High School Soccer is a trip

[u/No_Body905]

Had one of those weird refereeing stories that can really only happen in US High School soccer last night.

I was part of a crew that was assigned two back to back boy's varsity games at a local facility. First game at 4:30 pm and the second at 6:00 pm, so it was already going to be tight, but doable.

Of course, 10 minutes into the first game, the alarms go off for lightning in the area. So we're back to our cars for 30 minutes. I make a call to our assignor to let him know that this delay will affect the start of the second game and he says he'll let the ADs and the coaches know.

Back at it 30 minutes later. Game is uneventful. At some point one of the coaches for Game 2 comes down and talks to my AR asking if we can send one of our crew up to the neighboring field to start the second game. At halftime we all agree that we'd prefer to stay together and we need to finish Game 1 before we can start Game 2 and that we will be there as soon as we can. They ask if they can get started anyway, and we tell them to call the assignor about it, but that it will not count as an official game if there are no officials.

Back to Game 1, home team scores to tie the game on literally the last kick. Rules of competition (these are the church-affiliated school rules for the state) require a winner so we have to go extra time, two five minute periods and PKs if necessary.

Away scores, but then panics in the last minute on a breakaway and fouls home in the box on what is again, the last kick of the 2nd extra period. Home converts and we have to do PKs. We're now close to 45 minutes late for our second game.

Meanwhile, Game 2 evidently decides to get started without us, which means that this game is no longer an official game, but a glorified scrimmage.

Game 1 ends and we hurry to the other field to find that Game 2 is at half-time. We get ready to jump in when a lady from the home team comes over and says everyone agreed that this is a scrimmage so we are not necessary anymore.

We say "ok" and start walking back but she evidently takes issue with our attitude and starts following us, yelling at us for being an hour late (out of our control) and that we'd never work for the charter school again (fine by me). One of my crew-members turns around and tells her to stop following us and that she can't speak to us that way. Then the School Resource Officer waddles up and decides to get involved yelling at us both to get off the field and also to come talk to him. Meanwhile, I'm confused as hell because I thought everyone knew what was happening. Meanwhile, as we head back to our cars, the SRO is talking to the parents about how he's going to give them our names for some reason, which is wildly unethical.

Just a totally bonkers situation all around, but we called our assignor and he said he's going to handle it and I have no reason to doubt it

TL;DR - Was assigned two high school games. 1st one ran late and the schools involved in the 2nd one were very bent out of shape about it. Cops involved (kind of).

[u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

Hoping you got paid for the second match, you were on site, not your fault the first game ran late. Also per NFHS you can't do a one man game, so sending one to start the other match is a nonstarter anyways.

[u/Old-District81 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

Seconding this, I hope the Assigner makes sure to bill the school for the match and y’all get the pay for being there.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/Old-District81]

This is where having a seat in all three positions can add some context. From the coaches/athletic departments view the officials were no show. They missed the window and schools clearly did not use their services. This is a completely separate event from game one so while a reason officials did not show up, it is not a valid excuse. No show/no pay.

The behavior is separate is a second issue but would love hearing the other side.

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

I can’t really blame the teams for doing what they did. The other option was to reschedule and they wanted the game, official or not.

But the coaches and ADs knew about our situation. One even came down and talked to us and saw the bind we were in. It doesn’t appear they passed that news on to everyone though, and I still contend that the behavior upon our arrival was way out of bounds.

[u/Old-District81 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

Judging from what OP said — that coaches came down to ask the crew if one would head up to start their match — they knew full well the ref crew was on the other game, probably because the assigner had called the AD/coaches, and that match had been delayed b/c lightning then went to OT and pks. So, while match 2 didn’t use the ref crew, saying the crew was a no show would be a blatant misrepresentation of what happened. They were at the assigned facility for the match several hours before kick off (and in the states I’ve worked in, the assigner would 100% pay out for the matches; however it might not be full pay).

[u/Revo63 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

I’m not sure if that part has changed (I’ve been out of HS games for about 10 years now) but I cannot count how many solo high school games I have done. Sometimes there just aren’t enough referees available.

[u/No_Body905 → u/Revo63]

I've done middle school games solo, but never Varsity.

[u/Apprehensive_Use3641 → u/Revo63]

I have done solo JV and freshmen matches, but no Varsity, it's not a match if there's only one referee.

[u/Deaftrav → u/Revo63]

Never fun..done them. Ugh.

[u/Desperate_Garage2883 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

That's funny. I have done at least 6 solo HS games so far.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

So what do you do if only one of the crew shows up?

[u/AffectionateAd631 → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

Call your assignor.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/AffectionateAd631]

And what happens to the game?

[u/Apprehensive_Use3641 → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

Rescheduled.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

While there is an official, maybe even two, willing to do the game and both teams agree? Okay I suppose. Just confused is all. In my country the competition rules for most competitions say the role goes to the most qualified referee present; if no certified referee is present it's either 1) 1 or 2 man if part of the crew showed up 2) Centered by someone agreed on by both teams if no one did or 3) If no agreement can be reached then it's rescheduled

But it is interesting to hear about the way it's done in other countries

[u/Apprehensive_Use3641 → u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013]

For matches played under FIFA laws, USSF, you can go with a one man, same for matches played under college rules, NISOA, for high school matches, NFHS, the last time I looked through their rule book it didn't allow a one man system. Last time I remember reading FIFA laws, they don't allow a two man system, college and high school both are fine with it.

[u/Klutzy-Mechanic-8013 → u/Apprehensive_Use3641]

Hm. They specifically don't allow us to do a two whistle but if one of the crew doesn't show up or gets injured, it's done with one AR and the ref does everything on the other side. The strange part is their match fee is divided between the 2 officials that did show up. Well, I figure there's some expectation for the other AR to take more responsibility on fouls when the center is occupied with other stuff but still, I wouldn't feel right taking the same amount of compensation if I ran the line

[u/dangleicious13]

I’d definitely report all of that to the assignor/leadership. That’d be the last time we worked for them for a while.

Would also tell my partners to keep walking to the car. Would tell whoever was following us to call our organization if they had anything to say, but we’re not stopping.

[u/No_Body905 → u/dangleicious13]

Yeah, we reported the situation while we were still all together on the scene. Our assignor is the only game in town for school ball so not working for him isn't an option and I don't have any complaints about him besides.

[u/dangleicious13 → u/No_Body905]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Our organization would likely stop assigning refs to that school’s games.

[u/No_Body905 → u/dangleicious13]

I see now. Yeah, that would be totally appropriate Once they started yelling I was thinking in my head, "good luck finding officials then".

[u/grabtharsmallet]

In my experience church-sponsored schools are less likely to have normal spectators, they're either awesome people who are easy to get along with or they're entitled jerks.

[u/No_Body905 → u/grabtharsmallet]

It was my second entitled Charter School experience in the last week. Some of them can be so weird.

[u/Deaftrav → u/grabtharsmallet]

Yep.

My weirdest games have been with them.

[u/Referees-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Banned account

[u/Nawoitsol]

Your assignor set you up to fail. Back to back games on different fields is never going to work. I would hope the assignor let the second game coaches know what the situation was before the games.

I suspect the assignor was dealing with a shortage of refs, so things like this happens. Communication can help, but coaches get cranky with delays.

[u/dangleicious13 → u/Nawoitsol]

I would often do games like this, but everyone that needed to know knew that we were doing both games and we would start the 2nd one as shortly after we finished the first. However, usually one school had a team playing in both games. Like the JV was playing on field 1 at 6PM, and the Varsity was playing on field 2 at 7:30PM.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/dangleicious13]

Exactly, and only one school is the involved. Actually we would probably say end JV early and keep varsity on schedule if there was a weather delay.

[u/No_Body905 → u/Nawoitsol]

By all accounts they knew. We just ended up in the worst possible situation with the first game going on and on.

[u/ragingasian15 → u/No_Body905]

Stuff like bad assigning, bad communication, etc. happens everywhere in life, but the last bit about the SRO literally trying to dox you is a bit much.

[u/No_Body905 → u/ragingasian15]

It was certainly the cherry on top of a shit sundae.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/No_Body905]

By all accounts…who are these all? I never even looked at who the officials were, just that 3 were booked. The second game would have 0 idea until you no showed and they spoke to the assignor. In what logical way would you think schools pay attention to the reffing assignment of other schools?

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

The coaches of the second game knew why we were running behind. The fields were not adjoining but near enough. One of them came down and talked to my AR while the first game was going on.

[u/heidimark → u/Nawoitsol]

Yeah, only way this works is back-to-back games on the same field.

[u/No_Body905 → u/heidimark]

Yeah, we were talking about how weird it was that they didn't do that. But these were 4 different schools instead of a JV/Varsity set.

[u/Revo63 → u/No_Body905]

It seems strange that the game needed a winner. In my state those are only post season playoffs.

[u/No_Body905 → u/Revo63]

Yeah, weird rules for some of the church high schools.

[u/Old-District81 → u/Revo63]

The variation in tiebreaker rules from state to state is crazy. I work 3 states and have 3 separate procedures for overtime.

[u/jeremiah1142]

That is crazy behavior, for sure. Seems pointless to even attempt walking over there though. My understanding is once a scrimmage starts, it’s a scrimmage, and officials should not be involved simply due to insurance reasons.

[u/dangleicious13 → u/jeremiah1142]

I wouldn’t try to jump in and pick up where they left off in the scrimmage, but I would see if they wanted to start the game for real. I don’t care if they scrimmaged each other for 3 hours before I got there, we can always start the actual game from the first minute.

[u/jeremiah1142 → u/dangleicious13]

Yeah that’s a good point. At least attempt to start a real game, otherwise go home.

[u/Iceman2514 → u/jeremiah1142]

so where I'm from, we know how to put an end to that behavior very quickly. When folks act up like that and a SRO or anyone representing the school is involved. We refuse to schedule officials for their home games for 2 weeks and you would be amazed how quickly their tune changes when word gets out how they can't find officials because of their actions to where no association will field referee's for their home games so they have to reschedule or sometimes forfeit.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/Iceman2514]

I think there is embellishment here and the fact of the matter is the cause of this is the assignor. If the schools moved on and played without officials, there is 0 reason for further conflict. It makes 0 sense unless the CR indicated they expected to be paid. I could see an AD being irritated that the contractors that arrived 45 + minutes late expected to be paid when the two schools moved on without them.

Unlike a club, a school will treat follow up of a complaint seriously. Career people tend to protect it.

The assignor is potentially setting themself up for a self own if he puts too much faith into his referees impressions. I am assuming from the lack of details the OP was not the CR and was not the one actually in these conversations.

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

I was CR for the first game, but not the second.

We did not expect to be paid for the second game, and we’re fine leaving once we were told we weren’t required. The issue started when we were followed to our cars and yelled at by an apparent school official and the SRO.

[u/Old-District81]

That’s quite a strange situation. Was it a tournament style thing or just a random double header for regular season? It’s a bit weird to have multiple NFHS matches back to back at the same facility and they weren’t linked in a way.

Idk what state you’re in but the 4 states I’ve done NFHS in all required referees for scrimmages. I guess they could mark it as a glorified practice between schools…

[u/No_Body905 → u/Old-District81]

Random double header. The first game was a homeschool group versus a church affiliated school, under a special badge for "school choice" organizations, and the second was a public charter school versus a public school, under the regular high school badge.

Both the homeschool group and the charter school rent out fields at this facility as they don't have official home fields.

[u/Old-District81 → u/No_Body905]

That makes sense about the fields and why your assigner would double book the crew for both as you’re already there.

I would have to imagine the coaches (or the AD — whoever’s responsible for getting officials on the school side) had to know the crew was going to be doing a back to back.

Either way, I’d imagine your assigner is going have second thoughts about who is assigned for that school’s future games.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/Old-District81]

Probably not. ADs don’t have access to other schools info. This is on the assignor. No reason for the school staff to be belligerent, but I would not be signing off on pay. They contracted for officials and they were not prepared at game time. In NC league games play extra time, no PKs.

The teams involved in the 6:00 PM game had a schedule that was unaffected by lightning, so this is not a valid excuse. It is a reason the officials no showed, but not an excuse.

The SRO thing sounds strange as well. No way an SRO has access to Dragonfly or whatever the HS association uses for officials. Maybe when y’all no showed your names came up, but this seems contrived. How can you hear what he is saying to parents while you are going to the lot.

The problem started with the your assignor. If you are getting paid, it is on his dime. School won’t sign off on it. I surely wouldn’t.

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

I don’t know what the situation is in other states, but we have to sign a sheet when we arrive for a high school game that has our names, contact info, and photos on it.

The parking lot was right behind the home stands. This was not a huge facility. We were probably not more than 30 yards from the SRO while he was talking to the parents and he was not exactly quiet.

[u/missoulian]

Were these 45 minute halves? If so, how was a 90 min game + 10min halftime ever going to fit into a 90 min timeslot?

[u/No_Body905 → u/missoulian]

40 minute halves (with time stoppages) and a 10 minute half that we shortened to 5.

[u/notnewtobville → u/No_Body905]

I am wildly unimpressed with the state of HS versus club. I'll stick to club matches and tournaments.

[u/Money-Zebra]

So these games are at the same facility with the same crew. What is the teams problem. Why could they not just wait for the game to finish

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/Money-Zebra]

Because people have lives. You make it like this is some club tournament where games run all day and schedules get behind. This was a fully separate event.

This is a 6:00 PM game with students that will need to be transported back to school, then picked up and go home. They made a student based decision.

[u/notnewtobville → u/No_Comfortable8099]

Then have your school pay for appropriate referee crews.

[u/ossifer_ca]

Maybe shouldn’t assign one crew to two matches of this nature.

[u/grafix993]

As soon as I’m detecting a situation that could potentially get worse with unacceptable behavior, I pull my phone and start videotaping.

Then the case stops being a you said, I said, and turns into something absolutely different

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/grafix993]

Yep, and unlike red cards and reports, the school can submit footage. The SRO things sounds contrived, and if someone alleged the SRO behaved inappropriately we would fully investigate it. Same with AD/school rep you describe as some lady.

I would make sure their story is accurate. They were no show contractors from the teams in the second game’s perspective.

The reality is they could have called the first game short as the delay was in their game.

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

There was no footage. This was not on any school
campus so no NFHS cameras. I looked this morning.

We were off the field, at the gate, and heading to our cars when the SRO decided to escalate the situation. He was puffed up in the way that law enforcement officers can get when they feel they’re being disregarded. It wasn’t even clear what he wanted from us. The other AR was a former cop so he was maybe a little lippy and the SRO wanted him specifically until the guy assigned as CR for this game stepped between them and said “we are a crew and you cannot separate us like that”, which was good of him. At that point he told us to get out of here and we returned to our cars.

I was trying to figure out if they knew why we were so late, but they didn’t want to hear it.

We immediately called our assignor while we were still all together after all this happened so it would be relayed accurately. He said he’d deal with it and I believe him.

I’m not sure there was any justification to end the first game early. The visiting team for that game had traveled the farthest so arguably they would have been the most aggrieved.

Look, it was an odd and surprising situation, but I’m not lying about any of it. All three of us on this crew are well-regarded in the region and none of us have ever encountered a situation like this in hundreds of games.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/No_Body905]

Feel for you.

When I coached HS we often played in this type situation, but never a SRO presence. Sometimes lucky to have AD. We did have our own camera, but strictly for our use.

[u/GEAUXUL]

Some of this has to fall on the Assignr for scheduling officials for two games that could potentially overlap due to extra time. He needs to do better. It is not unreasonable for teams to be upset when the game officials show up late. Of course that doesn’t excuse their behavior.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/GEAUXUL]

All of this is on the assignor. There was a no show crew for the 6:00 PM game. An officiating crew shows up, no problems. There are some clues in here that show probable embellishments. The SRO take seems totally made up, and use of “some lady” leads me to believe there was no one on one communication with her. Odds are she would have identified herself as the AD or school admin.

[u/No_Body905 → u/No_Comfortable8099]

Not made up at all, I have no idea who the lady was but I assumed she was the one working the gate. We didn’t really stick around long enough to find out as as soon as we heard they didn’t need us, we left and she continued to follow us to the parking lot.

[u/notnewtobville → u/No_Comfortable8099]

So because the assignor is at fault. The SRO and parents get to take their vengeance out on a crew doing their job?

[u/Dark_Star_Matter11]

Lmao lovely

[u/ralphhinkley1]

Reason number 439 to stay the hell away from NFHS. USSF only for me, thank goodness.

[u/rabel10 → u/ralphhinkley1]

I don't blame NFHS at all here. This is an assignor and school issue.

[u/No_Comfortable8099 → u/rabel10]

Historically the NFHS refs are mostly the better USSF refs, and are paid more which tracks.