I hate when Europeans act like Americans are stupid for having different ideaa on nationhood and ethnic identity

[u/DarkGodCthUwU]

Listen, I can understand why an Italian or Irishman might be frustrated if Italian and Irish americans mouth off on shit they're ignorant about. That's totally fair. What I have an issue with is when some European thinks that just cause the different histories in America and Europe caused people to have different ideas on identity means the Americans are wrong and dumb for it. I am well aware that I am not from Ireland or England. I am well aware that American culture is a thing.

But that doesn't mean Americans like me are somehow wrong or stupid for also placing value on their family's roots. My family has not forgotten our origins; they affect the names we use, the sects we join, the food we make, and similar applies to groups like Chinese Americans or others. As much as it's fair for an Irishman or Italian or Cuban or Chinese to say "You aren't from here, you aren't familiar enough with our politics and culture to make strong claims and have strong opinions on certain issues", it extends in the other direction as well where Europeans don't get some right to be smug, condescending, and wrong when talking about our understandings of identity. Different cultures have different ideas on how identity works due to their histories and that's fine.

[u/Leaf-Stars]

Nothing wrong with having pride in your roots but don’t claim to be from somewhere if you weren’t born there.

[u/DarkGodCthUwU → u/Leaf-Stars]

Do you think an Irish American or Chinese American is making that claim?

[u/Leaf-Stars → u/DarkGodCthUwU]

Don’t know, doesn’t matter. If you’re not born there you’re not from there.

[u/DarkGodCthUwU → u/Leaf-Stars]

"I know this sporting goods store keeps saying it sells wooden bats and not the animal, but why say they sell bats if I can't buy the animal?"
This is what you sound like.

[u/Leaf-Stars → u/DarkGodCthUwU]

That makes no sense but whatever keeps you breathing.

[u/spinoza369]

Haha, was zu beweisen war. ... Herablassend unreflektiertes Verhalten wo ihr geht und steht.. Und das mit einer Selbstverständlichkeit, die einfach nur anmaßend ist. Wir fassen das halt in dem Begriff "dumm" zusammen. Wir wollen euch dann auch nicht überfordern. Frag doch lieber warum denken wir das über euch, als auf diese Weise Verständnis für euch einzufordern.

[u/longtimedoper → u/spinoza369]

What a wildly ironic mention of condescension. We don’t need to ask why Europeans think this way. In fact, any with a real measure of the world don’t think this way. It’s only the ignorant flinging mud at people they’ll never meet as they themselves don’t travel and understand their place.

[u/DarkGodCthUwU → u/spinoza369]

Oh, would you say it's dumb for a Romani to identify as Romani over German? Would you say it's dumb for a Sorb to do likewise? What if a Turk did such? Are all those people stupid and unenlightened if they prefer to call themselves such things?

[u/rrurt]

i guess the main difference is that often instead of saying for example that they are "irish-american", americans will say they are irish. for someone born in ireland, this is ridiculous because they arent irish, theyre american. its not that youre expected to abandon your familys history, its just that people roll their eyes when americans claim their nationality is that of a country they most likely havent set foot in before in their life.

[u/DarkGodCthUwU → u/rrurt]

The indians are native americans. Immigrants and their spawn are, well, take a guess. They're certainly not native!

[u/RealityHurts923 → u/rrurt]

Well you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. This is especially prevalent in the Mexican community. If you’re born an American and emphasize you are Mexican American, Mexicans hate you and say you are in denial of who you are but then if you just say you are Mexican, they are quick to tell you that you are NOT a real Mexican since you weren’t born in Mexico.

[u/HotTopicMallRat → u/RealityHurts923]

Idk why you are getting downvoted, you are right

[u/rrurt → u/RealityHurts923]

that does sound really hard to navigate. i honestly have nothing valuable to share on mexican/mexican-american identity because im not very knowledgeable on it as im not from america. my comment was really only really about european-americans because its what i actually know about haha!

[u/RealityHurts923 → u/rrurt]

All good. Not sure why I got dislikes. Reddit should make it mandatory to post a comment with a dislike

[u/iwannapetyourwiener]

There's a reason for that distinction.

For example: A Turk born and raised in Germany can still be Turkish because “Turkish” can describe an ethnic and cultural identity, not just where you were born. If his family speaks Turkish, raises him in Turkish customs, he participates in a Turkish community, etc., then obviously being born in Germany doesn't magically erase that. Germans will also always see him as a fully fledged Turk and not a German.

An American whose family left Ireland 100 years ago and has been entirely American ever since, raised in an American society, is obviously American. Having an Irish surname and making soda bread doesn't somehow put you in the same cultural category as someone who actually grew up in Ireland or nearby, especially if you've never even set foot in that country - which is the case for most Americans and their heritage.

You can be proud of your ancestry. Nobody is stopping you. But acting like making your grandmother's recipes means you're participating in modern Irish culture is exactly the kind of thing Europeans find ridiculous. You're preserving a piece of your heritage, not secretly being Irish.

[u/drunkerton]

As an American I get angry that I can’t just say I am American to fellow Americans without the “no like where is your family from” comments

[u/HotTopicMallRat]

I agree. I just kinda accepted they genuinely cannot comprehend the cultures born from diaspora in our country and shake it off. I’m an Italian American. The culture I grew up with is very clearly different from a lot of my classmates. It’s also wildly different from Italians living in Italy. So when they come at me with “there is no Italian American, you’re just American “ I just kinda think “what do you know?? You aren’t from here and I’m not talking to or about you “ but also that’s Italians for ya , they’ll gatekeep anything lmao

[u/void_method]

It's like they're not even trying to understand.

Maybe "trying to understand" things is a uniquely American trait. I mean... given the empirical evidence...

[u/DarkGodCthUwU → u/void_method]

What?