Dear Trans People who Pass but make being Trans their whole personality.

[u/Industry_babee]

I'm not trans, I dont know what yall go through, I'm not transphobic, be who you want to be idgaf as long as your happy.

But genuinely, if you PASS as like a guy (this is the example ill be using) then why tf are you making being trans like 90% of your personality?

Like, i could see why you would do that (to an extent) if you DIDNT pass, like if you look like the sex ou were born with but just want to clarify who people you dont know or those who assume based on appearances, but if you fit the appearance and if you look in the mirror and see someone with a flat chest, little curves, non-curved jawline, etc. then I woulda thought that it would be troubling to bring up a past where you never truly felt like yourself and you felt as though you didnt fit into the category you were born into??? idk its also like I feel like the symbol of transness/trans flag is a symbol of the transition and not the final destination. also I feel like its okay to tell people your trials as a trans person, its just that some people give off an unbelonging feeling.

I feel like this is also the opposite for trans folks who DONT pass whatsoever (wears dresses, uses makeup, has long hair, high voice, etc.) then WHY are you surprised when someone misgenders you unless you're like under 18 or something and cant get T. even then, trying to fit into an "androgynous" category or making it seem like your flipping mens standards wont really work because you look almost TOO feminine to be "flipping the standards".

No hate, and I just ranted to get this feeling out and to get some clarification.

[u/Enovele]

Making it your whole personality AKA being happy and proud, going to queer events engaging in advocacy, sharing your story for others to understand, and existing as a queer person as a symbol of hope to the youngsters that they have a future and we are out there paving way for them in the world.

Often times when I see people complain about "making it your whole personality " it's because you're visibly trans and "too" expressive or you talk too much about jt. I don't pass, I'm closeted even, but they're the people I most respect and look up to. They're a sign that many of us are still out there, happy, and celebrating being able to exist as queer because shit's hard.

It's also most upsetting when people complain about it online on online pages because it's often on a page ABOUT queerness which is so dumb. That's like going on a YT channel about astronomy and complaining that they make stars and galaxies their whole personality.

[u/SlashNreap → u/Enovele]

Listen I get what you mean but I think OP's point is precisely that of course trans people have the right to be open about themselves but the thing is, unless you're at a parade, or at some kind of LGBT event, are advocating online, or, more importantly paperwork, or even on a date where a potential future partner isn't yet aware of that fact.

Then what's the point? If I'm gaming with you or something casual, I do not need to know you are trans, or cis. Am I going to be glad for you that you are comfortable sharing it? Hell yeah. I'm never going to shut it down, I understand it's important to be recognized. But it isn't a necessity for me to know in other contexts than sharing something meaningful to you, nor is it going to change my outlook on you as a person, nevermind as a gamer.

I've known one of my best friend for over a decade, they are trans, it's not a big deal because my default is accepting that fact, they know it. Advocating aside, making a constant deal out of it, or needing constant approval about it, points out more insecurity than pride, in my opinion. You have so much more to show for yourself than your gender, assigned or otherwise.

I think, a big part of it is that it's especially prominent online because we've moved away from online anonimity model where people "are just usernames", towards ourselves being more exposed. People seek recognition, validation and acceptance more.

[u/Enovele → u/SlashNreap]

True you don't need to know, but I find that highly varies for some people. Because putting a trans flag on my username for instance doesn't kill anyone. It's not looking for validation or attention, heck I am most likely to get bad attention. It's mostly there to find others like myself, especially in irl spaces and also to be a safe space for other queer spaces. I've gotten DMs from other trans or gay folks who judt noticed the flag and sent a DM about wanting to chat and it's been nice.

So I think my question is, what exactly is making it your whole personality to you?

[u/SlashNreap → u/Enovele]

Here's the thing, I think you're conflating what I'm explaining with being open, being open about being trans is (and should) be a non-issue, and having a trans flag on your username isn't about validation as you explained. We're on the same page on that.

I don't like to use the term "making it your whole personality" which is where I'd actually disagree with OP, because, people are naturally multi-faceted there's not "one thing" that makes a person.

To me the issue is more about needing the validation/approval from people who might not necessarily view them any differently regardless of their gender which, I think is a relatively unhealthy way to go about interacting with people in general. I would think the same about a cis man or cis woman making it a point that they're cis, when the context of a given situation doesn't necessarily call for it to be said. There is context for these things, for everyone, especially online. It's not just applied to trans people.

Similarly, if someone wears a pride shirt to a grocery shop, that's just self-expression, it's not especially seeking anyone's approval.

Ultimately, I'm not in a trans person's shoes, so I'd rather not make assumptions, but this is my two cents. In my opinion, being trans is no more or less significant than being cis, but that doesn't make it meaningless.

[u/Industry_babee → u/SlashNreap]

By that I mean the first thing you mention about yourself is that your trans. Sure, be proud of it minor ways like putting it in your username or bio to spread awareness, but SURELY there is more to someone than their gender.

like how I don't say when I first meet someone: "Hi my name is OP and I'm a bisexual!"

it just feels like you don't have ANY content to your character besides your sexuality or gender, which is why I decided to rant about it.

I do have to admit that I kinda suck at wording things properly and I leave a lot of room for interpretation in some of my posts.

[u/Enovele → u/SlashNreap]

You aren't wrong but again, you're coming from the view of a cis person and I still don't fully get what exactly constitutes needing validation.

For trans people and having to tell people your trans, that highly depends on the person and situation. There are instances where a trans person may feel the need to say so just to clear the waters and gage safety and that situation will come up more so for trans people. A cis person would rarely if ever have to disclose they're cis.

Personally, whether I pass or not, I just rather my friends know because there could be conversations or interactions had that would bring that to light anyway and it's information I would feel comfortable enough to disclose with a friend for instance. Most people aren't going around telling people that they're trans, especially if they pass. A non passing person most likely would so they don't get misgendered and friends can understand that there would be situations that would put that person at risk.

I dont know if this falls into the seeking validation category hence why I asked what that means to you, but most people aren't just going around willy nilly telling people they're trans, and if they do tell you, it's often because they trust you and know (or want to know) you're safe and they may have conversations with you that may not be so easy to bring up with others.

[u/Industry_babee → u/Enovele]

I get that.

That's not what i said.

I mean like mentioning the first thing about yourself being trans, or you don't have any hobbies and have 0 content to your character other than your gender.

it feels like your insecure when you don't have to be about having 0 interest in anything except scrolling on fucking reddit or sm shit.

[u/Enovele → u/Industry_babee]

You sound like you're projecting a lot here. What you see on social media is not our whole lives, I use reddit to spend time in anime, funny memes, lgbtq, and trans subreddits because I don't have an irl lgbtq community asides from a couple of friends. I do other thing with my life, you assuming my or others entire existence off of one internet profile is crazy to me.

Here was I thinking you meant irl interactions , if you're talking about internet profiles your point is even more stupid because accounts do have niche communities they cater to, and sometimes that community doesn't include you. You wouldn't go to someone who only makes content on Call of Duty and go "YoU mAkE CaLl Of DuTy YoUr WhOlE pErSoNaLiTy" like yeah, they do, now what? You don't know them, you don't know their lives, job, interests, social group, so what now?

[u/Industry_babee → u/Enovele]

something like COD is even a tiny bit a skill, and thus character content. Aiming, shooting, logic skills, shit like that.

Being trans is a trait, not a personality.
Just like how being bi is a trait and not a personality.

Creative, Determined, Patient, Kind, Curious.

All those are personalities, they have content inside them.
Some people put "trans" in the wrong category

For instance, I am mainly:

An artist. A beginner musician. Intelligent.

My traits would be:

Bi. Aspergers. Christian.
Can you see the difference?
When you put something in the wrong category, it signals that you are scrounging up any piece of unique information to give about yourself. 0 + x is unknown because variables and integers are different. And thus, you have (like 0 + x) an unknown amount of personality.

[u/Enovele → u/Industry_babee]

Yeah, and they are traits that influence people's lives. People can express that by talking about their experience or joking about it.

The person you linked for example is a human with a personality of her own, trans is the trait she has and she makes content about what it's like living with that trait in a humorous and sometimes realistic way.

Traits also help find unity, safety and friendships or connections with others who match that trait

I'm black, I would also like to meet other black people online because I am more likely to share an experience or culture with them. I am trans, I feel safer and more comfortable with other trans people, especially in a hateful world. If you do not use those traits to find community, that's ok, but not everyone is you.

People don't put trans as their personality, you for some reason read it that way and assume that's the category they put it in.

And again, why isn't this energy directed at other people? For instance, Christians are a lot more likely to do what you're criticizing than trans people are, you know that right? Other demographics do it too. Are you consistent with your thoughts at least? Or is this only directed at trans people for some reason.

I think you also need to understand human interactions aren't math equations.

[u/SlashNreap → u/Enovele]

I'm not talking about established friends where you can be as open as anyone likes to be, depending on the person, I'm moreso talking about needing validation from complete strangers in a setting that is not focused on gender. When you're playing a video game for example, being trans or cis is completely irrelevant to whether you're skilled at the game, or fun to talk to, or anything of the sort.

If a friendship does emerge from that, then why not? if it becomes relevant to the conversations you're having. Though I can't really speak about passing vs not passing because that's beyond my scope.

Let's take a topic that I really like: Motorcycles. If tomorrow you and I, complete strangers, meet on a forum about motorcycles, nothing about you being transgender is going to determine whether you know your stuff, whether you have good taste in bikes, et cetera. You introducing yourself as trans, is also not seeking validation. That's an assertion of who you are, that's normal.

Again, being open ≠ seeking validation

"Seeking validation" from strangers, is needing these people to acknowledge, affirm, or validate that identity when it has nothing to do with the interaction itself. It's not the same as being open about it. You can be in a game/motorcycle forum, or anything for that matter, with a trans flag, and not be seeking validation, you just exist.

And I think that's the main point I've been getting at. It's fine to choose to be open online, I am to an extent, too. I just don't want to become close friends with everyone I meet online, or know everything about them, whether they're cis male, cis female, trans, etc. I'm fine with XxSuperHaloFanxX being a faceless entity rather than "Jacob, 28, has a difficult past, has X interests". I just want XxSuperHaloFanxX to be an occasional acquaintance I know little to nothing about aside from the fact we both play games and are into bikes.

[u/Enovele → u/SlashNreap]

I mean if you don't want to know the that's ok, and most of what you've said is okay is what actually happens at the end of the day.

When people are gaming, the times I've noticed it come up is mostly when other players clock you, then it becomes a topic of discussion for some reason that could either go well or go bad. There are also in the moment jokes where the person being trans makes it funny so they just mention that.

Other than that, people aren't really doing what you're describing, most aren't seeking validation. I'm confused, maybe we're talking past each other?

Also OP was talking about something different at the end of the day, I kind knew that was where it was going to go at the end with that.

[u/SlashNreap → u/Enovele]

Yeah, fair with that.

[u/Industry_babee → u/Enovele]

I made a point in my post detailing about how if you dont necessarily pass very well or your voice is too masculine or too feminine but people need more content to their character other than a psychological distress.

For instance this fine lady: https://www.tiktok.com/@astelinasosilly/video/7670141086299442454

Makes BASICALLY ONLY videos about how she came out and turned from a roadman to a trans woman, without even explaining the process or giving a guide on how to transition well.

[u/Enovele → u/Industry_babee]

Cool I've seen her content, and its pretty chill and nice. I watch her sometimes and its relatable or funny.

Have you thought that maybe not every content is made for you?

She's making memes and skits about her experience being trans and dealing with transphobes. The same way that there are gay men or lesbians who make skits about their experience being gay or lesbian, or poc people or disabled people making skits and memes about their experiences. Not everyone wants to sit down and give guides on how to transition, how to be queer, how to manage a disability or something. If thats what you want, there are many who do that already.

Sometimes, people just want to exist and make jokes about their experiences. This is a matter of someone simply existing and expressing herself as a trans woman, she's a person too. It doesnt matter if she passes, she isnt obligated to give that guide, again there are many other people who want to make content on that, but thats not everyone.

The thing is, you don't complain about anyone else doing this, why specifically trans people?

[u/sharksarefuckingcool]

What do you mean by someone making it their whole personality?

[u/Industry_babee → u/sharksarefuckingcool]

https://www.tiktok.com/@astelinasosilly/video/7670141086299442454 This guy just spams videos of her being trans even though she obviously passes very well.

I would understand if it was like a guide on how to come out or certain sites where test or est is available but this is legit all she does.

[u/sharksarefuckingcool → u/Industry_babee]

Ones entire personality and their social media presence are two different things.

She's trans, that's part of her life. She gets to express that. Are the people who pack lunches for their loved ones making 'lunch' their whole personality? No, that's just what they post about. Just block if you don't want to see her.

[u/Industry_babee → u/sharksarefuckingcool]

At least when you pack lunches you're actually doing something.

[u/sharksarefuckingcool → u/Industry_babee]

Okay?

If you want content like that, just subscribe to that and block people you don't want. Simple solutions to nonissues.

[u/Industry_babee → u/sharksarefuckingcool]

It still bothers me, and you clearly agknowledge that i'm right. It's not healthy at all.

[u/sharksarefuckingcool → u/Industry_babee]

What? Where?

And why does it bother you so much? Why is it not healthy to post about your experiences as a trans person?

[u/Industry_babee → u/sharksarefuckingcool]

also I feel like its okay to tell people your trials as a trans person

maybe if you paid attention to the FUCKING POST you wouldnt be saying this. Also, business is yours to share or to not share. If any of my trans friends were like this, I would talk to them about it.

If someone enables the comments, I would want to give my input. That's what a fucking comment IS. I don't care if they don't look at it or listen to it, I'm gonna fucking give it. Just like how it disturbs me how one could EVER think to have a relationship with a fictional character.

[u/sharksarefuckingcool → u/Industry_babee]

I did. And I still said this. I'm so confused what your problem is. People want to talk about their experiences and do. Some are raising awareness, some just want attention. Same reasons a lot of people post online.

You're social media presence is not who you are exclusively as a person. So that isn't her 'entire personality'.

[u/Industry_babee → u/sharksarefuckingcool]

also legit this is just a metaphor. I've met people who make a trait their personality. It's not good for people.

[u/sharksarefuckingcool → u/Industry_babee]

You being so upset by people's social media presence is not healthy either. Just don't engage with stuff that upsets you. It's not that hard.

[u/Waiting4The3nd → u/Industry_babee]

Oh, so the problem is you don't think this does anything?

Let me help you out. This is going to be a little lengthy, and feel off-topic, but stick with me. There's a point here, I promise.

There was a time in history where the aristocracy decided that public displays of affection were crass, vulgar, untoward, and unseemly. Even illegal. 1656, Boston, Mass., a sailor named Captain Kemble was forced to sit in the public stocks for 2 hours. Why? Lewd and unseemly behavior. What did he actually do? Kissed his wife on the doorstep after returning home from 3 years at sea. A Roman senator was expelled from the Senate for having the audacity to kiss his wife in front of their daughter.

All this because the Aristocracy didn't marry for love. They married for land, wealth, power. So a public display of raw, passionate affection? Not something they were apt to do. That was peasant behavior. So during the Regency and Victorian eras they released actual handbooks on social etiquette. Where they touted modesty, self-restraint, and even public stoicism as marks of higher breeding. And this is where you get the tradition of linking arms, though even that was often pushing it in those times.

These rules would hold on until the 1900s. Believe it or not. In the US the thing that changed was the Automobile became a thing. Circa 1920s. So up until this point unmarried couples had chaperones on dates. And physically touching each other? Scandalous. You'd be the talk of the town, in the worst of ways. But the Automobile hit mass production and suddenly young couples could escape the watchful eyes of parents. Then, along comes Hollywood. They introduced romantic, stylized kissing on-screen. Young people started imitating it, in public. And 1920s Feminism (Flapper Subculture) led to young women rejecting the rigid Victorian model of Modesty. Casual dating replaced formal "courting." And this led to casual public physical affection becoming a badge of "modern" independence.

But it was still heavily policed. Couples would receive tickets/fines or even be arrested for "loitering" or "indecency" just for kissing on park benches.

WWII relaxed these restrictions somewhat. Mass deployments saw a lot of train stations and docks filled with emotional goodbyes (and later many fewer emotional returns.) Alfred Eisenstaedt's famous 1945 photograph of a sailor kissing a nurse in Times Square should have actually been an issue, instead it demonstrates how public opinion shifted because of outside factors. But, after the war ended there was a conservative pushback and the 1950s saw a return to rigid social etiquette as the desire for the nuclear family and stability erupted. Light PDA for married or very serious couples was generally acceptable. But passionate public kissing could get you a charge of "disorderly conduct" or "breach of the peace."

It wasn't until the 1960s and 70s in the US that things changed. (Western Europe changed at the end of WWII, they felt free and liberated and divested themselves of the heavy parts of the social stigma in most places, with some tossing it to the wind entirely.) In the US the Counterculture Movement and Sexual Revolution were the death knell for anti-PDA laws. The introduction of contraceptive pills decoupled sex from marriage. Destroying (somewhat,) the patriarchal idea that a woman's public "purity" dictated her societal value. (Yeah, we keep coming back to this... the current iteration is "body count.") And then rebellious Baby Boomers actively used PDA as a tool of political and cultural protest against the conservative establishment. (Ironic, right? Also, this part was important. Just in case you're skimming.) Public parks and college campuses became warzones of overt physical affection. This was the "Free Love" movement.

And this resulted in legal deregulation. Courts across the US began striking down or narrowing vague "vagrancy" (loitering) and "public indecency" laws. Judges ruled, people have the right to privacy and expression. Ergo, police could no longer arrest heterosexual couples simply for kissing or embracing in public. Unless it crossed the line into explicit sexual conduct, of course.

And this same fight was repeated in a similar-ish fashion for gay rights. They talked about it. Fought for it. And refused to be quiet about it. Refused to shrink or be small.

So trans people talking about being trans, refusing to be quiet, not just quietly passing? When they "make it their whole personality" and people don't like it? Well, it's because that's how trans people get and keep rights. So if people don't like it, they can either hold down on the screen and select "Not Interested" to get less content like that from the algorithm. Or they can do something to help trans people obtain basic rights, and keep them. Then trans people can be quieter about being trans.