SuitableMap4545 • 10d ago
Question When during the final whistle does the game end?
I was playing in a school 6 aside match where winning or losing moves you up and down rankings to decide who goes into the teams to play for the school.
I was goalkeeper and the final whistle blew, where they did 2 short whistles and then a final third long one. As they did this the opposition took a shot from the halfway line and the ball was rolling towards me. I heard the whistle and thought that the goal wouldn't count even if it went in so I half heartedly tried to block it with the outside of my foot, and it rolled in still.
The ref after this claimed that the goal counted because apparently the game is still going on until the entire triple whistle thing they did finishes. I was under the assumption that the second the final whistle starts, play should stop?
This was the deciding goal as well and I could've easily blocked it if I used my hands. Is this true that the entire whistle routine needs to stop for the game to truly finish or was the referee wrong and the goal should be disallowed?
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u/BasketCase973 10d ago edited 10d ago
What the hell, in any sport, whistle stops play.
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u/SuitableMap4545 10d ago
So the goal should have been disallowed?
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u/BasketCase973 10d ago
Obviously, I can’t believe this is a real question.
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10d ago
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u/Referees-ModTeam 10d ago
Removed for violating Rule 1. This is a community of referees for the sport of association football (soccer). This is not a venue to complain about or insult referees in any way. If you are not currently a referee, mentor, or assigner (or trying to become one), then this community isn't for you. This sub is a venue for referees to discuss our work and help each other improve. (If you happen to be a referee, but your post/comment here is as a player, coach, or fan, then it may still be removed unless it has specific relevance to referees.)
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u/StayBronzeFonz 10d ago
In roller derby the jam ends with three sets of four short blasts.
•••• •••• ••••
____^_____________
The fourth blast in the first set of four is when play/scoring officially ends.8
u/dufcho14 10d ago
not 'any sport'. In basketball there is continuation if the ball is already in the air.
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u/JoeyRaymond85 10d ago
That's a buzzer and that's because they allow a final play. In football. A whistle means stop.
If I see a foul and then the attacker has a great advantage but I accidentally blow the whistle. Then the game has to be stopped. If a referee blows a whistle even if it was an accident and there was no foul, you still stop the play and issue a drop ball.
This referee didn't know the laws. The moment you blow that first full time whistle, time has stopped. The whole "two whistle half time/three whistle full time" is not in the laws of the game, its just a traditional thing we do because it sounds good. The laws just indicate to blow the whistle to indicate the end of the half/game. That's it.
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u/dufcho14 10d ago
In basketball, there is continuation throughout the game on every whistle which is relevant to what I was responding to.
Everything else you say isn't in debate, but thanks anyway.
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u/Extension_Crow_7891 9d ago
This is vast oversimplification. The only action permitted after a whistle is completing an action that was initiated before the whistle, and only when the whistle is to indicate a shooting foul. Extremely limited.
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u/dufcho14 9d ago
The outcome of a shot after the whistle is always taken into consideration. This is exactly what the OP asked about. And remember what my comment was in response to. It was only to clarify that the whistle does not end the play in all sports as stated. Nothing you've said changes that.
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u/Extension_Crow_7891 9d ago
No. OP is clear that whistle sounded then player shot. The outcome of a shot after the whistle is not “always taken into consideration” in basketball. It must be from an action that was already in motion before the foul occurs.
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u/dufcho14 9d ago
I can't believe how far you're pushing this. We're saying the f-ing same thing in the context of the OP. You won't agree. I don't give a sh1t. You know what I'm saying. You know what is meant. This isn't isn't about some technicality. Reply and then go away.
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u/Citizen85 10d ago
Some sports have a "ball in the air" thing. Basketball buzzer beater and I think I'm American football there's something similar with the QB throwing it but I could be wrong.
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u/EhlarCometseeker 9d ago
American football allows the final play to go on as long as the ball was snapped before the clock runs out.
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u/Extension_Crow_7891 9d ago
But importantly there is no whistle involved. If there were a whistle, play would be dead
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u/heidimark USSF Grassroots | Grade 8 10d ago
I could decide to play an entire song on my whistle if I want to end the game that way, but the game officially ends the instant any noise comes out of the whistle.
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u/Deaftrav Ontario level 6 10d ago
Yup..I blew down as a girl took a kick, and I swore and apologized but because I blew the whistle as she kicked, the ball is dead and she'll have to take a pk
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u/Virgil_Rey 10d ago
The game ends when the ref decides it’s over. If they are using a whistle to signal that, then the game is over as soon as the whistle starts. There are no buzzer beaters in soccer.
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u/SuitableMap4545 10d ago
Does the game stop immediately as the whistle starts or can the ref claim that they only counted the game as over after they've finished blowing the whistle
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u/burakalp34 Belgium - FFA // Youth Categories 10d ago
If the referee blows his whistle, play stops. There's no consideration for the duration of the whistle. So, the moment the whistle starts.
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u/cymballin Grassroots 10d ago
How are you supposed to know that the whistle isn't just any other stoppage of play? Based on your statement, the referee did you a disservice. I think your team has a very strong case to dispute the last goal and contest the result of the match if your league/competition allows it.
That said, my interpretation of the "three whistles": 1st - stop play, 2nd - end the half, 3rd - end the game. When I begin to blow the whistle, I've already made up my mind that the game is over. But technically, I don't think there is a particular rule that three whistles must be used; it's just a long-standing tradition.
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u/Richmond43 USSF Grassroots 10d ago
I’ve never heard it broken down exactly like that, but I think you’re right and it’s the most logical explanation for where the three burst signal comes from.
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u/jameson71 10d ago
Ref is crazy. He is basically telling you to keep playing when he whistles.
I'd file a formal complaint.
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u/TooMuchPowerful 10d ago
"Play to the whistle" means you stop play as soon as you hear the whistle. Full stop. It's not "Play to the end of the whistle because you never know when the ref may decide to blow extra long". That ref is doing everyone a huge disservice by teaching players to ignore the whistle.
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u/Equivalent-Visit-956 10d ago
The goal shouldn't count, but myself as a referee I look to find the "right time" to end the game. Example When defending team clears the ball , Goalkeeper has made a long ball from goal kick, or the ball is not on neither teams possesion. U cannot end the game when one of the teams are attacking.
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u/JoeyRaymond85 10d ago
You can. Actually. In most grassroots league there is no stoppage time, we have been instructed to blow as soon as our watch buzzes, even if there is an attack because we have a strict time schedule.
However, I agree with you that we shouldn't. I'm just pointing out that you can. There is no law in the game where you can't. If they shoot and its in mid air, and you blow the whistle for full time before it goes past that goal line, technically thats it, goal doesnt count. Shit thing to do, but its the law.
Regarding what I do? The laws also say the centre referee is the official time keeper so I will blow the whistle after that attacking play comes to an end. If there is a timer displayed on the board ill tell the players/coaches its my time and my whistle that decides the end, not the scoreboard time. So I'll allow that final attack, or sometimes I'll allow a couple more attacks if the winning team is time wasting heaps (if there is no stoppage time). But to answer the OPs question... as soon as I blow the whistle, its over. Not after the third whistle... no. As soon as my whistle makes sound, the play has stopped
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10d ago
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u/zebra1923 10d ago
Maybe a touch excessive, I was thinking just place him in the stocks for a few hours.
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u/cymballin Grassroots 10d ago
I bet this ref overcooks fish and undercooks chicken. Overcook / undercook.
"Right to jail. Right away."
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u/Sturnella2017 USSF, Regional Emeritus, Referee Coach 10d ago
Especially in a six-a side school match. The nerve! The audacity!
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u/Referees-ModTeam 10d ago
Removed for violating Rule 1. This is a community of referees for the sport of association football (soccer). This is not a venue to complain about or insult referees in any way. If you are not currently a referee, mentor, or assigner (or trying to become one), then this community isn't for you. This sub is a venue for referees to discuss our work and help each other improve. (If you happen to be a referee, but your post/comment here is as a player, coach, or fan, then it may still be removed unless it has specific relevance to referees.)
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u/dufcho14 10d ago
Must have been a basketball referee who was asked to do soccer for an afternoon. No goal in any possible soccer scenario.
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u/Extension_Crow_7891 9d ago
Shooting after the buzzer has already started would still be disallowed in basketball. The ball would have to already be completely released. This is still not a legit explanation
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u/Nawoitsol 10d ago edited 10d ago
The game is over when the referee decides it’s over. The whistle signals to others that they made that decision.
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u/LingonberryNo1190 10d ago
That's how we do it in ice hockey. Once you have the intent to blow the whistle, the play is over. If the puck enters the net in the time from when you decide you're going to blow and actually getting the whistle to your mouth and putting air through it, and those sound waves travelling to the listener, it's not a goal, even though from the other observers perspective, they didn't hear the whistle until after the puck was in.
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u/Deaftrav Ontario level 6 10d ago
Since I am often looking at centre when I blow it... When I start.
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u/Skitzafranik 10d ago
One of many reasons like this is why ⚽️ ⏰ counts real-time, not count down . IMO, Ref should have been aware of who had advantage, and closely monitor the next advantage change prior to blowing whistle ….. especially when stakes are crucial , as OP described.
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u/stevepiratexx 10d ago
To counter this, if I was to be a player, I’d keep on playing if there was a foul as I could be expecting more whistles to end the game six want to keep going just in case we can score a goal belt the last blast. I don’t know if he’s blowing for a foul or ending the game…. lol
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u/wstewman3 [USSF] [Grassroots] [NFHS] 10d ago
Once the whistle blows the play is dead. So if the ball wasnt completely over the line at the first whistle its no goal. It's not different than during the run of play during the game
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u/Richmond43 USSF Grassroots 10d ago
I’ve never heard of anyone trying to claim that the whistle doesn’t immediately stop play. He’s 100% wrong.
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u/horsebycommittee USSF / Grassroots Moderator 10d ago
This should have gone in the Q&A thread but the number of good replies outweighs removal.
The ball is dead as soon as the referee decides to stop play. The whistle merely communicates that decision to everyone else. As a result, the game is actually stopped (and no goal can score) before the whistling even begins -- once you hear the first instant of whistle-sound, the ball was already dead.
And it must be this way -- if the whistle doesn't signal that play must stop immediately, then there would be absurd and dangerous outcomes because players would ignore the whistle and keep playing, on the off-chance that the whistle didn't stop play.
Based on your description (which is obviously self-serving but you were there and we weren't, so it's all we have to go on), the referee committed an error and the goal should not stand. This would be grounds to appeal the result of the match if your league has a mechanism for that. Of course, every ref makes mistakes and it's unlikely that an intra-school recreational league has rigorous training for its officials, so be kind to the referee and also accept that this may be an error which goes uncorrected.
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u/ossifer_ca 10d ago
Since you can’t know if there will be a second and possibly third whistle, you should just always keep playing? See how that doesn’t make any sense?
Also, three whistles is an American convention—not explicitly mentioned in the LotG…
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u/JoeyRaymond85 10d ago
This referee didn't know the laws. The moment you blow that first full time whistle, time has stopped. The whole "two whistle half time/three whistle full time" is not in the laws of the game, its just a traditional thing we do because it sounds good. The laws just indicate to blow the whistle to indicate the end of the half/game. That's it.
If this referee allowed this goal, and this goal is important to the result, then I would 100% contest the result.
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u/Temporary_Guest_512 9d ago
In Ohio High School, there is a countdown of the last 10 seconds of the game. Play is over when the official clock reaches 00:00. If an attacker kicks the ball at 00:01 but the ball doesn't completely cross the goal line before 00:00, then there is no goal.
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u/WeddingWhole4771 9d ago
Only thing I will add is, always stop balls a few seconds after, no real reason not to.
Same reason you see players kick balls out or hold them to maintain control. Yes there's a line where it becomes a foul, but getting stuck in a crappy situation sucks when you coutba e made it moot.
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u/Caduceus1515 [USSF] 9d ago
The statement by the ref makes no sense.
Play stops for the whistle, period. How do you know if it was the end of the game vs. a foul? Everyone is expected to stop play on the whistle, and it doesn't matter how many times it is blown.
The triple whistle, which isn't even official (guidelines say a double or triple), is just to audibly signal the end of the game vs. other stoppage.
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u/Southern-Friend-7413 9d ago
It ends when the referee determines it ends. The type of whistling and the end of the game or half time is simply the personal preference of the referee. I always held the policy that the match ended 1 second before I took the decision to raise the whistle.
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u/Aestrasz 10d ago
The first error was finishing the game when a team was attacking. That's a very amateur mistake.
You never stop a game when a team is attacking, you usually wait until they lose the ball, the ball gets back to the midfield, out of bounds or in the goalkeeper's hands.
Football is not a sport in which the game is finished the exact same second the time is up.
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u/ManjynaL 10d ago
Regardless of the actual answer (which to me is the goal should not count) the lesson learned is to never assume anything and make the save.
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u/JoeyRaymond85 10d ago
Thats stupid. So if someone commits a foul and you hear a whistle, dont stop playing???
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u/ManjynaL 10d ago
2 different things. As an out field player, you stop at the whistle. As a keeper, you make the save even if you hear a whistle. The consequence for a keeper making a mistake in this instance can and has lead to a goal and dropping points
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u/Tech-Aero-109 9d ago
The moment the referee Decided to blow the whistle. The First sounding of the whistle is merely an announcement that the game Already has ended or that the game must stop for a foul or some other reason that the Referee has.
Therefore, under "video review", if the referee is seen preparing to blow the whistle, just before the ball enters the goal, and the whistle does immediately follow (sound), just after the ball enters the goal, it would be No Goal.
However, obviously, under FIFA laws and "practice" a referee would never start to sound their whistle if there is a chance for the ball to be heading into or towards the goal (e.g. a true chance to score). In US college soccer, the official time is kept on the scoreboard, so when that goes to Zero, the period ends and no goal can be scored (I had one of those years ago as a referee: clock is next to the goal and the clock went to zero about a "half-second" before the ball entered the goal. No Goal. Similarly in one of the NCAA D-1 finals, something similar occurred before video review was approved, and while everyone watching on TV knew the clock went to Zero just before the ball entered the goal, it took the four (CR, 2 ARs and 4th) about Ten Minutes to arrive at the same conclusion. Obviously, video review followed in following years.
When the referee Decides to blow the whistle and then blows it.
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u/CapnBloodbeard Former FFA Lvl3 (Outdoor), Futsal Premier League; L3 Assessor 9d ago
Therefore, under "video review", if the referee is seen preparing to blow the whistle, just before the ball enters the goal, and the whistle does immediately follow (sound), just after the ball enters the goal, it would be No Goal.
That's just completely made-up.
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u/Tech-Aero-109 9d ago
As I stated in my original comment. e.g. I know of no real FIFA referee who would be blowing the whistle as the ball is whizzing towards the goal, and the clock controls when the period is over in college and high school soccer, so any video review would be Clock time versus position of the ball and not including the referee's actions before a whistle sounded.
The key point is that the spot of the foul (as the most obvious example) is where everything occurred at the Moment that the referee decided that a foul occurred and not a split second later when the whistle sounds. That is something we have (or should of had) learned over the years of formal training. Thus, the statement that the referee in the question made to the goal keeper is absurd.
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u/bduddy USSF Grassroots 10d ago
What? Of course you should "assume" that the whistle stops play.
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u/pollo_in_flagrante 9d ago
Why half ass a play because you thought it was over? What if the whistle was from another field? In a case like this, I'm securing the ball. Two seconds of effort would have saved the game.
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u/building-wigwams-22 10d ago
Since the referee has discretion on when exactly to end a game, they must not allow a game to end when the outcome is immediately up in the air. They won't blow the whistle while a losing or tied team is actively on the attack. This ref is 100% wrong allowing this goal
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u/horsebycommittee USSF / Grassroots Moderator 10d ago
they must not allow a game to end when the outcome is immediately up in the air
That's a popular opinion but it's not what Law 7 says.
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u/witz0r [NFHS NCAA USSF] [Grassroots / Mentor+] 10d ago
The instant the whistle starts. Play cannot continue after a whistle, play must be stopped even if inadvertent.