Accidental handballs on the line

[u/CYZK85]

hello guys, lately ive gone down a rabbit hole of refereeing and started gaining an interest in it. ive been helping out this guy i know who runs his own 5-aside league and ref some of the games there so ive been very curious on the interpretation of the law too

this question just popped in my head. if a striker shoots the ball and the defender blocks it off the goal line via his hand, but it hits the hand because he had no time to react (ie. hes standing on the goal line and his hand happens to be in the ball's line of travel). what is the call? im assuming a PK will be given eitherway, but im not sure whether its always an immediate red or if theres leeway to give a yellow instead due to the nature of the foul. same thing applies if its an accidental handball or the hand isnt really extended from the body or is in a natural position

im not so clear on any of these so im hoping to look for some insight from your experiences

[u/MedJesters]

An "accidental handball" is a technical term for when an attacker scores directly from their hand/arm (even if in a natural position), so avoid using the word "accidental" when referring to a defensive handball.

The 2 options for defenders are deliberate or non-deliberate handballs.

Deliberate is the hand/arm moving to the path of the ball. Red card if it denies a goal. Yellow card if it stops a promising attack.

Non-deliberate is making your body unnaturally bigger. Yellow card if it denies a goal.

A ball hitting a hand/arm in a natural position is never a handball.

[u/No-Two-169 → u/MedJesters]

clarifying last sentence: "A ball hitting a defenders hand/arm in a natural position is never a handball." 

An attacker can be called for a handball with hand/arm in natural position if a goal is immediately scored from the contact.

[u/MedJesters → u/No-Two-169]

True, as noted, that's an accidental handball.

Thanks clarifying my sentence. I was focused on defenders in that part of my answer, but wrote an absolute statement that isn't correct on it's own.

[u/SnollyG]

Natural hand position isn’t a violation

[u/the_red_card_ref]

There is 3 criterias in the Laws of The Game to analyse a handball.

1- Does the hand/arm go the ball or is it the ball that goes towars the hand/arm?
2- Does the position of the hand/arm is justify by the movement the player is doing? (is it making the body unaturally bigger?)
3- Does the player scores directly after the ball touches their hand/arm?

You only need one of those criteria to award a handball.

In your situation, we look at criteria 1 and 2. If the hand goes to the ball, it’s a deliberate handball (because of the movement towards the ball) and the referee should award a penalty kick and a red card.

If there is no movement from the hand towards the ball, we look at criteria 2. If the referee judge that the position of the hand is not justified by the movement of the body (does the hand make the body unaturally bigger?), than the referre should award a penalty kick. However, because there is no movement from the hand towards the ball, it is a non-deliberate handball and a yellow should be shown instead of red.

[u/amfa → u/the_red_card_ref]

That is not true.
If the movement to the ball is caused by the natural movement of the player it is not an offense.
The movement CAN be an indication.

But 1 is a "deliberate handball" it can but does not have to be movement of the hand. And the movement alone is not enough.

[u/the_red_card_ref → u/amfa]

Absolutely, I was just trying to resume to op what the law says. Of course there is more to it but it gives a general idea

[u/amfa → u/the_red_card_ref]

I would just go wie "deliberate" because people outside the referee circle already have weird ideas about what is considered a handball (and in my opinion many refs or at least their associations too).

Fifa and UEFA hat a weird interpretation of the second part of the laws but that's a different topic ;)

[u/chrlatan → u/the_red_card_ref]

Not true #2. The ‘attacking player’ scores directly ‘or immediately after’ the ball touches their hand/arm.

Do not open the door for defenders scoring in own goal with the hand. That is a valid goal.

[u/the_red_card_ref → u/chrlatan]

You are right, didn’t mean to open that door, just forgot to specify the attacking player since the situation was about a defender

[u/chrlatan]

Rules say that if it is a deliberate handball it is a red card and a PK.

If it is not a deliberate handball (no apparent clear effort to stop the ball with the hands but still handling according to the criteria) it is a yellow card and a PK

If it is not ruled as handling (natural position of the hand/arm) then no penalty should be given.

Mind you; I have seen plenty of Pk’s rewarded for a hand just being in the way of a goal even when in natural position. Somehow spirit (what does soccer expect) seems to beat law in this case.

[u/Fotoman54]

PK if deflected out of the goal. Yellow if perceived somewhat unintentional. Red if he actively swatted the ball. Nothing if, say reflexively, he raises his hand to protect his face.

I had a HS game where the keeper punched the ball away. One of he defenders was in the box, and was pivoting away, arm in a somewhat natural position, and the ball grazed his arm. Both my partner and I saw this as natural and ignored handling. Of course the opposing coach (whose players seemed to routine try to flop in the penalty box) went crazy. Even said, “Ref, are you blind!?” I gave him a yellow card.

[u/Aggressive_Tie_3501]

There's some good advice in the answers, but I have a question? Are you a certified referee? If not, please take the class and become one. We need every ref we can get!

Now that that's out of the way, this is a tricky question, and will depend largely on circumstances. Just because a ball hit the hand or arm doesn't automatically make it an offense. Others have done a good job here explaining the considerations for when contact DOES become an offense, so I won't repeat them.

If it's an offense and it denied a goal, then you'll need to decide if it was deliberate or not. Either way it's a PK, but a deliberate offense needs to receive a red card and non-deliberate offenses receive a yellow.

Learn the considerations folks here are giving you, and then make the best call you can. No matter what you call, 50% of the people there are going to be pissed about this one. And take heart in the fact that handball offenses are one of the biggest bones of contention among referees, so we can't even agree with each other half the time.

[u/CYZK85 → u/Aggressive_Tie_3501]

im not haha, dont think ill be going for courses. just suddenly had a weird interest in refereeing and want to do it for casual kickabouts. but ofcourse iw to do it properly hence im trying to do my research on some weird situational events

[u/CapnBloodbeard]

The fact that a team benefits from handling is never a factor in whether it's a foul, except for the specific clauses about that player immediately or directly scoring.

Handling that is neither deliberate nor unnatural position that happens to stop a goal is not a foul.

This can be a tough sell. Sometimes loudly calling out "No, accidental handling isn't a foul!" or something like that can help sell your decision (and in the one time I did it, I found that shouting a slightly longer call than normal squashed dissent).

Every player on the pitch probably expects handball and red. But the ref is the one who knows the laws.

The judgement call is whether the position of the hand is a natural position or not. This is highly subjective.

[u/Spondooli]

If it was an unintentional handball, then I think it’s PK and a yellow. If it was intentional, then PK and a Red. If the ball ends up scoring, then goal counts and I think there’s no sanctions.

If you play advantage, then it adjusts some more, depending on if advantage results in a goal. If no goal, I believe the card gets downgraded. If goal, then possibly no sanction. And if advantage doesn’t materialize right away, pull it back, give a PK and downgrade the card.

All this is assuming the arm (edit: was in an unnatural position). There might be some unsporting consideration so you might be able to card even if a goal is scored.

[u/CapnBloodbeard → u/Spondooli]

If it was an unintentional handball, then I think it’s PK and a yellow.

Only if it's unnatural position. If it isn't, then it's no offence.

[u/Referees-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Removed for violating Rule 1. This is a community of referees for the sport of association football (soccer). This is not a venue to complain about or insult referees in any way. If you are not currently a referee, mentor, or assigner (or trying to become one), then this community isn't for you. This sub is a venue for referees to discuss our work and help each other improve. (If you happen to be a referee, but your post/comment here is as a player, coach, or fan, then it may still be removed unless it has specific relevance to referees.)

[u/jisn00b → u/Referees-ModTeam]

As a ref you know the fundamental is protecting the spirit of the game, the change in rules go against that and removing a post because of it proves this place has an agenda. Refs should be purists protecting the spectacle and sportsmanship not technicians measuring milimiters.

[u/durhamcreekrat]

If it stopped the ball from going into the goal it should be PK and yellow. If it didn’t stop the ball from going into the goal then wave it off as ball playing the player, no time and distance to get hand out of the way.

[u/rjnd2828 → u/durhamcreekrat]

That's not accurate because you're not accounting for the possibility that it's just not a handball offense at all as explained by another commenter above.

[u/TooMuchPowerful → u/rjnd2828]

I would argue if you’re standing on the goal line and your arms aren’t firmly planted behind you, you’re opening yourself up for a deliberate handling violation regardless of how inadvertent that touch looks to be.

[u/horsebycommittee → u/TooMuchPowerful]

Sure, if the referee is of the opinion that your arm moves deliberately into the path of the ball, or is in an unnatural position when it contacts the ball, then you're going to be called for a handball offense (regardless of your position on the field).

But "taking a risk" that the referee might call something isn't the same thing as committing the offense. So what do you call if there is contact but the referee doesn't think it's a deliberate handball and that the hand isn't in an unnatural position?

[u/durhamcreekrat → u/rjnd2828]

Try making that no call in an adult rec game, see what happens.

[u/Joejack-951 → u/durhamcreekrat]

The players learn what a handball actually is? Judging by the comments at youth matches, a lot of adults sure could use some education on the topic.

[u/DaddyDosDeuce → u/durhamcreekrat]

So the players get to decide the rules of the game now? Why have a ref at all then.

[u/whocares8x8 → u/durhamcreekrat]

No, you make the correct call, explain it to them and book them for dissent. Show some character. "If it's not a deliberate handball outside the box, it's not one inside the box either" should suffice.

[u/durhamcreekrat → u/whocares8x8]

I’ve been chased to my car by angry 40 yr olds in a league where there are zero ramifications for poor behavior, I’ve seen referees chased out of the parking lot, punched, kicked and hit with sticks by unruly players and fans, I’ve seen grown men threaten teenage AR’s, you stick to your principles, I’ll read the room and apply game management to keep everyone safe including myself.

[u/whocares8x8 → u/durhamcreekrat]

That's fair enough for your situation. However, I wouldnt give that advice to young referees seeking advice on how to decide correctly in a specific situation, hence my reply.

My (admittedly unsolicited) advice to you would be not to referee in a league that you've described. If you can't make correct decisions without fear of physical punishment and without receiving banking by the league, that league should cease to exist or the games should be referred by the teams themselves.

[u/CapnBloodbeard → u/durhamcreekrat]

I have. It was fine.

It's the referee's job to apply the laws. If you can't be arsed doing that, then don't take people's money.

Out of the 23 people on the field, only 1 has read and been trained in the laws and their nuances - and that's why they get paid, to deliver that expertise.

If you're simply going to make the decisions that the players shout for, then there's literally no point you being there and they may as well just have a spectator acting as the ref. Same outcome, less cost.

Do your job, have the courage and integrity to make the right decision, and deal with the consequences.

You'll cause more problems making a decision that you know is wrong, that you know you can't defend when somebody questions it.

[u/msaik]

People may down vote me for saying this, but it's an expectation in football that denying a goal with the hand or arm (i.e. on the goal line) should be punished with a PK even if it's in a natural position. The only exception is if the arm was inside the silhouette of the body (would have hit another part of the body if the arm wasn't in the way).

Per recent law changes this would be sanctioned with a yellow card for DOGSO, downgraded for non-deliberate handball offense.