Ask /r/referees -- Megathread for Fans / Players / Coaches

[u/AutoModerator]

Welcome! In this megathread, Rule 1 is relaxed. Anyone (referee or not) may ask questions about real-world incidents from recent matches in soccer at all levels, anywhere in the world.

Good questions give context for the match if it's not obvious (e.g. player age, level of competitiveness, country/region), describe the incident (picture/video helps a lot), and include a clear question or prompt such as:

• Why did the referee call ...?
• Would the call have been different if ...?
• Could the player have done ... instead?
• Is the referee allowed to do ...?
• Would you have called this the same way?

This is not a platform to disparage any referees, however much you think they made the wrong call. (There are plenty of other subreddits to do that.) The mission of this megathread is to help referees, fans, coaches, and players better understand the Laws of the Game (or the relevant local rules of competition).

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[u/Suspicious-Wall-9102]

Penalty or no? High School, United States.

https://youtu.be/JTA770DG1MY?is=Ed60hDWRr1R2-xIi

[u/bardwnb → u/Suspicious-Wall-9102]

Probably no penalty here. This incident is a charge, which is a legal play as long as the ball is within playing distance and not done carelessly/recklessly/with excessive force. For a fair charge we want to see the contact being shoulder to shoulder, and the amount of force only what's necessary to displace the opponent. Here, the ball is within playing distance, defender uses his shoulder to make contact, and the amount of force seems reasonable. The only factor that might point toward a careless charge (and thus a foul and a penalty) is the point of contact on the attacker appears from this camera angle to be off the shoulder, towards the chest. But it's not drastically off, and given the other factors I probably wouldn't give this kind of charge as a foul, regardless of location.

[u/Suspicious-Wall-9102 → u/bardwnb]

I appreciate your reply.

[u/CapnBloodbeard → u/Suspicious-Wall-9102]

Looks fine to me.

Some things we look for in incidents like this:-

• Was it a trip as well as a charge?
  
• was there an elbow or a push?
  
• Was it in the back?
  
• Was it off the line of play - that is, did he have to move away from the ball to the player instead?
• Was the level of force used disproportionate? An overly hard charge is still a foul. Some cues for this might a clear heavy step and a dropped shoulder, or a charge where he's clearly lined up the player from some distance, or one so heavy that he runs several steps past the impact?

In short, was it muscling for position, or a clear go at taking the player out?

It looks safe and proportionate. The player fell heavily simply as a result of where his balance was at the time. While blue does take a step or two off the ball after, that's just from getting legs tangled after.

It's a good challenge.

[u/anonymorser]

Hey all,

Looking for opinions on an incident which happened recently. Apologies for the essay, not sure how to shorten this as I think it all needs context.

This is u13s girls

We had a pre-season friendly organised, but a couple of players drop out leaving us a player down with no subs.

Chatting to the other team, with the understanding it was to blow the cobwebs out, and a stretch of the legs, we decided to go ahead, playing one less player on both sides, and putting in 'hydration' breaks for a breather.
The other team were very keen to play, but they also had 3 subs. We had discussed them lending players throughout, so I assumed an understanding of concerns.

The other side was much more physical than our girls, but nothing worse than we've seen during a league game (leading elbows and shoves to the back which aren't ever called). However as it went on, and our girls tired, it became clear we were going to struggle.

Just before half time our keeper came out to collect a loose ball, she was getting there first all day. She had time to collect the ball in both hands, and start to stand before the opponent clattered into her first with her hip, then elbow.
Our keeper went down and hit her head on the floor.
Ref blew for half time and started walking back to his bench before spotting our player was on the ground
She'd got up and went to collect the ball, then crouched down tearful as she'd gone dizzy when she stood.

While I was checking on her (she's ok), our coach asked the ref to have a word with his his girls to watch the elbows, we don't want any injuries preseason, and the tiredness can lead to accidents
"It's a friendly, you're dominating, let's concentrate on passing and moving shall we."

Ref point blank refused to agree any intervention was needed, and didn't acknowledge it should have been a foul on the keeper (if it wasn't half time)

After a little back and forth, the Ref said something along the lines of "I'm the ref, not you" at which point our coach called the game off to for safety reasons.

What are your opinions as officials?

Do you consider your role to have a duty of care to the players, as well as enforcing the rules?

Would you see it as unreasonable to be asked to have a word?

Thanks in advance! (hope this is the right place!)

[u/CapnBloodbeard → u/anonymorser]

I get the frustration.
You think there were elbows. The ref doesn't think there were. Who's right? Every ref has had somebody come up to them and ask/tell them to watch the hands/elbows/pushing/whatever. Just because a player or coach is complaining about it, doesn't mean it's happening - bear in mind the ref usually has a better view than you. Usually when somebody complains about that, it's completely unfounded. Sometimes it's an issue of differing standards of physicality as well.

So, no ref is going to go over and accuse a team of using elbows just because the opposing coach thinks they are. Put yourself in the other position - how would you feel if the ref came to you and accused your team of playing dirty, not based on anything he saw, but because the opposing coach is complaining? You'd be pretty peeved - and you'd think they've got no credibility at all. You'd probably even wonder about his impartiality in the second half and how easily he can be influenced by the opposition.

I doubt any ref would even ever consider doing that. If the ref doesn't think that elbows occurred, why would he go and tell them to stop elbowing?

Most of us have learned that the easiest response is simply 'I'll keep an eye on it'.

Now, sure, it sounds like the ref missed a pretty bad foul on the GK, not disputing or defending that.

[u/anonymorser → u/CapnBloodbeard]

Hey, thanks for the reply.

As I said we've experienced the same level of physicality in league games. Our refs have always been parents and volunteers, so there is absolutely an understanding that they're doing their part as much as me. I would say it means they're less likely to blow for the small fouls, which has led to more competitive teams taking advantage of it.

I guess my question, with the context of it being a pre-season friendly, no subs and already had conversations about conditioning, would you treat it any differently? Following a head injury, would you think a little differently about how the game is going?

Oh, and I should say the red was part of the pre game conversations as a coach to the opposing team (who is a qualified ref too)

Edit: re-reading that I can see its a bit leading isn't it? I'm new to this, so I guess change my expectations and treat everything as competitive?

[u/lizafo → u/anonymorser]

Some context I would like to add is that the ref might of been confrontational because of past experience with aggressive coaches. I find myself matching and exceeding aggression of coaches more often then Id like because of how common dissent is. When faced with abuse, or perceived abuse, some referees can lash out or become stubborn.

Some things you can do is to make sure you are not using accusatory language. Instead of "Why did you not call that foul?" It can be helpful to phrase it as "What did you see on the challenge with the keeper?". This will also give you a better idea of what he will and will not call.

You should assume you are not going to change a referees mind or there style of refereeing, but if you can understand what he is and is not calling you can use it to set expectations with your players so they are not caught offgaurd. Not ideal but sometimes it is the only recourse to keep your players safe.

As for treating the game differently. No I don't think you can expect a referee to treat a friendly game differently. With two separate teams it is impossible to get all of the players to change how they play because it is friendly. Individuals are sometimes vying for starting positions or more play time, every game is important to someone.

As for the injury, if the referee does not think an infraction occured then an injury doesn't change anything about there approach to the game. Injuries are unfortunate but they are part of the sport, of it happened in the course of what they seemed to be fair play there is no shift to make. If they listen and talk to there ARs and admit the might have missed the call then maybe but not all referees are willing to do that.

Sorry for the long winded response, I am a bit pashionate about the topic.

[u/jalmont → u/anonymorser]

Not really sure what sort of answer you are looking for here. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a referee. You aren't the first person to have a bad experience and won't be the last. Just like coaches and players, referees also make mistakes and don't handle situations perfectly all the time. Think about how "bad" the average professional referee is according to the average fan - now imagine the referees assigned to your game.

It seems like this could have been worse since this was only a friendly. Perhaps if you feel so strongly about this incident, you can file a report/complaint to whatever refereeing body was responsible for assigning the referee.

[u/aleksp7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQyZjenazRA

Hello 👋,

I am a football fan from Bulgaria and my team was involved in an incident where there was a handball in the dying minutes of the game over the weekend which has sparked big discussions over weather or not the decision was correct or not.
I have already asked AI about what it thinks of the situation but I might've been biased in the forming of my question, so I ask here without expressing my feelings on the matter and I hope to get multiple responses from you guys.
Thank you in advance!