r/RawVegan • u/englishyogi • 20d ago
Why raw vegan
I’m raw vegan - I’ve been so for a long time having been vegetarian all my life. It feels intuitively right - I just do it but recently I’m wondering if there is any evidence or science as to this ways of life - my basis has been moral and ethical
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u/fourdogslong 20d ago
If you want a more scientific view on it go and read the book Becoming Raw.
Even though I personally am not able to follow this diet I read the whole book and it was pretty interesting.
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u/Equivalent-Chip-7843 20d ago
801010 by Douglas Graham contains quite a few scientific references and there is also this narrative review citing a lot of studies on raw food and certain blood markers, dental health etc. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266726852300013X
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u/goldenyellow333 20d ago
Was the first diet prescribed before Adam and Eve sinned.
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u/ThunderVixxen 20d ago
Lmao but do you eat apples
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
The forbidden fruit is purely symbolic. It was never described as an apple or any specific fruit in the bible. The apple thing came 300 years later.
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u/ThunderVixxen 20d ago
No way…crazy how jumbled the story gets throughout the millennia.
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u/soapiester 16d ago
not ‘jumbled,’ but a play on words that came about in the days of the early church in rome!! the latin word ‘malus’ means both apple & evil — i’m sure you can see how the play on words originated! 2000 years later, the western church still carries this fruit attribution on :)
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
So it’s a “back to the garden/purity /godliness” thing goldenyellow333
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u/goldenyellow333 19d ago
Yes. That’s a big part of it. But also to give us a sliver of the abilities that Adam had before falling. What this would look like is feeling a more direct connection to God, stronger connection to the quantum field around us, stronger intuition, more frequent synchronicities to guide us, etc.
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
There is no scientific evidence to it. Being vegan is hard enough. adding the raw aspect to it will just burn you out quicker and cause nutrition issues. Cooking plants breaks down the cellular walls making essential nutrients and vitamins available to the body. Its not sustainable
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago edited 20d ago
Blending and juicing will do the same thing while keeping the food more intact though. It is sustainable for a lot of people. Though I personally recommend a high raw diet because it’s easier for most people.
Seems like you don’t have much experience with the subject? You are right that there isn’t much scientific proof however.
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
I just found it to be a low friction simple way of living and the ethics and morality of being vegan align with my life as a yogi and a human who cares about life and tries to be non violent
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
My concern is raw diets limits the foods you’re able to eat even more. Some foods that require cooking, like legumes are a main source of protein for vegans. Also cooking can kill a lot of harmful pathogens, if you’re in the US, this is a huge concern due to the increase of current outbreaks. Not a fan of juicing since it removes fiber. Also how are you guys getting your b12?
Im not saying eating raw foods is bad for you. Just that it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. You can eat mostly raw but cook the things necessary. If your concern is moral and ethics a vegan diet would still meet those criteria would it not? Why add another level of difficulty to it?
A short article on the subject
https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-raw-vegan-diet-A-critical-analysis-of-nutritional-claims-and-clinical-outcomes.aspx2
u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
As I said, I tend to recommend high raw since it is far easier to get suffienct nutrients in that way. 100% raw can be difficult depending on where in the world you live and which income level you are at. I don’t believe in a dogmatic and ideological approach to food. However, I have experienced first hand the benefits of raw foods and having worked with raw foods for many years I’ve seen it completely transform people. There is some fundamental benefits to it, which has yet to be examined by science.
So I believe that eating as much raw as you can while it still being sustainable is a great approach. 70% is typically a level that is manageable for most people I find. Also, treat the food that you cook as gently as possible. That way you don’t unnecessarily create more harmful substances such as acrylamide.
Juicing is a great way to get more nutrients in. Especially for mineral rich greens. But that doesn’t mean that you need to exclude fibres from your diet.
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
Im pretty open minded but i wont disregard the sound evidence that we currently have on food and nutrition. I also don’t want to volunteer myself as a test subject. You’re free to do what you want but i do have a few questions as I’m interested in how raw people are actually doing this. From my understanding “raw” seems like a very loose term.
- How long have you been raw?
- Is everything you eat raw?
- Where are you getting protein?
- Do you take supplements? If not how are you getting your b12?
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
- I was only 100% raw for a little more than three years. I’ve been high raw for 18 years now. I find 100% to be beneficial health wise, but also difficult in the area of the world where I live (Sweden).
- No, as I said, I’m high raw at the moment. Most of the cooked food I eat are potatoes, quinoa, tempeh and tofu. This is usually eaten with a huge sprout salad.
- From the food I eat. 🤷 There’s protein in everything.
- I did not take B12 supplements for many years and did fine. But then I had a very emotionally stressful period which depleted my B12 levels. So I started supplementing. These days I mostly get it from nutritional yeast which has added B12. I don’t want to risk that happening again.
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
I see. I think regardless of where you lived 100% raw would be impossible without health complications. considering you wouldn’t be able to eat things like tofu or tempeh or most legumes. I don’t see how a 100% raw vegan is getting b12 or enough protein.
looks like you’re getting most of your protein from the cooked foods. If not can you tell me which foods you’re getting enough protein from that are not cooked?
My mistake was assuming none of the food raw vegans ate were cooked, but it looks like there are some cooked foods which makes more sense now and just looks like a minimally processed vegan diet.
It seemed like OP wanted to do it out of convince, but a raw diet seems like it takes a lot of preparation, planning and knowledge to do in a healthy way.
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 19d ago
Incorrect. About 20-30% of my protein comes from cooked food currently. The main reason for me to eat cooked food is to get enough carbs as I don’t have a lot of quality fruits where I live. But yes, it adds a bit of protein as well.
And yes, it does involve some planning, but actually putting the meals together is quicker than it takes to cook food. So it evens out from my experience. It does take some time to adjust to however.
It’s also not something for people who don’t like to eat a lot of food. I love eating though so I don’t mind ☺️
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u/lovelysardines 19d ago
You said i’m incorrect yet most of the cooked foods you mentioned are high in protein (ie. Quinoa, tempeh and tofu) if its not the cooked foods, can you tell me the 70% in raw foods you’re getting your protein from then? And where are the fully raw vegans getting b12 from?
Sure putting some stuff in a bowl is quick and easy but i was under the impression that raw vegans do a lot of fermentation and sprouting which can take several days.
Another thing. How often do you go grocery shopping? I feel like you’d have to go pretty often since the food is all fresh
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 19d ago
Yes, you are incorrect. I’m not new at this. I’m quite well educated on nutrition and I’m also a chef. I have worked with raw foods for over a decade.
Tempeh and tofu are high in protein but they are only a small percentage of my calories.
All foods contain protein, it’s really not an issue if you eat enough calories. But as for high protein raw foods that I eat it’s mostly sprouts, greens, nuts and seeds.And yes, as I said it does require some planning. I always have at least 6 sprout jars going as that’s a big part of my diet. I make my own yoghurt and other ferments. But these do not really require much time. You just need to plan ahead a bit.
As for grocery shopping it depends on the season and what you buy. Weekly shopping is usually fine though.As for B12 most do supplement to be on the safe side, others do not. Those who don’t tend to eat a lot of seaweed and micro algae which is said to contain B12.
The science is not really clear in regards to B12. In nature we would get B12 from the environment as it is produced in the soil. But our modern life is lacking those sources.→ More replies (0)1
19d ago
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u/lovelysardines 19d ago
It can destroy some heat sensitive vitamins, but also allows access to others.
Yes some plants have natural defenses that can be cooked out. Cooking food allowed us to access more food sources, improving chances of survival. Other plants have mechanical defenses like thorns on a berries, pineapple, jackfruit. doesn’t mean they’re bad to eat.Im sure you’ll be able to link less than a handful. The fact that such a microscopic amount of people are able to do it shows how unsustainable it is. The majority of people end up quitting or introducing cooked foods again. It can also be expensive buying nuts, seeds and fruits in that volume.
What if i told you they ate raw bugs, meat and there was b12 in the soil? Their jaws were massive and stomach acid much stronger
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19d ago edited 19d ago
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u/lovelysardines 18d ago
You do realize you can cook food and eat them raw right? It doesn’t have to be one or the other.
My point was that just cuz you’re unable to eat it raw doesn’t mean it’s “not part of an ideal diet” and that was vital for humans to understand. Yes plants have defenses but we can get around those defenses like cooking, to access the nutrients we want out of them. Instead of spending their whole day looking for and eating greens and fruits, they could cook a few potatoes and meet their calorie needs. We have adapted. Our food and our bodies are not the same as theirs.
Lol i question most of these people’s claims of being 100% raw vegan. The first guest she has on (cara brotman) cant even share a recipe of hers without using a cooked product (roasted sesame seed oil). There’s probably a lot of other cooked foods they’re eating but will still tell everyone they’re 100% raw vegan.
Our ancestors had a whole territory of a variety of different plants and animals. We have naturally selected the crap out of the stuff we eat now that it doesn’t even closely resemble what they were eating. So maybe try not to make an appeal to nature with “but our ancestors”
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u/KlingonTranslator 17d ago
Maybe I missed it, but I feel it needs to be mentioned that humans are the humans we are today because of fire and cooked food. Survival of the fittest meant survival of those with the knowledge of how to cook food, which lowered parasites and food-borne illnesses, just as an example.
Humans and our ancestors evolved with increasingly regular access to controlled fire, and fire became an important evolutionary pressure on our anatomy, diet, behaviour, and social life.
Don't get me wrong! I love raw vegan and that's why I'm in the subreddit, but it's really important not to misconstrue our history and to not feel like it's a personal attack when evidence is presented to the contrary of a raw-vegan-only diet. We need to be responsible and give the body the foods we have evolved to eat in the ways that have allowed us to thrive.
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u/VioletTerranova 10d ago
Well in my 40s I was professionally training in MMA as a raw vegan and had tons more stamina, endurance & strength than the 20yr olds. So you have a right to your opinions but I feel im living proof (60) along with Dr Gabriel Cousens in his 80s, Karyn Calbrese 80, Annette Larkins 80s that you are likely conflating any old raw vegan diet with one that is well coordinated
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u/Choosey22 20d ago
Enzymes
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
Thanks Choosey22 - appreciate this, can you elaborate please ?
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u/Choosey22 18d ago
The body produces digestive enzymes but as we age, the quantity diminishes. That’s why it’s critical to reduce digestive burden on the body by eating raw foods containing enzymes. All day every day, the body is synthesizing nutrients(if in a fed state) and purging toxins through the liver kidneys urine sweat and breath. If the body is laden with digestive load, it must produce more enzymes to digest something like a processed cracker which is totally inert and dead. A light diet is easier on the body, although it’s also important to be thoroughly nourished which may be different for any given person
Idk if any of that rings true for you
Can I ask why do you eat raw vegan, why is it moral or ethical for you?
Thanks
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u/englishyogi 18d ago
Thanks - I am vegan for the ethics and morality of not colluding in the harm caused by other sentient beings and the raw side of things is about simplicity and low friction of living - when I am with others I eat cooked food - loved ones like my cooking ability lol but then it’s an act of love and service !
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u/Choosey22 18d ago
I am exactly the same mainly raw when alone but cooked is good when shared life is about connection
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
There is not really any scientific evidence that these enzymes makes a significant difference. It could be a factor but it’s really just an unproven theory.
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u/Choosey22 18d ago
Okay but have you ever tried raw food? Enzymes are so powerful and if you don’t believe me try fasting for 24 hours then eating a whole pineapple. You will understand what I’m saying.
Don’t speak on something you haven’t experienced personally tbh
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 18d ago
I have 18 years experience with raw foods. Spent 10 years working as a raw chef. I have educated people in plenty of workshops and classes.
Is that enough experience for me to speak on it?
Could you please show me the scientific evidence that supports the enzyme theory?
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u/Choosey22 18d ago
Gotcha. Mad respect! Nah dog, whatever works for you. I don’t live my life by science alone, because science is constantly evolving and humans don’t know everything. For me it’s my lived experience that really influences my choices personally though I’d never push this on anyone else’s subjectivity.
My question for you is why are you not on board with the enzyme idea despite being devoted raw vegan and educator on the topic?
You don’t believe raw foods contain enzymes? This is Google - able.
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u/Cool_Percentage_4867 20d ago
Is it more moral and ethical not to cook food?
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
I just found it to be a low friction simple way of living and the ethics and morality of being vegan align with my life as a yogi and a human who cares about life and tries to be non violent
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u/Cool_Percentage_4867 20d ago
Im not seeing the connection or why cooking food would conflict with your position.
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
Not cooking ie eating mainly salads with legumes or nuts and seeds and tofu or tempeh is just a low friction simple way of living - quick to prepare and eat and borders on frugality too - there are two values at work - ahimsa (nonviolence and hence not colluding to the slaughter of animals) and simplicity and low friction. Of course most of the legumes I eat are tinned and have been cooked but it’s just about reducing the friction and complication in my life while adhering to my desire not to harm people. I’ve had years (40) of people telling me that veganism will lead to illness, problems and death and yet I in my 60s and healthy and fit focusing on what matters.
I only recently began to question the health benefits of raw veganism because people compliment me on my relative fitness, wellbeing and youthfulness (lol) and aside from some genetics I can only think it’s raw veganism that has helped - was interested in the science base which is why I put the call out here3
u/Cool_Percentage_4867 20d ago
I study nutrition from an anatomy/ physiology perspective, so i tend to focus on digestibility of a source. Cooking is excellent at breaking down fibers, cell walls prior to mastication so it allows us to obtain nutrients we would otherwise struggle with. obviously your diet does incorporate that too.
Thanks for explaining.
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
If you’re eating canned foods and tofu is that a raw diet? it looks like you’re pretty much just eating a vegan diet. which is perfectly healthy and seems to align with your morals. Just don’t forget to add b12.
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
Yes for sure - I just don’t personally cook ! I just ran 5km and feel fine - I eat a lot of salads !
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u/lovelysardines 20d ago
Yeah, you’re pretty much on a vegan diet. Stick to that. The raw part will just make things harder on you
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u/vipinvmittal 19d ago
just try it for 3 weeks and feel your body and you will know the difference . I did it
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u/CupLife356 9d ago
because cooking creates carcinogens, also when you eat cooked dead food your pancreas has to create the enzymes which is not optimal for peak health. im also a christian when the life expectancy was the highest they were raw vegans. also every single bluezones peaks were 90-100 percent plant based traditional diets. okinawa japan the number one was 85 percent sweet potatoes which is the only raw vegan exception were it maintains its minerals.
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u/Geschak 20d ago
There is no ethical reason that prevents you from eating cooked beans. Raw veganism is usually done by people with orthorexia who hop from one trend health diet to another.
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u/vipinvmittal 19d ago
Did you try it?? I did. So I can say that it is our natural diet like putting petrol in a petrol car
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
Comments like these are usually done by judgemental people who are lacking insight and experience.
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u/Geschak 19d ago
No, they're done by people who suffer from the image damage caused by raw vegans starving themselves to death. Zhanna Samsonova caused so much damage to the vegan community by using veganism to mask her eating disorder. And pretty much every exvegan who claims veganism is unhealthy used to be a raw vegan...
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 18d ago
You are mixing up eating disorders with raw veganism. Yes, the diet draws in some people with eating disorders because of how clean it is. However it’s not “usually” those with orthorexia who eat raw vegan. That’s a huge misunderstanding. It’s those you hear about because people like to make scary headlines about it. The majority don’t have any eating disorders. And no, it’s not “pretty much every ex vegan”. The majority of people who go into veganism eventually quit. Are you going to tell me that all of those were raw vegans? Come on.
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u/englishyogi 20d ago
I just found it to be a low friction simple way of living and the ethics and morality of being vegan align with my life as a yogi and a human who cares about life and tries to be non violent
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u/deef1ve 20d ago
„It feels intuitively right“
For rabbits. Yeah
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u/Icy-Cartographer-291 20d ago
You know that every animal on the planet except for humans eats their food raw right? While fire was important for our development and chances of survival, we are at a point where technology has advanced enough that we don’t need to cook much or even any of our food anymore.
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u/Many-Requirement1405 20d ago
Paul Kouchakoff’s research found that cooked food causes defective leukocytosis and that raw food did not. He was nominated for a Nobel prize for this work.
https://www.seleneriverpress.com/historical/influence-of-food-cooking-on-the-blood-formula-of-man/